Progress of delivery of cascaded/refurbished/PRM modified stock to TFW/Wales and Borders

[ABB125]

Wasn’t there talk of TfW borrowing one of Scotland’s bike-carrying 153s, to test it out?

I wonder if they’re thinking of making some of their own. If you doubled up the units – a fully PRM 153 coupled to a PRM-lite 153 with the toilet removed but extra bike space instead – maybe they’d be a good fit for Heart of Wales and parts of west Wales, especially in summer.

Maybe you could call it a "class 155"?

 

[Cardiff123]

Th

Just for clarity. My lists may be out of date, but from what I have TfW currently have 13 PRM 153's and 13 non-prm 153's. Out of the non-prm ones only 153906 has had PRM lite work completed. So 26 units in total. Are the 4 latest ones still only temporary to cover 769 issues? These being 153918, 153968, 153972 and 153982.



This is the line that doesn't make sense. Are they only buying 8 of the remaining 9 (or 13) non-prm units? Why would they not keep and purchase the current PRM 153's instead of taking on more and having to spend on PRM mods. Also, why buy them and not continue to lease? Unless they have been given a deal they couldn't refuse.
What possible use could TfW have with 21 153's once the new fleet start arriving? The Pembroke Dock line would need 4 and the HOWL 3, maybe 4 if there's any intention of increasing services. I'm guessing the current PRM 153 fleet that is leased will be returned and they will retain the 8 latest editions as the on going 8 in the fleet to cover West Wales and HOWL. Given their reliability and occasional lone working, it will make failures a bit more of a nightmare.

Working out the numbers is getting confusing now I must admit. But I can't see TfW going back to routinely working single 153s anywhere in future, which explains why the 9 153s currently getting PRM mods won't be getting PRM toilets.

The 4 153s that were not originally planned to get any PRM mods were originally brought in at the end of last year to cover whilst the PRM light mods are carried out. I read on this forum those 4 now have dispensation to keep running until 31st Dec.
Tbh i'm sure RAIL or MR magazines will do a more detailed article on all of this in the coming weeks and months, as it seems TfW Rail's long term fleet strategy in terms of cascaded fleet is comprehensively being revised.

 

[Neptune]

Th

Working out the numbers is getting confusing now I must admit. But I can't see TfW going back to routinely working single 153s anywhere in future, which explains why the 9 153s currently getting PRM mods won't be getting PRM toilets.

The 4 153s that were not originally planned to get any PRM mods were originally brought in at the end of last year to cover whilst the PRM light mods are carried out. I read on this forum those 4 now have dispensation to keep running until 31st Dec.
Tbh i'm sure RAIL or MR magazines will do a more detailed article on all of this in the coming weeks and months, as it seems TfW Rail's long term fleet strategy in terms of cascaded fleet is comprehensively being revised.

If RAIL do an article on them take it with a pinch of salt!

 

[Anonymous10]

Maybe they're planning to double-up the HoW services, then leave Pembroke Dock to something else? Besides, I wouldn't have thought a single class 153 would be sufficient for Pembroke, especially in summer!

Pembroke is fine single in winter but spring and summer as proven this year can easily come close to filling a 2 car 153 id like a scotrail style luggage car (153) and 2 153s doubled up

Potentially, but there's not often you need more than 1 carriage.
Also the Pembroke Dock is only 2 diagrams, so the 4 would be 2 carriage sets working each. If they are keeping 8, they might as well keep more to boost capacity

might be planning to put service back to Swansea like it used to be before it changed to Carmarthen and make our services Finnish later again as now it finishes at 5:45

 

[St. Paddy]

Th

Working out the numbers is getting confusing now I must admit. But I can't see TfW going back to routinely working single 153s anywhere in future, which explains why the 9 153s currently getting PRM mods won't be getting PRM toilets.

The 4 153s that were not originally planned to get any PRM mods were originally brought in at the end of last year to cover whilst the PRM light mods are carried out. I read on this forum those 4 now have dispensation to keep running until 31st Dec.
Tbh i'm sure RAIL or MR magazines will do a more detailed article on all of this in the coming weeks and months, as it seems TfW Rail's long term fleet strategy in terms of cascaded fleet is comprehensively being revised.

