Preston Trams Discussion

[LancasterRed]

Preston’s test tramline could be back on track

The route for the Preston Trampower Guild Line A planning application has been submitted to use the old railway in Skeffington Road in Ribbleton as a test t

www.blogpreston.co.uk

A planning application has been submitted to use the old railway in Skeffington Road in Ribbleton as a test tramline.

More of the old railway line becoming clear near the West View Leisure Centre
Permission was granted in November 2016 for the test line to be installed through the city. If successful it would lead to another line from Bluebell Way to just short of the city centre.

Last year work was derailed on the line in Deepdale due to an extension to a chicken processing plant.

Work had already begun on the stretch of line but is understood to have been delayed due to legal disputes over land ownership,
however work continued on the Deepdale section three months ago.

The tram testline is set to connect from a Park and Ride at the M6 to the station, passing through Deepdale and Ribbleton before ending at Preston Station.

While not stated in this article, there are no longer any obstacles for Preston Trampower and this should finally begin. I do believe this implementation is necessary due to capacity constraints across Preston.

It's taken long enough...

 

[Bald Rick]

Who’s paying?

 

[mikeg]

Who cares if it's good value for money and provides net benefits?

 

[Bald Rick]

Who cares if it's good value for money and provides net benefits?

Well whoever is asked to build it might want to know who is paying their bills, otherwise they won’t bother.

 

[edwin_m]

Who cares if it's good value for money and provides net benefits?

Essentially you are saying it's going to cover its operating costs and pay off its capital, something virtually no rail scheme has done since Victorian times (and sometimes not even then).

 

[rebmcr]

Essentially you are saying it's going to cover its operating costs and pay off its capital, something virtually no rail scheme has done since Victorian times (and sometimes not even then).

Metrolink Phases 1 & 2 did, and I believe Phase 3 is well on its way.

 

[PR1Berske]

I have never agreed with this crackpot waste of effort farce and never will.

The route is inadequate. The route is already served by buses. Preston is too small for expansion. There is no valid economic reason or justification beyond "it looks like Manchester."

The TramSham Folly will connect nobody to nowhere and have no place to go afterwards.

It deserves to fail and I know it will.

Who cares if it's good value for money and provides net benefits?And

Because it's not and it won't.

The planned route is an urban sprawl already served by, on my reckoning, a dozen buses. Preston has narrow terraced streets which are already full of buses going a few miles to and from town. Trams offer no new destinations, no new expansions, no new opportunities.

The route takes people who already have transport options along a straight line to the middle of town, where all the buses already meet.

This whole affair has dragged on because one company is desperate to make their CGI pipe dream a reality. The council don't support it, the public don't want it, and after Covid, I doubt the accountants would recommend it.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I don't think this will succeed either, but I do think Preston is a similar size to a typical small European city that would have a street tram network, and therefore I'd love to see a proper one built there.

 

[PR1Berske]

I don't think this will succeed either, but I do think Preston is a similar size to a typical small European city that would have a street tram network, and therefore I'd love to see a proper one built there.

Had we got wide streets with broad corners and junctions, had we more than just two river crossings, had we fewer narrow terraced streets, had we not been lumbered by a silly "ringway" through the city centre, then maybe we could think about considering suggesting the possibility of maybe dreaming about being a European city.

But we're not big enough, wide enough, economically strong enough, or particularly well connected to the region, to justify a single inch of trams.

I know Preston. I know it very well. Trams won't work.

 

[Roose]

Preston is too small for expansion.

I can understand somewhere being too big for expansion - but too small???

 

[WatcherZero]

Prestons really not a large city, 120,000 people makes the city about the same size as Blackburn, Rochdale or Colchester and then theres a couple of satellite towns like Chorley, Euxton and Leyland with Chorley being practically the same population as Preston proper.

 

[Busaholic]

Prestons really not a large city, 120,000 people makes the city about the same size as Blackburn, Rochdale or Colchester and then theres a couple of satellite towns like Chorley, Euxton and Leyland with Chorley being practically the same population as Preston proper.

My late father-in-law, Preston through and through from birth in the First World War, would never accept that Preston had been elevated to city status and used to snort with exasperation when newspaper and TV reports used the city word in relation to Preston. He could be heard to matter on occasion ''so where's the cathedral then?'' even though, as an intelligent and educated man, he knew that wasn't an absolute defining characteristic of city status.

 

[Roose]

As you say, the presence of a cathedral is irrelevant (the city of York gets be quite nicely without, for example) but perhaps your late father-in-law may now rest easily knowing that the former Saint Ignatius church is now a cathedral.

 

[py_megapixel]

the city of York gets be quite nicely without, for example

Umm.... York has one of the largest cathedrals in the country.

 

[Bald Rick]

Umm.... York has one of the largest cathedrals in country.

That, dear boy, is a Minster.

 

[py_megapixel]

That, dear boy, is a Minster.

https://yorkminster.org/ - the official website of York Minster - states that "York Minster is one of the world’s most magnificent cathedrals."

