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Rail strikes discussion

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Thumper1127

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I am not talking about inheritance, I am talking about a system that says one health condition gets all fees paid for and another does not or your postcode can have an impact on what help you do or do not get, its not a level nor a fair playing field. Mandatory social care insurance... well we wouldn't need that if successive Govts got a grip of the health and social care system years ago.
Sorry, wasn’t the rise in NI precisely to address funding social care, albeit skewed to the NHS in the first 2 years? Successive governments of all persuasions have ducked the issue for years and when they finally do something we cry foul. The rise in NI is uncomfortable at the moment to say the least but I don’t disagree with it in principle. Remember also that from 6th July the NI free allowance rises to match tax allowance. The net effect of this is that anyone on £30k or under will actually pay less NI than they did before the rise came in. Ok, the Government were forced to make this change (adjusting it post the first introduction of the rise) but that is democracy and politics responding to public feeling. I think we should park any reference to NI until after the adjustment has come in as many on here will actually pay less than they were at the start of the year.
 
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WiredUp

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I have to put you a bit right. I live in a village in Bedfordshire. You have described my village to a T. Other than the prices, I can also leave my door unlocked. We get a village news leaflet thing and no crime and a farm shop. Hour drive to London and 40 minutes on the train. Have to give you Beamish as I went not so long ago. They do beautiful fish and chips too. We have an awesome chippy in the next village.
Harlington?
 

theageofthetra

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Aren’t most employees on rolling rest days, ie, mon/tues, wed/thur, fri/sat? If so then most would only have lost 2 days pay as they’d have been rest day on 1of the strike days.
A good point that I am surprised hasn't been made yet.

Another thing to add is that a lot of drivers, particularly those with kids(and therefore least able to lose money), will be on their summer rostered leave during the possible next round of strikes.

As long as leave was requested prior to strike days being announced then they don't lose pay.
 

yorksrob

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I hear this argument so much and its absolutely infuriating. Excellent, I can get a low interest rate on a loan that I can't afford to take because I need to provide a substantial down payment. I can give a lender a decade of proof of me paying £600-800 a month reliably to keep a roof over my head, but without that massive wedge of cash its pointless.



There is nothing wrong with "the North", or anywhere else. But for various people the North isn't an option and it shouldn't be forced as the solution. If you grew up in London or the South East, your family and friends and life are there. Its one thing being single or a childless couple but trying to uproot a whole family?

In a parallel universe my parents may have decided to buy the sub £100k flat on the bank of the Thames in Datchet in the late 80s and had me there in the early 90s. And then I'd be in the exact same frame of mind as @ar10642

But higher interest rates aren't going to make anything easier for you, quite the opposite.
 

dk1

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Another thing to add is that a lot of drivers, particularly those with kids(and therefore least able to lose money), will be on their summer rostered leave during the possible next round of strikes.
Our annual leave is rostered rotates & continues constantly from January to December. Having kids wouldn't make any difference. I dont but wouldn't change for worse summer weeks in say September just because somebody else does.

This mornings trains have been very busy already no doubt left over travel from yesterday. Speaking to the manager in a nearby bar as I'm having breakfast, she said yesterday's strike action badly affected their trade yesterday.
 

Bletchleyite

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No idea, but we're going to have to think of something better than "just move to the North" as a solution to these problems.

There are basically two solutions. One is to distribute the economy more. The other is to remove London's green belt which seriously constrains development to the pretty much entire benefit of rich people in the Chalfonts and the likes.

A good point that I am surprised hasn't been made yet.

The RMT leader mentioned it on an LBC interview yesterday, FWIW.

I hear this argument so much and its absolutely infuriating. Excellent, I can get a low interest rate on a loan that I can't afford to take because I need to provide a substantial down payment. I can give a lender a decade of proof of me paying £600-800 a month reliably to keep a roof over my head, but without that massive wedge of cash its pointless.

There is nothing wrong with "the North", or anywhere else. But for various people the North isn't an option and it shouldn't be forced as the solution. If you grew up in London or the South East, your family and friends and life are there. Its one thing being single or a childless couple but trying to uproot a whole family?

In a parallel universe my parents may have decided to buy the sub £100k flat on the bank of the Thames in Datchet in the late 80s and had me there in the early 90s. And then I'd be in the exact same frame of mind as @ar10642

A very, very large number of young people in professional industries relocate to London and the SE for their early career, it is that you would want to redistribute a bit, not to uproot families.
 

alxndr

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Would you care to share this "through the roof" stat?

Here you go. You can also explore the popularity of searches for yourself on Google Trends.
 

