Platform numbering schemes at stations

[Falcon1200]

The difference is that in Glasgow, some destinations can be reached from both HL and LL platforms, and I think the signalling is integrated.

Glasgow Central High Level is controlled from the West of Scotland Signalling Centre (SC), Queen Street High Level from Edinburgh SC, but the Low Level lines at both are controlled by Yoker SC.

The Platform 0 debate is interesting, and the reasons for not wanting to interfere with existing platform numbering understandable, yet a few years ago at Oxford the Up and Down through platforms, which had been 1 and 2 since time immemorial, were renumbered 3 and 4, so that the north end bays could become 1 and 2. Why the bays could not simply have been 3 and 4 is a mystery, to me anyway.

 

[BrianW]

'Googling' on <platform numbering> took me to this: https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/157724-sequence-of-platform-numbering/
Lots of fine examples there too ...

 

[plugwash]

RealtimeTrains shows a Platform L at Liverpool Lime St for the Merseyrail trains in the basement (NRE departure boards calls it Platform A).

Realtimetrains seems to be inconsistent with itself! It seems to use "L" for trains that have departed but "A" for trains that have yet to depart!

 

[jamesst]

RealtimeTrains shows a Platform L at Liverpool Lime St for the Merseyrail trains in the basement (NRE departure boards calls it Platform A).
But there is no signage to that effect anywhere, and none at all when you reach the one-way single Merseyrail platform - just a map of the Wirral Line network.
The signalling systems for high level and low level stations are not linked, but there is a Merseyrail departures panel inset on the high level departure board.

There's a broadly similar setup at Glasgow Central and Queen St, but the low level platforms there are integrated into the main line station PIS.
The difference is that in Glasgow, some destinations can be reached from both HL and LL platforms, and I think the signalling is integrated.
(Though at Lime St, Chester is now reachable on through trains from both HL and LL platforms).

To complicate it more the low level platform at Liverpool Lime Street actually now has Platform A boards at the furthest ends of the platform. However the signs on the tunnel wall facing the platform still call it Platform 1...

 

[181]

Brescia is one, where I got caught out waiting on platform 1N (or what ever) for the Edolo train from the North platform 1

I spent a few minutes waiting on the wrong platform at Ancona before someone spotted me and directed me to the right one. Presumably I must have looked like a lost tourist.

 

[Dryce]

Thinking from the passenger point of view, which system is the easiest to understand? Is there a need for a national “standard” of some kind, or doesn’t it matter as long as signage is clear?

Signage is the critical thing.

Waverley is an example of a complex station that has had more than one try at getting it right as regards numbering and is still confusing - particularly when it's busy.

You could argue a number of different schemes. Each will have issues.

Platforms aren't the nly layout / numbering issue - again Waverley is an example where the nature of the concourse and the central building are confusing. When Waverley was renumbered it might have worked better to demolish everything in the central area of the station and create a single large open ground level concourse plus perimeter mezanine with distinct and ordered exits to the different platform groups.

 

[edwin_m]

Signage is the critical thing.

Waverley is an example of a complex station that has had more than one try at getting it right as regards numbering and is still confusing - particularly when it's busy.

You could argue a number of different schemes. Each will have issues.

Platforms aren't the nly layout / numbering issue - again Waverley is an example where the nature of the concourse and the central building are confusing. When Waverley was renumbered it might have worked better to demolish everything in the central area of the station and create a single large open ground level concourse plus perimeter mezanine with distinct and ordered exits to the different platform groups.

Agree signage is most important. You could name the platforms after fruit if you like, just as long as people were directed using clear names or symbols.

I agree Waverley was bad when I last visited, that was seven or eight years ago now so it may have changed. I don't think the heritage people would have liked your suggestion though! Also most people probably arrive direct from one of the street entrances and want to go direct to their platform, most of which don't involve going near the central building.

I think a lot of the problem with Birmingham New Street is that they have huge platform numbers at the head of the escalators, but these are visible right across the concourse and if you head directly for one you often find as you get nearer that there is a much less visible glass wall in the way, and you need to backtrack by a much less obvious route to find the ticket barrier.