There’s an article in the latest edition of Today’s Railways UK which states that the 9 153s TFW has bought are medium term cover for use on the Swansea to Shrewsbury route and the 4 you mention are included in the 9. These will be refurbished once the PRM lite program is completed and will include options for “active travel” similar to the Scotrail units

 

[PHILIPE]

Th

Working out the numbers is getting confusing now I must admit. But I can't see TfW going back to routinely working single 153s anywhere in future, which explains why the 9 153s currently getting PRM mods won't be getting PRM toilets.

There is still scope for single 153s because the 153 (Full PRM) will still outnumber the PRM Lites. There are currently three single diagrams used on the Heart of Wales

 

[43096]

There’s an article in the latest edition of Today’s Railways UK which states that the 9 153s TFW has bought are medium term cover for use on the Swansea to Shrewsbury route and the 4 you mention are included in the 9. These will be refurbished once the PRM lite program is completed and will include options for “active travel” similar to the Scotrail units

TfW Rail has bought 11 units from Angel: 153302/303/312/327/353/362/374/918/968/972/982.

Of that lot, 153302/374 are not in service/spares donors, which leaves 5 already PRM modified and three more to be fully PRM modified (based on what TfW have said about 8 sets being retained).

 

[animationmilo]

What will Cheltenham to Maesteg get when the 170s go?

 

[ABB125]

What will Cheltenham to Maesteg get when the 170s go?

Stadler diesels (can't remember the class number, sorry!)

 

[craigybagel]

Wasn’t there talk of TfW borrowing one of Scotland’s bike-carrying 153s, to test it out?

I wonder if they’re thinking of making some of their own. If you doubled up the units – a fully PRM 153 coupled to a PRM-lite 153 with the toilet removed but extra bike space instead – maybe they’d be a good fit for Heart of Wales and parts of west Wales, especially in summer.

There has indeed been that talk, which complicates things as 197s will not be compatible, and it's hard to see a need for the bike 153s just on the HOWL. That line gets lots of walkers, but certainly in my experience when I used to work it, not that many bike users.

There’s an article in the latest edition of Today’s Railways UK which states that the 9 153s TFW has bought are medium term cover for use on the Swansea to Shrewsbury route and the 4 you mention are included in the 9. These will be refurbished once the PRM lite program is completed and will include options for “active travel” similar to the Scotrail units

I'm assuming the reason TfW are talking about 8 153s for the HOWL is that they're replacing the planned 4 X 2 car 170s that were meant to be used on the combined HOWL and Crewe-Shrewsbury diagrams.

Clearly though, plans are changing, possibly even since the interview.

What will Cheltenham to Maesteg get when the 170s go?

Stadler diesels (can't remember the class number, sorry!)

Class 231

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Are Class 170s (bar the single unit already gone) staying with TfW until the Stadlers come, and going to EMR then? Or are they going now?

 

[sefyllian]

There has indeed been that talk, which complicates things as 197s will not be compatible, and it's hard to see a need for the bike 153s just on the HOWL. That line gets lots of walkers, but certainly in my experience when I used to work it, not that many bike users.

That’s interesting. I’ve only been on the line once, but had assumed it would attract lots of cyclists. I’m sure it could do if it was marketed well – but you’d need the cycle capacity in place first to do that of course.

Coincidentally, just saw this snippet in a BBC Wales report, which perhaps does suggest something along those lines:

A spokesman for Transport for Wales said: "We're currently in the process of refurbishing the Class 153 units that we use on the Heart of Wales Line, providing a better experience for our customers.

"We have plans to significantly improve provision for cyclists on trains on the route - we'll have more details on this soon.

"With regards to integration with bus services, we're working on plans to achieve this in the future, as part of the Welsh government's aspiration to create a more integrated public transport network."

 

[Neptune]

Of course if a 153 was to be converted for cyclists on the HoW then it doesn’t have to be half a coach like on the Scotrail units. It could be space for say 12 cycles with more seats than the SR units coupled to a full PRM 153.

 

[6Gtraincrew]

Of course if a 153 was to be converted for cyclists on the HoW then it doesn’t have to be half a coach like on the Scotrail units. It could be space for say 12 cycles with more seats than the SR units coupled to a full PRM 153.

24 seats, a standard CET toilet, wi-fi, power sockets and charging stations for e-bikes is the current idea.

 

[Caaardiff]

153909 headed to Landore this morning

 

[PHILIPE]

153909 headed to Landore this morning

And 153926 coming back having been dealt with

 

[Wyrleybart]

I wonder if they’re thinking of making some of their own. If you doubled up the units – a fully PRM 153 coupled to a PRM-lite 153 with the toilet removed but extra bike space instead – maybe they’d be a good fit for Heart of Wales and parts of west Wales, especially in summer.

