Given that Euro standards for non-road mobile machinery only go up to V (introduced 2019-2020, note use of roman numeral), it'd be surprising if they were euro 6
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Porterbrook Cl.769 'Flex' trains from 319s, initially for Northern
- Thread starter pemma
- Start date
Given that Euro standards for non-road mobile machinery only go up to V (introduced 2019-2020, note use of roman numeral), it'd be surprising if they were euro 6
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R
RailUK Forums
There man truck engines fyi roman numeral or not lol
Translation: they're Euro VI for truck and bus engines, not non-road.
Pedantry alert: no, it actually should have been a semi-colon, colon or a full-stop; a comma would be poor syntax.
edwin_m
Veteran Member
Full stop isn't hyphenated...Pedantry alert: no, it actually should have been a semi-colon, colon or a full-stop; a comma would be poor syntax.
Grumpy Git
On Moderation
Be a bugger if it's only a RTFM problem!
I've a horrible feeling you're probably right......Full stop isn't hyphenated...
Wyrleybart
Established Member
Apologies and thanks for the correction "Greybeard". That explains it perfectly.
Wherever would we be if DfT didn't keep changing their plans !!!
Taking a random look at the Southport-Alderley Edge service yesterday on Real Time Trains, it seems that the 769s have settled down and are delivering reasonable reliability. There are of course the occasional delays, but far fewer withdrawls, and the red entries in RTT seem to be as much oagainst sprinter runs as 769s. Does this view through RTT represent activities on the ground anybody?
childwallblues
Established Member
There appears to be six out today, only 424 and 442 having at rest.
175001
Established Member
A simple switch off and on seems to do the trick on most faults these days
That's encouraging news for all three areas where their various sub-classes are being rolled out into service.
175001
Established Member
It isn't ideal. An ideal world is a fault free unit. But currently we don't live in an ideal world..
There's no such thing as an ideal world anyway. If drivers can keep them on their diagrams by giving them occasional resets, it means that the residual faults are probably fixable.
Jamesrob637
Established Member
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06:17 Southport to Alderley Edge was heavily delayed yesterday (I usually see it at Oxford Road when I'm getting off my train) however I don't believe that was to do with the train itself. Most other days I've seen it recently, it has produced a 769 and not crappy 2-car diesel unit.
It seems that the 769s are delivering the service that was intended. Essentially, they should be OK as the biggest source of unreliability on straight DMUs, the diesel engine, on the 769s is a) new build, and b) a well proven rail prime power source. The rest of the drive train is inherently stable and 30 year old DC traction motors have operating lives in excess of 50 years with regular maintenance. The connecting hardware and software isn't rocket science, and failures there seem to be minor design issues that will be snagged with regular use.
Most interesting are the posts here commenting that when on diesel, the 760s, despite being heavier, make not much more noise than 319s and certainly nowhere near as much thrash as their lighter siblings the class 150s or 156s!
Most interesting are the posts here commenting that when on diesel, the 760s, despite being heavier, make not much more noise than 319s and certainly nowhere near as much thrash as their lighter siblings the class 150s or 156s!
Last post shows lack of knowledge on the ground.
In the 2 1/2 months since the introduction of the new timetable there are 6 diagrams for the 769's from the pool of 8 units. On 17 days only (including 3 in the last week) have 6 units started the day, and there have been numerous days when the 6 that started the day haven't finished it. Its a good job that Northern have some DMU's able to cover as otherwise the services to Southport would have been shambolic (although DMU's covering tend to be 2 cars/shortformed). Over the last week has been fairly good though with availabilty of 3,5,6,6,6,5 (Mon-Sat - no diagrams on a Sunday), on the worst week 3,3,1,1,1,1 - although I understand that Network Rail have now issued an instruction that at least 2 must be available for rescue purposes.