 

[mangyiscute]

I personally think that the new platform numbering at Reading is an example of perfect numbering - 1-3 as westwards bay platforms, 4-6 as eastward bay platforms and then 7-15 are the through platforms all in a very clear order and with A and B sides. Since the platforms are in order its very clear to see that if you are on say platform 10, to go to a lower numbered platform you head one way and to go to a higher numbered platform you head the other way

 

[DorkingMain]

Bournemouth has the long platform on the down, split into 3 / 4. The two platforms are actually signalled as two separate sections, with their own starting signal in both directions.

Stratford has some confusing examples - Platform 4a and 4b are two separate platforms, but both bays facing in the same direction. 3a and 3b are two platforms on either side of the same set of track. And then 10a and 10 are two different platforms entirely.

 

[BeijingDave]

Bournemouth has the long platform on the down, split into 3 / 4. The two platforms are actually signalled as two separate sections, with their own starting signal in both directions.

Stratford has some confusing examples - Platform 4a and 4b are two separate platforms, but both bays facing in the same direction. 3a and 3b are two platforms on either side of the same set of track. And then 10a and 10 are two different platforms entirely.

As far as I know Bournemouth isn't the same as Chester though. Bournemouth's long platform is largely used as two separate platforms as it is very long. Chester's has a scissors crossing in the middle but is frequently used as a single platform '3' (for example, for diesel-dragged Pendolinos to the North Wales coast).

 

[Western 52]

I personally think that the new platform numbering at Reading is an example of perfect numbering - 1-3 as westwards bay platforms, 4-6 as eastward bay platforms and then 7-15 are the through platforms all in a very clear order and with A and B sides. Since the platforms are in order its very clear to see that if you are on say platform 10, to go to a lower numbered platform you head one way and to go to a higher numbered platform you head the other way

Yes I agree. Of course there was an opportunity to arrange the layout neatly as part of the very expensive rebuild. Most stations retain legacy layouts so are not so lucky.

In my view numbering needs to be kept simple as far as possible with very good directional signage. Ideally some form of national standard is needed especially for long platforms and bays.

 

[Western Sunset]

Re Bournemouth.
Platform 3 is the main down platform and can accommodate x2 5-car 444s easily. Plat 4 is generally only used when the whole service is split into separate Waterloo - B'mth and B'mth - Weymouth sections when SWR has a special timetable in place.

 

[DorkingMain]

Re Bournemouth.
Platform 3 is the main down platform and can accommodate x2 5-car 444s easily. Plat 4 is generally only used when the whole service is split into separate Waterloo - B'mth and B'mth - Weymouth sections when SWR has a special timetable in place.

If I remember correctly, there's a 5-car 444 booked to stop on Plat 4 in the evenings, as a XC train arrives on top of it and turns back ECS.

 

[Bessie]

In old NSE territory is it the case at most traditional 2 platform stations that platform 1 is for London bound services and platform 2 is for country services (away from London).

 

[norbitonflyer]

In most stations the main buildings are close to platform 1, or the lowest numbered through platform if there are bays on that side. This may be because that is the "up" side where trains to the nearest large city / junction with the main line depart from, and therefore the one from which most passengers are travelling from, as they need more facilities - waiting rooms, ticket issuing,etc - the opposite platform needs much less in the way of facilities as most passengers are alighting, and just want to leave the station as soon as possible. Some stations are the other way round though, with the main buildings and platform1 on the down side, often because the approach from the town centre is on that side (e.g Newark Northgate)

Lincoln is an interesting example as when it was built in the 1840s the route to London was to the east, via Boston, main buildings and lowest numbered platforms were on the north side of the station. (There were four bays on that side so the main through platform was No5 - now No 3).The direct line to Grantham provided a more direct route to London, but also left to the east. That line closed in 1966 and London services were diverted to St Marks station via Newark, until that too closed in 1985, when London trains returned to Central, but now running to and from the west end of the station. Thus the main direction not only for London but services to Nottingham and Sheffield now all leave to the west. But despite a resignalling and renumbering, the platforms are still numbered from north to soiuth

In old NSE territory is it the case at most traditional 2 platform stations that platform 1 is for London bound services and platform 2 is for country services (away from London).

