Quarantine

[Tetchytyke]

The point about you being trapped that I was making was that even when the rate does drop here, does not mean that your borders will be allowed to open up.

Our Chief Minister set out infection rates that would allow a further relaxation of the borders. We were well on the way to that, then the UK lost control again. Ah well.

 

[Domh245]

We were well on the way to that, then the UK lost control again. Ah well.

There lies one of the major issues with pursuing the elimination/strict quarantine plan - you're entirely at the mercy of what other countries decide to do. Given that the apparent majority of countries (particularly European ones) are taking a 'suppression' type approach, the elimination & strict quarantine approach becomes increasingly unworkable

 

[Steveoh]

There lies one of the major issues with pursuing the elimination/strict quarantine plan - you're entirely at the mercy of what other countries decide to do. Given that the apparent majority of countries (particularly European ones) are taking a 'suppression' type approach, the elimination & strict quarantine approach becomes increasingly unworkable

You are, but you buy yourself a lot of time to see what works best, you're in a much better position to introduce a vaccine (if we find one). There will come a point when a decision needs to be made but the IOM doesn't have to be making that decision at the moment. In the meantime the population has freedom we can only dream of. Why would they give that up whilst they can observe all the lessons from other countries about the best way to handle this (or not to repeat mistakes)?

 

[Domh245]

You are, but you buy yourself a lot of time to see what works best, you're in a much better position to introduce a vaccine (if we find one). There will come a point when a decision needs to be made but the IOM doesn't have to be making that decision at the moment. In the meantime the population has freedom we can only dream of. Why would they give that up whilst they can observe all the lessons from other countries about the best way to handle this (or not to repeat mistakes)?

You've only bought yourself time to see what works best if elimination does in fact turn out to be 'best', if the supress method turns out to be best (or at the very least, what the majority of countries adopt) all you've done is delay things, nobody in the country has natural immunity so as soon as you change tack it'll start spreading through the community again. As reported elsewhere, it's likely that (in the UK at least, with it's guaranteed stash of around 1.5 vaccine doses/member of the population) any vaccine will be only administered to healthcare workers & the vulnerable with the majority of people not receiving any vaccination, meaning that as far as Joe Public is concerned the only route to immunity is to catch it (or hope that enough of the rest of the population has it for herd immunity to come into effect) - at which point it doesn't matter what strategy a country has followed as all that's changed is when you get it, not if.

The population has freedom we can only dream of, but as I've said before, this is a marathon not a sprint. The IOM (as well as NZ) may be ahead right now, but when we revisit this in 6/12/24 months will that still be the case? We shall have to see. If in 24 months the 'eliminate & quarantine' countries are in a position where they have fully resumed normality (ie full international travel) at the same time as other countries and have avoided the large numbers of deaths we've seen, then I'll hold my hands up and admit they got it right.

 

[Mag_seven]

Today the dart in Shapps's office has landed on Italy. Anyone coming back from there who arrives in the UK after 04.00 on Sunday will have to quarantine for 14 days.

https://twitter.com/grantshapps/status/1316771752584806407

TRAVEL CORRIDOR UPDATE: We are REMOVING ITALY, Vatican City state & San Marino from the #TravelCorridor list. However, note that the implementation date is moved to 4am on SUNDAY 18 October & applies UK wide, if you arrive from these destinations you will need to self-isolate.

 

[SouthEastBuses]

Today the dart in Shapps's office has landed on Italy. Anyone coming back from there who arrives in the UK after 04.00 on Sunday will have to quarantine for 14 days.

https://twitter.com/grantshapps/status/1316771752584806407

Looks like I won't be able to go on holiday to Italy in December then

Anyway, kinda surprising that Grant Shapps decided to do 4am on Sunday rather than the usual 4am on Saturday.

 

[adc82140]

Today the dart in Shapps's office has landed on Italy. Anyone coming back from there who arrives in the UK after 04.00 on Sunday will have to quarantine for 14 days.

https://twitter.com/grantshapps/status/1316771752584806407

But Crete is off the quarantine list.