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alxndr

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Thanks, but what are the figures? Are we talking about a few hundred people here, because if so that's hardly "through the roof".
I don't think you can see the actual figures (or if you can I don't know how). It does suggest a large increase in people interested in joining unions though compared to usual.
 

matacaster

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But higher interest rates aren't going to make anything easier for you, quite the opposite.
A major reason that lenders want a substantial deposit is they got their fingers burned. Traditionally building societies took the purchase price and subtracted a sum to hope to cover the costs of you defaulting. These might include selling your house, admin, surveyors fees, estate agency fees, solicitors fees and possible downturn in the economy. If you were the lender, you wouldn't want to be dumped with all these costs and a loss if the borrower defaulted... Marriage breakdown, lost job, etc. So I am sure it's infuriating, but they would dearly love to give out mortgages with a very low deposit as they make a lot of noney if it all works out..... But if it doesn't!
 

eldomtom2

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Overpopulation is already a problem in may ways though too. A lack of working age population has traditionally been dealt with immigration. The demographics will equalise, but we're a few decades away from that as the generation increasingly requiring social and hospital care is the "baby boomers" which, as implied by the name, was a significant birth rate increase.
Demographics will not equalise without an increase in birth rate to 2.1. Immigration is not a sustainable solution as birth rates are declining everywhere.
 

gazzaa2

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This country simply doesn’t have the space to artificially increase population size to support pensioners, at least not with the way economics (especially jobs) are biased towards London and the SE.

Exacerbated by the two big rail projects of the 21st century: Crossrail and HS2.
 

jon0844

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exbrel

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No, I'm saying it's ridiculous to give one section of society 10% whilst, say a Universal Credit claimant or a low paid public sector worker would get a very low increase or nothing at all.
so if the RMT do get their 10% then they are the one section of society, others will see that as a norm to go for, plus claiming a benefit could in a lot of cases entitle you to other help/benefits...
The bog standard pension is £141.85p a week, thats 39yrs for a full one, i paid tax +NI on it and still pay tax on the pension, not counting a mortgage as some will have paid it off, you have gas, electric, water, council tax, and lastly food, which have all gone up or are still rising to come out of that pension. My mother taught me to save and when i could i did, but it couldn't be much with the mortgage and a family, so that would help but .001% interest rates, well enough said, the point of the above is we all shop at the same shops, i don't know your circumstances but could you live on that?
When i started work in 1961 i entered into a un-written contract with the govt. to pay NI which would cover all my health, care needs, ie optical, dental, perscriptions, medical care,i now have to pay for 3 of those for a number of years, and medical have to wait months for hospitalisation.
So my 10% will be £14 making it £156, this is not a rant, just giving my personal view and position... right i will now go for a cup of tea and a lay down...

That's exactly it, I've grown up in Sussex, my friends and family are here and it's home. When we were forced to move because our landlord wanted to sell we tried very hard to stay near enough to our kids' school so they could stay there.

I'm sure parts of the North are very nice, although the description of the village sounds very similar to the one I am in now, but it would mean being on our own and seeing family and friends would be a multi day trip involving a hotel rather than a short journey.

I am little bit curious as well, if demand for property is so low up there, what's the reason for that? And of course if there was some sort of mass exodus from the South to, say the North East, prices would start shooting up there, so whilst it's an answer for some people it's not a solution for society as a whole.
i saw a programme on tv awhile back, asking commuters who travel from their homes in Coventry area to London to work, and they said it was only one/one and a half hrs from home to office, and in most cases their employer paid for their season ticket, it got them out of the hussle and bussle of London, and it was a lot cheaper.
 
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bramling

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Low-ish interest rates also enable first time buyers onto the property ladder and make it easier to overcome the unsustainably high property cost.

Not if low interest rates simply stimulate demand and force prices up, especially if this then makes the property out of reach.

Indeed it’s possibly, in time, going to be seen that the BOE’s reducing interest rates to virtually zero levels during Covid was an error. We absolutely didn’t need people using Covid as an opportunity to buy somewhere with a bigger garden, move to the countryside, etc.

Instead of using a blunt instrument like interest rates, far better to target legislation at speculative property purchase, non-resident property ownership etc

Yes, although interest rates aren’t just aimed at influencing property demand, but demand across the board.
 

