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Rail head treatment trains statistics? can anyone provide info?

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maxtwee

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Hi all, Newb here looking for help. I am trying to find detailed info on RHTTs for a research project and this is probably the best place that I can find to get the answers.

in particular I am interested in the environmental footprint of the RHTTs and the business model Network Rail uses for them.

My questions are:
  1. how much water is in each tank and how many tanks on average per RHTT
  2. how many miles they treat per outing and in total in the UK
  3. how much water is used per mile
  4. in total, how many miles on average they treat in an outing (50% efficient? out and back again to refill for example)
  5. how much friction modifier is used per mile
  6. how many miles are treated.
  7. isantifreeze or other additives added to the water?
  8. what other technologies are out there other than water jets?
  9. what are the capital and running costs of the water jet or other systems, how are they financed (does network rail own them or lease them and pay per mile treated?)

I look forward to your thoughts, answers and any additional info that might be relevant. Thanks.
 
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The Planner

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You would be better off trying a FoI request to Network Rail in the first instance I reckon.
 

4F89

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Don't forget they don't just lay sandite everywhere for the sake of it. It goes down in specific areas of need in the main.
 

Bald Rick

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That will be too much info for an FOI, so would be rejected, with a request to narrow it down.
 

maxtwee

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There was an article in a recent 'Rail Engineer' that might be of interest...
https://www.railengineer.co.uk/cleaning-the-rail-head/
good article on the new technology ! ps thanks to the mod for tidying up the layout of my initial post :)
So far I have found that 180 million l of water is used per season to treat 74000 miles of track but this is about all I can find on NR's website. I'm asking as I'm trying to do a calc for the carbon emissions of the seasonal cleaning.
 

Romsey

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If you're worried about the carbon emissions for RHTT's the propulsion is probably much greater than any power used providing the pressure jetting.
1 x 350hp engine ( similar to a 158) powering a 2 vehicle MPV or two locos top and tailing a couple of water jet trailers.
It is pure tap water which is use without any additives which could affect track circuits or cause environmental pollution. I'm not certain of the pressure used, but I think it is over 1000psi.

Certainly a few years ago NR owned all the railhead treatment equipment. They are operated under contract by FOC's and specialist contractors.
 

Stuart-h

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If you're worried about the carbon emissions for RHTT's the propulsion is probably much greater than any power used providing the pressure jetting.
1 x 350hp engine ( similar to a 158) powering a 2 vehicle MPV or two locos top and tailing a couple of water jet trailers.
It is pure tap water which is use without any additives which could affect track circuits or cause environmental pollution. I'm not certain of the pressure used, but I think it is over 1000psi.

Certainly a few years ago NR owned all the railhead treatment equipment. They are operated under contract by FOC's and specialist contractors.

Jetter runs at 2500 psi Give or take a bit.

Engines: MPV 1 jetter engine and 2 engines on the train set on master end. 1 generator engine
 

50039

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Interesting thread.... a few more questions - do all routes get treated? I saw the MML getting treated today but I’ve never seen them on the WCML - perhaps they run at night?
Also - how frequently is each section of line treated?
Thanks..
 

Bald Rick

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Interesting thread.... a few more questions - do all routes get treated? I saw the MML getting treated today but I’ve never seen them on the WCML - perhaps they run at night?
Also - how frequently is each section of line treated?
Thanks..

Just the routes where there are leaf fall issues ;)

Usually treated at least daily, at least overnigh5 and sometimes in the day as well.
 

randyrippley

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If there's a worry over the amount of water used, and its possible effect on lineside circuitry, has anyone ever looked at using pelletised carbon dioxide spray? Its used on some buildings as a less destructive and cleaner alternative to sandblasting. The used CO2 just evaporates, no residue
 

Romsey

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I'm not certain with the problem is with water on the tracks - after all it rains enough in this country! The RHTT is a fine high pressure jet, not a hose pipe delivery. Water is only a problem when it floods the track - particularly in 3rd rail areas before the traction supply is isolated.

See this article for dry ice leaf removal.
 

malc-c

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Lots of information can be had simply by using Google or other search engines. I found this which suggests that the process is a treatment process and not simply washing the grime away using extremely high pressure water jets

The leaf-busting trains clean the railheads with a water jet operating at 1,500 bar (1,480 atmospheres) or about 75 times more powerful than a domestic pressure washer. The spray blasts away leaf mulch, clearing the tracks and conductors, and helping signalling systems to function correctly. The work doesn’t finish there. The treatment concludes with an applied mixture of suspension gel, sand and metal shot, to aid traction.

https://www.railtech.com/infrastruc...he-for-treatment-trains-in-britain/?gdpr=deny
 

hurri67

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Water jetter runs around 1500 bar, with a booster pump, the pistons in th pump are ceramic IIRC.Jetter eng is a D12 Volvo Penta engine.
The jetter when in operation, will cut into the railhead,while stationary after a very short period.
IIRC the tanks hold around 17500lt of untreated water, ie no antifreeze.
 

maxtwee

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Water jetter runs around 1500 bar, with a booster pump, the pistons in th pump are ceramic IIRC.Jetter eng is a D12 Volvo Penta engine.
The jetter when in operation, will cut into the railhead,while stationary after a very short period.
IIRC the tanks hold around 17500lt of untreated water, ie no antifreeze.
thanks for that info. a brief mention of stats on rail technology magazine today https://www.railtechnologymagazine....icle 2 read now&dm_i=IJS,72V84,2K1QH5,SLJHJ,1
300,000 miles covered this year, 50,000 miles treated with sandite Gel. I'll try a direct approach to NR.. thanks again
 
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