Kingston is an interesting exception. It opened as a terminus, with trains running via Twickenham to London.Although the line was extended to New Malden very soon afterwards, the line originally dived under the SWML (you can still see the twin underpasses, although only one is used now) and ran alongside it to Wimbledon, where trains continued via Tooting to join the LCDR (now Thameslink) route to Ludgate Hill.

So although Kingston was now a through station, the main London-bound platform was still seen as that via Twickenham. Even when the station was rebuilt in the 1930s the main buildings (waiting room, toilets, staff room) were on the Twickenham bound side, where they remain to this day, leaving the majority of Waterloo-bound passengers (via Wimbledon), waiting on Platform 3 with minimal waiting facilities and staff presence, and no toilets.

 

[Glenn1969]

Did Huddersfield station ever have a Platform 7? Think there is a carriage next to P2 that makes me think at some stage it had a P3 ?

 

[edwin_m]

In most stations the main buildings are close to platform 1, or the lowest numbered through platform if there are bays on that side. This may be because that is the "up" side where trains to the nearest large city / junction with the main line depart from, and therefore the one from which most passengers are travelling from, as they need more facilities - waiting rooms, ticket issuing,etc - the opposite platform needs much less in the way of facilities as most passengers are alighting, and just want to leave the station as soon as possible. Some stations are the other way round though, with the main buildings and platform1 on the down side, often because the approach from the town centre is on that side (e.g Newark Northgate)

Lincoln is an interesting example as when it was built in the 1840s the route to London was to the east, via Boston, main buildings and lowest numbered platforms were on the north side of the station. (There were four bays on that side so the main through platform was No5 - now No 3).The direct line to Grantham provided a more direct route to London, but also left to the east. That line closed in 1966 and London services were diverted to St Marks station via Newark, until that too closed in 1985, when London trains returned to Central, but now running to and from the west end of the station. Thus the main direction not only for London but services to Nottingham and Sheffield now all leave to the west. But despite a resignalling and renumbering, the platforms are still numbered from north to soiuth

Kingston is an interesting exception. It opened as a terminus, with trains running via Twickenham to London.Although the line was extended to New Malden very soon afterwards, the line originally dived under the SWML (you can still see the twin underpasses, although only one is used now) and ran alongside it to Wimbledon, where trains continued via Tooting to join the LCDR (now Thameslink) route to Ludgate Hill.

So although Kingston was now a through station, the main London-bound platform was still seen as that via Twickenham. Even when the station was rebuilt in the 1930s the main buildings (waiting room, toilets, staff room) were on the Twickenham bound side, where they remain to this day, leaving the majority of Waterloo-bound passengers (via Wimbledon), waiting on Platform 3 with minimal waiting facilities and staff presence, and no toilets.

Discounting stations with end or bridge entrances, I can't offhand think of anywhere the main entrance to a station is on the side further from the town centre, purely so that passengers on the busiest routes can depart without crossing the tracks (but no doubt someone will know of some!). If this happened, people from the town centre would have to cross the tracks to get to the entrance, and they would have to cross the tracks to exit when coming back again. Stations where the main departures are on the far side from the town centre will most likely have more facilities for departing passengers on those platforms, and maybe fewer in the main building.

In Lincoln for example the city centre is north of the remaining station. The old St Marks station, also south of the centre, appears to have a bigger building to the south side, but the entrance appears to be straight off and close to a level crossing, that doesn't make much difference to the walking distance to reach it.

 

[typefish]

Some countries use “track numbers,” which I assume includes sidings and through lines with no platform face, rather than platform numbers. I remember going to a suburban station in Berlin a few years ago where the signs on my platform said “32” despite the station only having 5 platforms.

