Rail Operations Group Fleet Expansion - Heathrow Connect 360/2s.

[fgwrich]

And yet, according to Wikipedia, ROG's own social media posts aren't sufficient as evidence that they have purchased the 360/2s

I did notice that. Pleasingly, it has now been changed (as ROG has placed an announcement on their website - https://www.railopsgroup.co.uk/news/) although the return of the 360/1s to Anglia has appeared again.

Nope, apparently ROGs own website isn’t even a reliable source of information. But Rail Magazine is!

 

[JN114]

Rail Ops Group own website would be primary information, so not eligible as a source.

In the same manner you couldn’t edit the article on the UK Prime Minister to show yourself as the latest holder of the office, and link to your own website which has a news article proclaiming as much.

Its seems like a rubbish rule, especially in light of 3rd parties so often being “wrong” with railways, but you have to apply the same content standards across the board; otherwise it’d be a treasure trove of misinformation.

A link to a reputable railway news website (not a discussion forum, or other similar “social” media outlets), would suffice.

 

[43102EMR]

Plans for the 360/2 fleet have been revealed - they are to be modded to 110mph and are being used as spot hire units.

 

[RealTrains07]

Plans for the 360/2 fleet have been revealed - they are to be modded to 110mph and are being used as spot hire units.

Thats not a bad idea considering plus it matches the speed of both the 350s and 360s

 

[fgwrich]

Plans for the 360/2 fleet have been revealed - they are to be modded to 110mph and are being used as spot hire units.

Exactly as I predicted. Great to see these fine units not being converted - save that for the awful ex BREL stuff!

 

[221101 Voyager]

Plans for the 360/2 fleet have been revealed - they are to be modded to 110mph and are being used as spot hire units.

Is there any idea of potential customers to hire these?

Also I presume Northampton will do 110 mods?

 

[43096]

Also I presume Northampton will do 110 mods?

If required, presumably. No point doing the mods until they are needed.

 

[43102EMR]

Exactly as I predicted. Great to see these fine units not being converted - save that for the awful ex BREL stuff!

Agreed - they also expressed interest in selling on the fleet if they had a reasonable offer...

 

[ExRes]

I wonder how many times a spot hire of up to just five units will happen? EMR will have the only drivers who sign 360s so unless it's them any hiring TOC would have to traction train their drivers or pay for ROG to supply the complete package

 

[43102EMR]

I wonder how many times a spot hire of up to just five units will happen? EMR will have the only drivers who sign 360s so unless it's them any hiring TOC would have to traction train their drivers or pay for ROG to supply the complete package

GA drivers also sign them, but I doubt they need them considering the 720s are being phased in...

 

[ExRes]

GA drivers also sign them, but I doubt they need them considering the 720s are being phased in...

They may well sign them at the moment but unless that competency is kept up then it's goodnight Vienna

 

[ANDREW_D_WEBB]

How much work on the units and driver training would be required to make them suitable for use on the 3rd rail network? IIRC 360201-4 were initially built as Class 450 test beds.

 

[43102EMR]

They may well sign them at the moment but unless that competency is kept up then it's goodnight Vienna

Exactly - if they were going to lease the /2s from ROG it would be happening around now.

ROG did state they aren’t just limiting them to passenger services - there’s scope for them to be leased for freight and other logistics work as well.

 

[Wolfie]

Plans for the 360/2 fleet have been revealed - they are to be modded to 110mph and are being used as spot hire units.

I wouldn't bet, should things pick up faster than expected, against one of the ROSCOs (likely the one that owns the 360/1s) looking to acquire them in due course.

 

[Islineclear3_1]

Maybe time for another fuel type conversion/experiment.

gerbil wheel dynamo?

 

[43102EMR]

I wouldn't bet, should things pick up faster than expected, against one of the ROSCOs (likely the one that owns the 360/1s) looking to acquire them in due course.