Certainly a point to ponder. Perhaps the WAG have decided that Wales is a very tourist led economy and a lot more rolling stock is required during the holiday peaks as well as large sporting events in Cardiff, and maybe also the Eisteddfod in Llandrindod Wells. Only speculation on my part but perhaps Mark Drakeford is actually aligning a whole new national railway service on peaks and troughs in demand compared to the hithertoo franchised TOCs who are mostly able to cope with average pax numbers.

 

[PHILIPE]

Certainly a point to ponder. Perhaps the WAG have decided that Wales is a very tourist led economy and a lot more rolling stock is required during the holiday peaks as well as large sporting events in Cardiff, and maybe also the Eisteddfod in Llandrindod Wells. Only speculation on my part but perhaps Mark Drakeford is actually aligning a whole new national railway service on peaks and troughs in demand compared to the hithertoo franchised TOCs who are mostly able to cope with average pax numbers.

What Eisteddfod in Llandrindod Wells ?

 

[Caaardiff]

What Eisteddfod in Llandrindod Wells ?

I think Royal Welsh in Builth Wells

 

[PaulHarding150]

I assume the above reference is meant to refer to the Royal Welsh in Builth.

Keeping older stock as spares/extras for events and summer weekends isn’t a bad idea, especially as WG/TfW now seem to be moving towards owning units rather than leasing them.

Questions though, where would they live for the 300 days a years they’re not in use and TfW already has one of the most varied rolling stock sets going, the collection will only get wider and this will surely cause problems with keeping drivers trained on units wouldn’t it?

 

[Chorley Cake]

TfW Rail has bought 11 units from Angel: 153302/303/312/327/353/362/374/918/968/972/982.

Of that lot, 153302/374 are not in service/spares donors, which leaves 5 already PRM modified and three more to be fully PRM modified (based on what TfW have said about 8 sets being retained).

Do you know where 302 is currently ?

 

[NoMorePacers]

Do you know where 302 is currently ?

It's at Worksop Yard unless it's been moved recently.

 

[Chorley Cake]

It's at Worksop Yard unless it's been moved recently.

Thanks.

 

[animationmilo]

TfW Rail has bought 11 units from Angel: 153302/303/312/327/353/362/374/918/968/972/982.

Of that lot, 153302/374 are not in service/spares donors, which leaves 5 already PRM modified and three more to be fully PRM modified (based on what TfW have said about 8 sets being retained).

That doesnt make sense as 325, 329, 333, 361, 369 are also PRM modified. Maybe they'll have another 5 too?

 

[PHILIPE]

That doesnt make sense as 325, 329, 333, 361, 369 are also PRM modified. Maybe they'll have another 5 too?

Those together with 320, 323 and 367 are Porterbrook ones so they would still be leasing them. The ones they have bought are all Angel ones. Other Porterbrook but non PRM ones are 909, 910. 913.914, 922, 935. However, 906 and 926 are lite PRMd and 909 and 921 are currently receiving lite PRM Mods at Landore.

 

[Stephen Lee]

Does it mean the Class 170s will be stopgaps in TfW?

 

[Wyrleybart]

I think Royal Welsh in Builth Wells

Thanks for the correction.

 

[Stephen Lee]

No idea. You'll have to do what I have to do which is wait and see

Will it be the Class 153s displaced from WMR?

 

[Wyrleybart]

I assume the above reference is meant to refer to the Royal Welsh in Builth.

Keeping older stock as spares/extras for events and summer weekends isn’t a bad idea, especially as WG/TfW now seem to be moving towards owning units rather than leasing them.

Questions though, where would they live for the 300 days a years they’re not in use and TfW already has one of the most varied rolling stock sets going, the collection will only get wider and this will surely cause problems with keeping drivers trained on units wouldn’t it?

The tourist season tends to be May - September and football and Rugby are not so much in this period are they ? I am not perticularly interested in the various ball games in Wales, but pre pandemic there was a tendency to shift all the North Wales 150s down south and lay on bustitution. With a load of 153s for cover, the situation might be eased.

Presumably there are still staff and capacity at Landore seeing as most of the 142s and 143s passed through there in the last year or two.

 

[PHILIPE]

Will it be the Class 153s displaced from WMR?

See Post #1147