There is also a different approach to one mentioned with numbers being grouped as to where about on the station the platforms are. For instance Grand Central Terminal in New York has tracks 11-42 on the upper level (although some numbers don’t have platforms), and 101-117 on the lower level.

Oranienburg Hbf?

 

[jfollows]

Did Huddersfield station ever have a Platform 7? Think there is a carriage next to P2 that makes me think at some stage it had a P3 ?

From 1988: a bay platform at the Leeds end on the up side

 

[YorksLad12]

Did Huddersfield station ever have a Platform 7? Think there is a carriage next to P2 that makes me think at some stage it had a P3 ?

Someone will correct me, but from memory: P1 was extended outwards over existing through track; that carriage is on the old P2, the new one being created when the through track was cut off by the platform extending. P3 was on the eastern side of P1 but was used for services towards Fenay Bridge and Kirkburton. P7 wasn't much of a platform, but can be seen next to P8 when you aproach from the west. It's barely one carriage long, if that.

 

[jfollows]

See here: Huddersfield Railway Station | RailUK Forums

IIIC, platform 3 was a short eastern-facing bay at the end of platform 1, and, as you summise, platform 7 was a very, very short western-facing bay in the 4/8 island.

From a link in that thread:48A 1958 (oriented with south at the top just to confuse a little!)

 

[Meerkat]

Discounting stations with end or bridge entrances, I can't offhand think of anywhere the main entrance to a station is on the side further from the town centre,

Woking has the main entrance on the side furthest from the town centre, but thats more to do with the town getting built on the wrong side rather than the station!

 

[coppercapped]

Discounting stations with end or bridge entrances, I can't offhand think of anywhere the main entrance to a station is on the side further from the town centre, purely so that passengers on the busiest routes can depart without crossing the tracks (but no doubt someone will know of some!). If this happened, people from the town centre would have to cross the tracks to get to the entrance, and they would have to cross the tracks to exit when coming back again. Stations where the main departures are on the far side from the town centre will most likely have more facilities for departing passengers on those platforms, and maybe fewer in the main building.

In Lincoln for example the city centre is north of the remaining station. The old St Marks station, also south of the centre, appears to have a bigger building to the south side, but the entrance appears to be straight off and close to a level crossing, that doesn't make much difference to the walking distance to reach it.

Reading was mentioned in an earlier post but Brunel's original pair of Up and Down stations were both built on the town side for this reason. In 1838 the land between the railway embankment and the Thames was essentially flood plain and water meadow - there were only a few buildings along the Caversham Road to the bridge to Caversham and Oxfordshire - so the main business was to the south, Reading's centre being on the Kennet crossing rather than the Thames.

This arrangement lasted until the serious rebuild in the 1890s.

 

[norbitonflyer]

In Lincoln for example the city centre is north of the remaining station. The old St Marks station, also south of the centre, appears to have a bigger building to the south side, but the entrance appears to be straight off and close to a level crossing, that doesn't make much difference to the walking distance to reach it.

The main entrance to St Marks was on the north side. The station was actually built as a terminus, and operated as such for most of its life, as the link built by the MS&LR from there to Pelham Street junction saw relatively little use until the closure of the East Lincolnshire Line in 1970 saw London to Grimsby trains diverted via Newark. Right up until it closed, passengers for Newark and London had to cross the tracks on the level to reach platform 2 if their train had come through from Grimsby - trains turning back at St Marks almost always used platform 1

 

[stuu]

Discounting stations with end or bridge entrances, I can't offhand think of anywhere the main entrance to a station is on the side further from the town centre, purely so that passengers on the busiest routes can depart without crossing the tracks (but no doubt someone will know of some!). If this happened, people from the town centre would have to cross the tracks to get to the entrance, and they would have to cross the tracks to exit when coming back again. Stations where the main departures are on the far side from the town centre will most likely have more facilities for departing passengers on those platforms, and maybe fewer in the main building.

Taunton gained a new ticket office in the 1980s which is on the far side from the town centre and the older station building. It did make sense as that is the side where trains going east/north go from, which is where most departing passengers are heading.

