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Question about networkers

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Galvanize

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I have been noticing lately on class 465 and 466 networkers, a tiny little white light
http://atomicdanny-003.fotopic.net/p52326240.html Look directly above the number "5" in the unit's number and you'll see it.

Anyone know what it means, as some units have been going around without that light switched on, and it does not look bright enough to be a headlight. Does it mean anything techical?
 
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westcoaster

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its the destination indicator blind light, see it quiet a lot must just be the bulb has slipped, as regards to being on or off it might be to do with if the destination blind is on or off.
 

Crompton Karl

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Many years ago i used to write the reports for failures at Slade Green Depot which nearly always used to be failure reports for networkers :lol: My father was the Driver Standards Manager at the time, so guess how i got the job ;) :lol:

The light canot be destination indicator blind as Networkers were not built with Destination blinds, however, when built they had Dot Matrix indicators and i believe have subsequentially been retrofitted with LED style indicators.

I suspect that this is some programable glitch for this type of indicator which makes a few of the LED's light up when the indicator is not displaying a destination. I will ask a few friends who still work at Slade Green to see what i can find out.

Karl :)
 
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Hi,

The light is simply in use when the display boards are not being used (when they really should be! :)). And the refurbishment of the Networkers is still ongoing, most are still yet to have the new LCD boards installed.

Hope this helps.
 

jv3531

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Flip-types are prone to this when old or worn. The segments occasionally fail and allow light to show ( They may stick or simply fall out. They work on the principal of a 2 state system, one side is black, the other is yellow and normally a magnetic pulse will activate the required side to form the letter). They are good when they work but a bugger when they fail, because its very hard when they stick/fall out to replace the individual segmants. 158s have a similar, smaller version.
 
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mbonwick

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Exactly.

Same system is/ was used in buses. They're starting to be replaced now though.
 

jopsuk

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Hi,

The light is simply in use when the display boards are not being used (when they really should be! :)). And the refurbishment of the Networkers is still ongoing, most are still yet to have the new LCD boards installed.

Hope this helps.

LED not LCD, surely?
 

jv3531

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Technically, neither - as said above, they are a flip type display - one side is yellow, other is black - program displays correct side required to display segment. Very similar to bright-tec displays or the slightly more modern flip-dot displays. LEDs would use light to show lit or unlit. LCD would be similar but on a crystal display rather than a lit display. Clever system, works on magnetic polarities - when it works, when it don't you get the message but with lots of splats because it don't turn round what it should. This LED type display was I asume easier to maintain as you had less bits to turn, and consequently less bits to fail.
 

Crompton Karl

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I'm sorry - am a bit lost as to what you are clarifying to me here?

We are talking about the Networker Displays yes?

You believe them to be fitted with Flip type displays? - These are electornic flip boards i gather?

When i was working on Networkers they had Dot Matrix displays and my colleagues who still work on them inform me that they are being retrifitted with LED display boards, where you tap in a code on the back and the LED display on the front shows the destinations - these are like the ones fitted to the 375, 377 and other such EMU's.

Karl :)
 

jv3531

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I'm sorry - am a bit lost as to what you are clarifying to me here?

We are talking about the Networker Displays yes?

You believe them to be fitted with Flip type displays? - These are electornic flip boards i gather?

When i was working on Networkers they had Dot Matrix displays and my colleagues who still work on them inform me that they are being retrifitted with LED display boards, where you tap in a code on the back and the LED display on the front shows the destinations - these are like the ones fitted to the 375, 377 and other such EMU's.

Karl :)

Yes, you are correct on what you say. Newer ones are LED versions (much clearer and more definitive) but the mark on the phot of where the light was was definatly a "flip type display".
 

Crompton Karl

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Yes, you are correct on what you say. Newer ones are LED versions (much clearer and more definitive) but the mark on the phot of where the light was was definatly a "flip type display".

Yeah but the issue i am trying to point out is i believe this is actually the light shown from the Dot Matrix style of display as shown very clearly in this picture i found on Wikipedia (just under the 1 of the number 81, and should hopefully end Galvanize's quest to an answer for his question :)), are we talking about the same display? Because when i worked on these Units this was commonly referred to as Dot Matrix by myself and my colleagues.