 

[Yew]

But the point is that pretending Covid doesn't exist, or pretending Covid doesn't kill a lot of people and permanently maim a lot more, doesn't solve those issues. "Living with Covid" may well mean some restrictions in the medium term,just as it did with Spanish Flu in 1918-1920.

But the latest estimates of IFR from the WHO suggest that:

Across 51 locations, the median COVID-19 infection fatality rate was 0.27% (corrected 0.23%)

That's remarkably close to the range of seasonal influenza. And the needlessly emotive "permanent maiming" you speak of seems to be broadly comparable to 'post viral fatigue" both in its prevalence and severity.

Overall being cautious in March was one thing, but we've shown that this isn't SARS, or the Spanish Flu, and also that it's incredibly costly to try and suppress it; therefore we need to adjust our approaches accordingly.

 

[Tetchytyke]

Anyway, kinda surprising that Grant Shapps decided to do 4am on Sunday rather than the usual 4am on Saturday.

Are there any senior Tories on holiday in Italy?

 

[SouthEastBuses]

Are there any senior Tories on holiday in Italy?

Not sure about this

 

[johnnychips]

Ignoring the overall stupidity of the policy, it is possible they realised that there were a significant number of flights departing on the Saturday, so they wanted to implement the policy without annoying too many people coming back from Italy who might vent their ire on Sky News.

This might be total rubbish, and no doubt an aviation timetable fan will inform this!

 

[Chester1]

Looks like I won't be able to go on holiday to Italy in December then

Anyway, kinda surprising that Grant Shapps decided to do 4am on Sunday rather than the usual 4am on Saturday.

I am off to Italy soon and quarantining on return. I am fortunate that I can work from home for 2 weeks. There are multiple insurers who will insure people who travel against Foreign Office travel advice (some including covid medical treatment abroad) if its within Europe and the advice is due to covid. There are a couple of specialist firms who will insure anywhere in the world for the right price. Hopefully by December the quarantine will be reduced to 7 days + a test. Italy is accepting tests taken within 72 hours of arrival and major airports are doing free fast tests on arrival (both replace quarantining for arrivals from UK).

 

[kristiang85]

I am off to Italy soon and quarantining on return. I am fortunate that I can work from home for 2 weeks. There are multiple insurers who will insure people who travel against Foreign Office travel advice (some including covid medical treatment abroad) if its within Europe and the advice is due to covid. There are a couple of specialist firms who will insure anywhere in the world for the right price. Hopefully by December the quarantine will be reduced to 7 days + a test. Italy is accepting tests taken within 72 hours of arrival and major airports are doing free fast tests on arrival (both replace quarantining for arrivals from UK).

Do you have any insurance recommendations for current times? The only one I can find is BattleFace, but it would be good to have more options to shop with.

 

[Chester1]

Do you have any insurance recommendations for current times? The only one I can find is BattleFace, but it would be good to have more options to shop with.

BattleFace and Campbell Irvine are the two that will insure you for anywhere (pre covid they specialised in insuring people who travelled to Yemen etc). For European only cover against FCO travel advice there is InsureFor, which is the trading name of Rock Insurance which also provides Jet2 insurance. Staysure is similar. None provide everything you would want so you need to take time to compare the inclusions and exclusions and see which covers you best.

Edit: There is a Portuguese government backed insurance for travel to Portugal that covers covid stuff. I can't remember its name.

 

[kristiang85]

BattleFace and Campbell Irvine are the two that will insure you for anywhere (pre covid they specialised in insuring people who travelled to Yemen etc). For European only cover against FCO travel advice there is InsureFor, which is the trading name of Rock Insurance which also provides Jet2 insurance. Staysure is similar. None provide everything you would want so you need to take time to compare the inclusions and exclusions and see which covers you best.

Edit: There is a Portuguese government backed insurance for travel to Portugal that covers covid stuff. I can't remember its name.