Now been rebuilt again with another entrance on the town centre side

 

[norbitonflyer]

With regards to terminus stations like Piccadilly and Lime St, numbering from left to right as you approach the platforms from the concourse is the obvious thing to do.

Unfortunately Euston at t'other end is the opposite!

Euston, like Kings Cross and Marylebone, was built with room for expansion to the west so it was logical to number platforms from east to west to allow for such expansion. Originally it was planned the GWR would use the other half of the land bought at Euston but Brunel decided to build his own station instead. Unfortunately, the LNWR built a set of buildings, including such as its "Great Hall" in the gap between the two halves, which led to a very awkward layout when it extended Euston westwards for its own purposes and why, in the rebuild of the 1960s, the Great Hall had to go.

Fenchurch Street is also numbered from right to left. As far as I recall all other London termini are left to right.

Discounting stations with end or bridge entrances, I can't offhand think of anywhere the main entrance to a station is on the side further from the town centre, purely so that passengers on the busiest routes can depart without crossing the tracks

The aforementioned layout at Kingston does have the main entrance facing south, towards the town centre, but the geography of Kingston does make this awkward. Most regular commuters from the station live north of the town centre (if you live south of the Town centre you will be nearer Surbiton, with its faster and more frequent services). Consequently most people starting a journey from Kingston (as distinct from returning home from working or shopping in Kingston) find the entrance and ticket issuing facilities on the wrong side of the station, and have to pass under the tracks to reach the entrance (and a second time if they want a London-bound train).
People alighting from a train, or returning home from working or shopping in Kingston, have no need to buy a ticket as they will already have one.
There is an entrance on the north side, but it is never open - in fact Kingston, despite being the busiest station on the Loop, is the only one with a single entrance. Neither SWT (who actually redesigned the station some years ago to move the entrance further away from the Richmond Road) nor SWR have given a convincing explanation for this omission

 

[gazr]

The aforementioned layout at Kingston does have the main entrance facing south, towards the town centre, but the geography of Kingston does make this awkward. Most regular commuters from the station live north of the town centre (if you live south of the Town centre you will be nearer Surbiton, with its faster and more frequent services). Consequently most people starting a journey from Kingston (as distinct from returning home from working or shopping in Kingston) find the entrance and ticket issuing facilities on the wrong side of the station, and have to pass under the tracks to reach the entrance (and a second time if they want a London-bound train).
People alighting from a train, or returning home from working or shopping in Kingston, have no need to buy a ticket as they will already have one.
There is an entrance on the north side, but it is never open - in fact Kingston, despite being the busiest station on the Loop, is the only one with a single entrance. Neither SWT (who actually redesigned the station some years ago to move the entrance further away from the Richmond Road) nor SWR have given a convincing explanation for this omission

Regarding Kingston, I'd imagine they have the one entrance to avoid fair dodgers and having to pay for another gateline and staff to man it. Also, the main entrance used to lead to the bus garage/station that was directly opposite where the cinema now is.

 

[vlad]

Discounting stations with end or bridge entrances, I can't offhand think of anywhere the main entrance to a station is on the side further from the town centre, purely so that passengers on the busiest routes can depart without crossing the tracks (but no doubt someone will know of some!).

St Albans City is one, where the main entrance is on the east of the station but the city centre is to the west. You can argue Stoke-on-Trent is another, as the main entrance is to the north but Stoke itself is to the south. Stoke, however, has the problem that there's a canal just to the south of the railway line that complicates things, plus you can argue it's not the station for the small town of Stoke but the main station for the whole area - if the NSR had decided that all its lines were going to meet somewhere else then the main station would have been there instead.

 

[JRT]

Bradford Forster Square and Bradford Interchange are both numbered right to left as passengers approach the barriers.
Stations on the original Leeds–Manchester line (via Brighouse) are mostly numbered with platform 1 as the Manchester-bound platform.
In Poland, an island platform will have a number for the whole platform (peron), with a number for each track (tor) either side.