South_Eastern_Trains_465238_at_Grenwich_2005-12-10_02.jpg


Karl :)
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
As a side note i think we are talking about the same thing - see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dot_matrix_display

All the best

Karl :)
 
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jv3531

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If you look close enough at the display, you can see quite clearly that they are made up of individual segmants. These are invidividual painted segmants that rotate round to form characters as required. If they were dot matrix, look at how for example aptis tickets were printed. Each character was made up of dots. This one clearly shows the segmants (look at the A for example and you can see the lines clearly on this which make up this letter) which make up the letters. Where the white dot is says to me that there is obviously part of the display missing and the "Backlight" is showing through. This used to happen frequently with our olympian buses which were fitted with Transign roller displays and worked in a similar way - sometimes a roller would stick or fall out and then show the backlighting behind. The older NSE Style "Digital" clocks work in the same way if you have noticed.

Many people do refer to them as dot matrix, but if this was the case then they would be made up if a collection of dots, not segments as can be seen on this photo.
 

Crompton Karl

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If you look close enough at the display, you can see quite clearly that they are made up of individual segmants. These are invidividual painted segmants that rotate round to form characters as required. If they were dot matrix, look at how for example aptis tickets were printed. Each character was made up of dots.

I think you'll find we are talking about the same basic design and i hope to be able to explain more clearly in this post.

I am not talking about a display made up of LED's but a sign consisting of a matrix of lights or mechanical indicators arranged in a rectangular configuration (other shapes are also possible, although not common) such that by switching on or off selected lights, text or graphics can be displayed. A dot matrix controller converts instructions from a processor into signals which turns on or off lights in the matrix so that the required display is produced.

Hence why on the Railway they are called Dot Matrix Displays.

Networkers were fitted with this type of system when new - some still do have this type of Display. A Dot matrix display is not made of up dots i agree here too, but you cannot confuse a Dot Matrix printer (as per Aptis) with a Dot Matrix Display.

This one clearly shows the segmants (look at the A for example and you can see the lines clearly on this which make up this letter) which make up the letters. Where the white dot is says to me that there is obviously part of the display missing and the "Backlight" is showing through.

Again i agree - as per the picture on my last post.

This used to happen frequently with our olympian buses which were fitted with Transign roller displays and worked in a similar way - sometimes a roller would stick or fall out and then show the backlighting behind. The older NSE Style "Digital" clocks work in the same way if you have noticed.

I agree again - however, on the Railways these displays were known as Dot Matix - even on the clock, as i said in my last post read this link and you will understand what i mean http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dot_matrix_display

Many people do refer to them as dot matrix, but if this was the case then they would be made up if a collection of dots, not segments as can be seen on this photo.

Yes, but what you are refering to here is a different type of display - this would actually be called a "LED Dot Matrix Display" or now simplified to "LED Matrix Display".

When i was involved for 4 years writing reports for British Rail and Connex regarding faults on these actual units for Slade Green Depot Engineering Department we refered to them as Dot Matrix Display because that is what they are called, it was not a slang name or a reference name it was their technical name for the display unit on a Networkers as fitted from new in 1991/92.

All the best

Karl :)
 

Royston Vasey

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Not convinced this is the "backlight"... are these displays not lit from the front rather than the back - in which case this wouldn't be caused by a missing segment, which are opaque surely?

Plus isn't it a coincidence that all the lights shown on all the photos are in exactly the same place??
 

Crompton Karl

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Originally I thought one of the blanking plates may have disloged at the bottom of the display on the Dot matrix display.

The bottom section AFAIK used to be blanked off under the number display area with a series of black plates about the size of a small table coaster because the bottom secion of the display was never intended to be used.

Now upon further investigation it seems that they have removed a plate and installed a small light instead, see this picture

465237_at_Waterloo_East.jpg


You can clearly see the "light" in the place where it has been showing on previous pics.

Actually you can still see this "light" space when looking at LED Displays on the retrofitted Networkers too.

465020_at_Waterloo_East.jpg



Karl :)

PS. Pics from Wikipedia.
 
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Galvanize

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Thank you Karl! The reason I was asking what the light was about, I heard somewhere that it meant whether Rheostatic Brakes were enabled or disabled?

Speaking of that, I have heard a few networkers using their motors to slow down (the Rheostatic), does this mean there is a plan to bring it back at all? :)
 
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All the Electrostar's have their regenerative (not rheostatic) braking systen enabled, and the Networkers (both Classes 465 and 466) are following suit AFAIK.
 
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