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Rail Freight Flows and News UK

Numbskull100

Member
Joined
29 Jul 2017
Messages
139
When you see that, read "something might happen here". We have that on some liners via Wembley where all that happens is a crew change or pathing stop.

Could be a run around, crew change, division of a jumbo etc. Could also be absolutely nothing.
 
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zwk500

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Joined
20 Jan 2020
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13,387
Location
Bristol
Can you please explain what this train (6A59) is about? Gaining and loosing "coaches" at Piccadilly and Stalybridge and running round there rather than say Guide Bridge East/Hyde Junction loop?
Surely they haven't left "coaches" at Picc?
That information is transmitted in a series of data codes at each stop in the schedules. Freight has a default activity code of setting down and picking up wagons at any stop, and if the codes are not entered right the default can crop up again downstream.
OpenTrainTimes has the correct activity codes and doesn't show the Gaining/losing coaches or wagons at all. https://www.opentraintimes.com/schedule/R09843/2024-04-20

Code -T means 'stopping to attach/detach vehicles' and applies to Passenger and Freight stock equally so RTT has converted 'vehicles' into 'coaches'. Certain codes overwrite the default activity, but others (including stopping for pathing or a crew change) do not, and it is easy to get the '*' code required to suppress the default in the wrong order (it needs to be first).
 
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littledude

Member
Joined
21 Nov 2011
Messages
41
Can you please explain what this train (6A59) is about? Gaining and loosing "coaches" at Piccadilly and Stalybridge and running round there rather than say Guide Bridge East/Hyde Junction loop?
Surely they haven't left "coaches" at Picc?
The gaining/losing vehicles is an unfortunate quirk with the train planning software
 

EastWest

New Member
Joined
25 Jan 2024
Messages
4
Location
Cheltenham
Can you please explain what this train (6A59) is about? Gaining and loosing "coaches" at Piccadilly and Stalybridge and running round there rather than say Guide Bridge East/Hyde Junction loop?
Surely they haven't left "coaches" at Picc?
I assume that description is a general catch-all and in this case it is more likely to be for pathing or staff change purposes. In fact it only appears to have spent a quarter of a minute there anyway! It does seem a bit strange though that they have seemingly lugged empty wagons about 300 miles from Kent to North Wales then about 250 miles from Manchester back to Kent, for a loaded journey of barely 100 miles - doesn’t appear to make sense either economically or environmentally.
 

furnessvale

Established Member
Joined
14 Jul 2015
Messages
4,582
I assume that description is a general catch-all and in this case it is more likely to be for pathing or staff change purposes. In fact it only appears to have spent a quarter of a minute there anyway! It does seem a bit strange though that they have seemingly lugged empty wagons about 300 miles from Kent to North Wales then about 250 miles from Manchester back to Kent, for a loaded journey of barely 100 miles - doesn’t appear to make sense either economically or environmentally.
Economically I have to agree, but environmentally, even with the massive amount of empty running, the train has still not emitted as much CO2 as HGVs carrying the same load, assuming the HGVs ran one way empty to collect the load.
 

zwk500

Veteran Member
Joined
20 Jan 2020
Messages
13,387
Location
Bristol
I assume that description is a general catch-all and in this case it is more likely to be for pathing or staff change purposes. In fact it only appears to have spent a quarter of a minute there anyway! It does seem a bit strange though that they have seemingly lugged empty wagons about 300 miles from Kent to North Wales then about 250 miles from Manchester back to Kent, for a loaded journey of barely 100 miles - doesn’t appear to make sense either economically or environmentally.
As mentioned above, 'Stops to detach and attach vehicles' is the default activity for freight trains (in the same way 'Stops to set down and take up passengers' is the default activity for passenger trains). RTT renders this as 'service gains/loses coaches'. Some codes override the default activity, but others (such as 'stops or shunts to let other trains pass', also known as stopping for pathing reasons) do not and the planners who input the schedule in the system need to enter an dummy activity in the first position and then put the actual activity in second place.
For various reasons, it is very easy for the dummy activity to be missed entirely or put in the wrong place. When this happens, as the schedule gets passed between the various back-end systems the software automatically stamps the default activity back in first place.

It's the same reason passenger trains will sometimes show passenger stops at Loops or Junctions.
The gaining/losing vehicles is an unfortunate quirk with the train planning software
It is avoidable if people put the star first when it's needed! However once the schedule has acquired the -T/OP they tend to be left in because people tend to think they're intended rather than data errors.
 

billh

Member
Joined
7 Jan 2015
Messages
227
Thanks to all for explanations. I saw the shiny silver empties going back to Kent on Saturday, so it wasn't all virtual!
 

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