Thanks, I'll look at Campbell Irvine too then. I'm off to Sudan in November so I will need the full range of insurance rather than just covid.

 

[jtuk]

Seems ridiculous to still have this policy for any country given the supposed rates within the UK at the moment

 

[johntea]

Denmark removed from the travel corridor list...at 01:30 on Friday morning...in effect from 04:00 Friday morning - what on earth?!

 

[yorksrob]

Denmark removed from the travel corridor list...at 01:30 on Friday morning...in effect from 04:00 Friday morning - what on earth?!

That'll be the worrying new mutation of the virus that's been associated with mink farming.

 

[island]

Germany and Sweden are also off the list as of 4am tomorrow (Saturday).

 

[Mag_seven]

Germany and Sweden are also off the list as of 4am tomorrow (Saturday).

So after several weeks of imposing the quarantine at 4am on the Sunday they have now flip flopped back to 4am on the Saturday. They really are taking the proverbial now.

 

[Chester1]

Quarantine is being reduced from 15th December if you take a test after five days and it is negative. So if you arrive back on Saturday you can opt to pay for a private test on Thursday. Grant Shapps has confirmed the list of approved tests and providers will include LAMP tests which provide fast results and are considerably cheaper than PCR tests. The Foreign Office Travel Advice will not be changed for red countries therefore limiting number of travel insurers available (TUI branded insurance being the most prominent available). Its a step forward for safe travel and ironically mirrors the EU standard for high risk countries. Tests pre departure or on arrival for medium risk countries would be worth copying them on too.

 

[221129]

Finally some common sense! Here's hoping the other factions follow suit!

 

[Chester1]

Finally some common sense! Here's hoping the other factions follow suit!

Combined with adding several non European countries to the green list the outlook for travel this winter has improved. There are some really great deals available that make many destinations available to people who couldn't normally afford them. Dubai and various Caribbean destinations for example. I am looking at a week in Dubai in January at a 4* hotel with breakfast included for £800 (solo travelers). They are doing free covid tests on arrival. I could WFH for 14 days but if UAE gets added to the red list it would be good to know it would only be 5 days + a £65-120 covid test.

 

[221129]

Combined with adding several non European countries to the green list the outlook for travel this winter has improved. There are some really great deals available that make many destinations available to people who couldn't normally afford them. Dubai and various Caribbean destinations for example. I am looking at a week in Dubai in January at a 4* hotel with breakfast included for £800 (solo travelers). They are doing free covid tests on arrival. I could WFH for 14 days but if UAE gets added to the red list it would be good to know it would only be 5 days + a £65-120 covid test.

I have some Annual Leave coming up in Jan so if Sturgeon wakes up and follows suit then it is game on!

 

[joncombe]

"Quarantine rules to be relaxed for business travellers"
See https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-55162318

To quote

Quarantine rules are set to be eased for business travellers in England.
The rules will be relaxed for top bosses of foreign multinational firms visiting English branches and bosses at firms planning to invest.
Returning executives will also be exempt from quarantine.
In each case, the business trips must result in a deal which creates or preserves 50 jobs or leads to a £100,000 investment or order, according to the Department for Transport.

I don't even know where to begin with this one. Globe-trotting rich executives don't spread Coronavirus of course.

Or perhaps it's a bribe. "Welcome to Britain. If you don't create/preserve 50 jobs or provide £100,000 of investment then it's 14 days house arrest for you" And how long do they have to do that? 1 day? 2 days? A week. Madness.

 

[scotrail158713]

"Quarantine rules to be relaxed for business travellers"
See https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-55162318

To quote



I don't even know where to begin with this one. Globe-trotting rich executives don't spread Coronavirus of course.

Or perhaps it's a bribe. "Welcome to Britain. If you don't create/preserve 50 jobs or provide £100,000 of investment then it's 14 days house arrest for you" And how long do they have to do that? 1 day? 2 days? A week. Madness.