In the 2 1/2 months since the introduction of the new timetable there are 6 diagrams for the 769's from the pool of 8 units. On 17 days only (including 3 in the last week) have 6 units started the day, and there have been numerous days when the 6 that started the day haven't finished it. Its a good job that Northern have some DMU's able to cover as otherwise the services to Southport would have been shambolic (although DMU's covering tend to be 2 cars/shortformed). Over the last week has been fairly good though with availabilty of 3,5,6,6,6,5 (Mon-Sat - no diagrams on a Sunday), on the worst week 3,3,1,1,1,1 - although I understand that Network Rail have now issued an instruction that at least 2 must be available for rescue purposes.
There have been quite a few posts here trumpeting 'yet another 769 not completing its diagram' only to be discounted by other posters (sometimes bearing information about why services actually went wrong when it was an infrastructure failure or a non-769 failure. Maybe we could be better informed if there was a diary of their performance showing the actual reasons why they are being withdrawn rather than a conclusion based on RTT data alone.
I’ve rarely seen anything other than “The service is cancelled between Bolton and Southport due to a problem with the traction equipment”
When I've been on 769s that have failed, it’s usually when travelling towards Southport, rather than towards Manchester, but I went on one once to Victoria that got there from Southport perfectly on time without a fault and then the engines wouldn’t start to get to Stalybridge.
Has one ever failed when running under the wires?
chiltern trev
Member
Where are the spare units stabled during the day?
If traction unit problems at Bolton, heading to Southport, are the most common, perhaps stablibg a spare unit at Bolton, in a readily accessible location, would be beneficial.
6/8 means 75% availability and the 2 'not in service or spare' units are both at Allerton, which at the nearest failure point is 20 miles away and 50+ at the furthest, which makes it not particularly easy to get replacements in/out of traffic at short notice. I can understand the comment about using RTT data, but my experience 'on the ground', and also many conversations with staff, ex-staff and those in the know give me a good idea of what is happening. There have been several cases of staff unfamiliarity, several cases of loss of traction (particularly on diesel), and there appear to be few points to recover when things go wrong. The last poster suggests stabling a unit at Bolton, fine but there are these days very few loops/sidings in this part of the network. Possibly one at SP (preferably a fit one) would be better, but depends on 'spare' staff, of which there are very few.
chiltern trev
Member
As "although I understand that Network Rail have now issued an instruction that at least 2 must be available for rescue purposes", I was going to suggest maybe Network Rail should re-instate a centre line at Bolton station but looking at Google maps you cannot due to the siting of OLE masts.
As the units are maintained at Allerton, do serviceable spare units actually sit at Allerton all day when not in use? Would it not be better to move serviceable spare units to somewhere on the Southport to Manchester route, e.g. spare platform at Southport or one of the sidings just outside.
When it comes to ECS type moves, is it possible to perform a 2 set (8 cars) or 3 set (12 car move)?
As the units are maintained at Allerton, do serviceable spare units actually sit at Allerton all day when not in use? Would it not be better to move serviceable spare units to somewhere on the Southport to Manchester route, e.g. spare platform at Southport or one of the sidings just outside.
When it comes to ECS type moves, is it possible to perform a 2 set (8 cars) or 3 set (12 car move)?
1 at Allerton on maintenance, 1 at Allerton spare - all diagrams are supposed to rotate, but last week (for example) 769424 didn't work all week, and 769458 worked one day, with 769431/34/50 working all 6 days. It's a question at present of what is fit. Best place to keep a spare would be in the Wigan area (either SP or Wigan Wallgate sidings).
Could in theory perform an 8 car rescue, but 12..........this ain't the south!
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Jamesrob637
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There was an 8-car working Friday but only because one got cancelled and towed to Southport to begin its respective return working.
Nothing booked to stand at Bolton, could have been the one that does the Southport-Stalybridge which is affected by works at Miles Platting for the next two weeks.
175001
Established Member
It was binned at Bolton on Saturday due to a failure
Thanks - pure coincidence then.
Jamesrob637
Established Member
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The 16:17 Southport to Alderley Edge today isn't a 769 but it is 4-car!