I don’t know what process Heathrow went through selling the fleet (i.e. whether they tendered against several companies or if ROG simply just offered to buy them off them), but I’m pretty sure if Angel were going to purchase the 360/2 fleet they would’ve done so by now.

The possibility still remains for ROG to sell on the fleet, it’s just a question of who would be interested in purchasing them other than ROSCOs.

 

[Domh245]

I'm curious where the market for spot hiring these will be!

 

[221101 Voyager]

I'm curious where the market for spot hiring these will be!

Me too.

I have serious doubts as to whether they can make this spot hiring thing a success.

 

[Energy]

I'd assume the spot hire would have ROG supply trained drivers. I can see it being successful, desiros are cleared for a large amount of the network.

 

[cj_1985]

Technically they were built as class 350s.
There were a number of pictures of at least one of them at Northam Depot. From memory the pictured example was all white with the only yellow being cab front connecting door/s

 

[supervc-10]

I thought that was the 360/1s, not the 360/2s which came much later?

 

[Townsend Hook]

I wonder how many times a spot hire of up to just five units will happen? EMR will have the only drivers who sign 360s so unless it's them any hiring TOC would have to traction train their drivers or pay for ROG to supply the complete package.

It wouldn’t be out of the ordinary for TOC traincrew to be trained on hire stock if the contract was sufficiently long-term to make it worthwhile. Look at GA crews who signed the DRS 37s as a relatively recent example.

 

[cj_1985]

I thought that was the 360/1s, not the 360/2s which came much later?

the 360/2s, as mentioned above, were built by Siemens for Angel Trains as demonstrators.. only 360201-204 were built as 350s. 360205 was built around the same time as 360201-204 were rebuilt with the 360 style cab, in place of the Class 350/450 style cab, by Siemens

 

[pompeyfan]

I would assume they would need to spot hire either guards or dispatchers if they were run in passenger service?

 

[JN114]

I would assume they would need to spot hire either guards or dispatchers if they were run in passenger service?

Depends where they are spot hired to I guess - with Heathrow Express and latterly TfL Rail they always operated DOO(P) on the Connect Services, with none of the stations they served except Paddington having dispatch staff towards the end.

 

[pompeyfan]

Depends where they are spot hired to I guess - with Heathrow Express and latterly TfL Rail they always operated DOO(P) on the Connect Services, with none of the stations they served except Paddington having dispatch staff towards the end.

I would assume however that those stations had monitors or mirrors to allow the train to depart. That infrastructure is not available on much of the network.

 

[JN114]

I would assume however that those stations had monitors or mirrors to allow the train to depart. That infrastructure is not available on much of the network.

No, Heathrow Connect was look back dispatch in many cases:-

All Heathrow Stations (the monitors, when introduced were positioned at the 8/9-car 332 stop marks, which the 360s didn't use) and Hayes Down Relief certainly off the top of my head, probably more but recent platform extensions and upgrades have blurred my memory somewhat.

If they're spot-hired to a DOO(P) area then surely either - Monitors/Mirrors will be present or look-back dispatch is authorised as at least a degraded method of working. Otherwise you reach chicken/egg scenario if on-board cameras fail and you can't move the train.

If they're spot-hired to a guarded area then it's moot, I doubt any operators would spot-hire them into to introduce DOO-by-stealth.

 

[swt_passenger]

Agreed - they also expressed interest in selling on the fleet if they had a reasonable offer...

So high speed parcels really did turn out to be a non-event.

Not really surprising with so many competing new entrants going after an imaginary market...

 

[warwickshire]

Today Wednesday 01st December 2021.
After many months in store at bicester mod Gbrf Depot.
According to www.liverail.co.uk 37510 removed 360201 from bicester mod Gbrf Depot to lydney goods loop.
Why was this new storage or is something planned at lydney ie exhibition?.
Will it move again.
Move was Wednesday 01sr December 2021.
1043 512B 1043 bicester north mod Gbrf Depot to lydney goods loop.

 

[Cowley]

Thread reopened upon request by @warwickshire .