Ludicrous. I don’t know where to start with where that’s wrong - it’s wrong on so many levels.

 

[adc82140]

There's the performing artists exemption as well.

That's it. You people have held me back for long enough. I'm going to clown college*

*you'll get it if you're a Simpsons fan.

 

[brad465]

If there was ever one story that highlights inequality and everything that's wrong with this world, that story is it.

I wouldn't be surprised if bribery or some other form of corrupt practice is written somewhere in the decision making behind this policy.

 

[Bantamzen]

Apparently the virus has called a truce with the rich, famous and influential....

 

[RomeoCharlie71]

As reported in other threads, the Government are now strongly looking at enforcing a 10 day hotel quarantine for international travelers, at the traveler's expense.

Overseas travellers returning to the UK face paying for 10 extra days at a hotel

No 10 sources confirmed that hotel quarantining would likely be part of the 'next steps' to secure borders and stop Covid variants spreading

www.telegraph.co.uk

British families returning from foreign holidays will have to pay for an extra 10 days in an airport hotel under heavy guard, in plans backed by the Home Office.

Senior Cabinet ministers are likely to approve a plan to force people returning from overseas to quarantine in a hotel to ensure that they cannot bring variants of Covid-19 back into the UK.

The chief dispute at Cabinet level is whether the hotel quarantine rules apply to all visitors or just to those returning from coronavirus hotspots.

Downing Street sources confirmed that hotel quarantining was likely to form part of the “next steps”, after Boris Johnson made clear at his press conference on Friday that more would have to be done on securing the borders.

The plans will be thrashed out at a meeting of the Government’s Covid-Operational committee, chaired by Mr Johnson, the Prime Minister, on Tuesday.

Home Secretary Priti Patel and Health Secretary Matt Hancock are understood to back tougher measures while Transport Secretary Grant Shapps and Chancellor Rishi Sunak support a more targeted approach.

Ms Patel is understood to be pushing for all returning travellers, including Britons, to spend 10 days in a designated hotel near an airport or port on returning. Talks are already underway with hotel chains including Holiday Inn-owner IHG.

Taxpayers would cover the cost of security guards to ensure they did not attempt to leave the hotel or go home. One Home Office source said: “You have to do it for everything or it makes it pointless.”

One source said: “Officials are sounding out which chains would be interested. They are empty. It makes sense for a lot of them.

“It is working out what it looks like in practice, that is what is happening over the weekend.”

The hope is that the current numbers of arrivals (around 10,000 a day) will slow to a trickle of several thousand visitors a day once the measures are adopted.

The quarantine plan is favoured to Australian-style border closures which could leave Britons stranded and force the Government to fund an airlift operation to bring them home.

Longer term, the Home Office is looking at forcing new arrivals to download an App onto their mobile phones and ask them to send selfies of themselves at home.

The ‘selfie’ plan is based on a scheme which is run in Poland. Police and enforcement officers can check the person is still at home using location data in the selfie.

One Home Office source said the idea was “interesting” but there was some nervousness given the failure of the NHS Test and Trace app last year.

A senior source said: “If we had to close the borders, repatriation would be on the cards which is logistically a nightmare.

“If you are stuck in Panama or wherever you have been for the last few months, you would probably have to charter planes or get the military involved to get them back and quarantine them all.”

The hotels’ quarantine plan was meant to be discussed at a meeting of the Covid Operations committee on Friday but had been pushed to this week.

One source said: “The questions that ministers threw up meant that officials had to go away and work on the options harder. That was why it was put in this week.”

Ms Patel last week ordered that everyone entering the UK should be checked by Border Force officers for negative Covid-19 tests within 72 hours of departure and locator forms.

More than 230 people were fined £500 apiece last week for not having a negative test or not completing their form, according to the Home Office.

Airlines also face fines of £2,000 per passenger for allowing people onto flights without the proper documentation.

“It is to make sure more people are complying. Compliance is high but we don’t want to miss anyone,” said a Government source.