 

[rebmcr]

https://yorkminster.org/ - the official website of York Minster - states that "York Minster is one of the world’s most magnificent cathedrals."

That would be an Ecumenical matter.

 

[Leyther]

Preston may not have a cathedral.
It does have a minster!

The parish church is known as Preston Minster.

No obvious clearance work has been undertaken either side of the deepdale mill street crossing

 

[GRALISTAIR]

As a Prestonian ex pat I would love to see this but highly doubt it will happen.

 

[DB]

Umm.... York has one of the largest cathedrals in the country.

Indeed it does!

And I can even define the terms here (it's not clear to anyone who doesn't know).

So far as the Church of England is concerned (and various others, but it's the CofE which is relevant here) a cathedral is the 'head' church of a diocese, which is an adminstrative area - there are 42 of these in England (there is one diocese which has three cathedrals due to three dioceses being amalgamated a few years ago but quite probably there will be downgradings at some point). The cathedral contains the bishop's throne (the bishop is the head of the diocese), although the bishop will normally have little involvement in the day to day running of the cathedral.

Minster is a more vague term, which did normally mean an ancient missionary centre until a few years ago. More recently the CofE has taken to calling the main church in various (without cathedral) large towns and cities 'Minster' - it's just bigging them up effectively, and unike cathedral has no clearly defined function.

It used to be the case that having a CofE cathedral defined a city, but they have been created by royal charter for a long time now, and there are actually a couple of cathedrals which aren't in cities.

And in the case of York, although it is normally referred to as York Minster it is also a cathedral.

 

[geoffk]

Preston may not have a cathedral.
It does have a minster!

The parish church is known as Preston Minster.

No obvious clearance work has been undertaken either side of the deepdale mill street crossing

Blackburn has a cathedral but isn't a city.

 

[6Gman]

Blackburn has a cathedral but isn't a city.

Nor a tram project.

(To get this thread back on topic.)

 

[TheGrew]

Having a quick look at the proposed route I am don't think it really covers enough distance to make it worthwhile. I think it could be interesting if they extended the line out as far as Longridge. Most of the original alignment seems to exist (though I suspect as a cycle path).

 

[LancasterRed]

Having a quick look at the proposed route I am don't think it really covers enough distance to make it worthwhile. I think it could be interesting if they extended the line out as far as Longridge. Most of the original alignment seems to exist (though I suspect as a cycle path).

Not really. This takes most of the passengers from services 1, 1A, 8 and 14 while also linking a high potential Park and Ride with quick access into the city.

The 1, 1A and 8 are notorious for overcrowding and the 14 notorious for being badly treated despite its importance. It will also double as a match-day shuttle to the football which will prove its worth.

The route SHOULD go to Longridge I agree, but as a first phase this is fine. An eventual extension to an "M55 Parkway" would do similar to the West of Preston, which would be massively beneficial if a route could be devised. Although at this point you're looking at going underground if you want to serve anywhere notable between the docks and the motorway.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The route SHOULD go to Longridge I agree, but as a first phase this is fine. An eventual extension to an "M55 Parkway" would do similar to the West of Preston, which would be massively beneficial if a route could be devised. Although at this point you're looking at going underground if you want to serve anywhere notable between the docks and the motorway.

Conveniently, the "underground" bit already exists, though it would be hugely more expensive to bring that all back into use than to build a street tramway.

Preston and Longridge Railway - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Edit: interestingly it seems Trampower have proposed using it in an earlier incarnation of this scheme.

 

[swanhill41]

Just checked out website...Hmmm!.....Day dreamer comes to mind...Contact is private address...I live Fleetwood,and know that the person has so called been ready to do this project for last 20 years ...The phrase Walter Mitty comes to mind...I might totally wrong,but .....?

 

[GRALISTAIR]

Having a quick look at the proposed route I am don't think it really covers enough distance to make it worthwhile. I think it could be interesting if they extended the line out as far as Longridge. Most of the original alignment seems to exist (though I suspect as a cycle path).

And if not Longridge at least as far as Grimsargh. Quite a lot of housing has gone up there in the last 20 years while I have been living in the USA. The spur to RedScar Works site would of course not be needed. I was surprised that John Southworth school got bulldozed to make way for a housing estate. My wife went to that school.

 

[30907]

And if not Longridge at least as far as Grimsargh. Quite a lot of housing has gone up there in the last 20 years while I have been living in the USA. The spur to RedScar Works site would of course not be needed. I was surprised that John Southworth school got bulldozed to make way for a housing estate. My wife went to that school.

The problem is that the M6 P+R (which a couple of years ago was totally unused) isn't next to the old railway route, whatever the promoter may imply. It would also need access from the north, which looks feasible but passive provision wasn't made when J31A was built.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

I forgot about Jct 31A

 

[30907]

I forgot about Jct 31A

Not the only one! - it just so happens that, prior to retirement, almost all the places in Preston I had cause to visit were best accessed that way, avoiding the inevitable snarl-up past the Deepdale retail parks. (Which, incidentally, I am not sure the tram will have much effect on.)