ar10642

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so if the RMT do get their 10% then they are the one section of society, others will see that as a norm to go for, plus claiming a benefit could in a lot of cases entitle you to other help/benefits...
The bog standard pension is £141.85p a week, thats 39yrs for a full one, i paid tax +NI on it and still pay tax on the pension, not counting a mortgage as some will have paid it off, you have gas, electric, water, council tax, and lastly food, which have all gone up or are still rising to come out of that pension. My mother taught me to save and when i could i did, but it couldn't be much with the mortgage and a family, so that would help but .001% interest rates, well enough said, the point of the above is we all shop at the same shops, i don't know your circumstances but could you live on that?
When i started work in 1961 i entered into a un-written contract with the govt. to pay NI which would cover all my health, care needs, ie optical, dental, perscriptions, medical care,i now have to pay for 3 of those for a number of years, and medical have to wait months for hospitalisation.
So my 10% will be £14 making it £156, this is not a rant, just giving my personal view and position... right i will now go for a cup of tea and a lay down...
I've obviously upset a lot of people with the pension comments and for that I apologise. I could have said what I wanted to say better.
 

westv

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i saw a programme on tv awhile back, asking commuters who travel from their homes in Coventry area to London to work, and they said it was only one/one and a half hrs from home to office, and in most cases their employer paid for their season ticket, it got them out of the hussle and bussle of London, and it was a lot cheaper.
That is generous. I've always worked for employers that offered interest free loans but never one that actually paid for it.
 

gazr

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You would like to think that Google should know facts about it's own search engine.
That's being naïve. Who fact checks the fact checkers? They are a force unto themselves. If you don't believe they meddle in politics and geopolitics, then there is no convincing you otherwise.
 

jon0844

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Ah yes. Google, the most trusted source of facts.

?? Google knows what people are search for.

Given most people use Google to do a search, I am unclear why you'd think the information is suspect.

The service is automatic, it isn't someone literally typing in data to fiddle figures for various search terms. Can you imagine how many searches are conducted every single second around the globe?
 

BrokenSam

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I'm sure it does but at the end of the day, if a 7% payrise were on the table, I am sure you would not reject it. Hardly anyone would.
If it meant colleagues losing their jobs and potentially safety not being met I 100% would. I admit many wouldn't, but that isn't me.
 

gazr

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?? Google knows what people are search for.

Given most people use Google to do a search, I am unclear why you'd think the information is suspect.

The service is automatic, it isn't someone literally typing in data to fiddle figures for various search terms. Can you imagine how many searches are conducted every single second around the globe?
Are you aware of things called BOTS? It's easy for them to all search for something and boost numbers. Oh well, I'll refrain from commenting on Google further.
 

Wolfie

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That is generous. I've always worked for employers that offered interest free loans but never one that actually paid for it.
I would have thought that there would be all sorts of tax implications for that.
 

Bletchleyite

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I would have thought that there would be all sorts of tax implications for that.

Fairly simple really - it comes off your tax free allowance, provided it does not qualify as a temporary workplace. However there is no reason the company cannot "gross up" the payment to cover that tax as well; mine for one does have a procedure to do that (some of our contracts exceed 2 years) though I have never needed it myself.
 

cactustwirly

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@ar10642 - this is a practical suggestion and rather off-topic, but you keep poo-poohing moving up north - it's actually a bloody good idea. Why are you so anti it?

While I am fortunate to have been in the position that I *could* have bought a house down south if I really wanted to, I thought it was insane. So I moved up here and (admittedly having something of an advantage that I was born in Durham so knew where to go) I am as happy as a pig in ****.

At some risk to my anonymity, I'll detail my position to demo why I think it's a no-brainer:

(I am married but my wife is basically irrelevant to the following tale as everything financially is in my name and she has followed me - and still doesn't have a job up here - so I will use first person):

I am 35. To grossly simplify my last decade, I started a new career in roughly 2013, moved down south dunno, maybe 2016 (?) to get more money (although I didn't really at first) - moved my way up through the various opportunities there and then managed to move up north again a few months ago while keeping roughly the same job, but doing it remotely.

I've just moved in to the first house I've ever owned, in a 1960s housing estate in an ancient village. It was quite a naive purchase in hindsight because I didn't appreciate just how much work was required on it. Nevertheless was able to do it (with some CC balance transfer tricks - see MSE!) and am now paying less than 1/4 of my salary a month towards it on a 15-year mortgage on a three-bed semi. About the same on the balance transfers/new kitchen at 0% but they will be done in a couple of years.

Within 5 miles there are 3 farm shops for gorgeous food. Within under half an hour's drive (I say this as you likely appreciate this if you're on this site) are the Tanfield Railway, the Weardale Railway (been there today and got an amazing book tip!), Beamish - and at a push the Bowes Railway. Within less than a minute's walk is a field which is alternately meadow or sheep. Within a couple of minutes cycle, is a disused railway line cycle path with many miles with gorgeous views as an option in either direction. We have Ukrainian refugees here (who have been helped out by local businesses). A village magazine (how I know that). Two pubs. A butcher, a greengrocer, two Italians, a Greek, a Pizzaria/Kebab place, an Indian, a Spar, a couple of cafes... various other things. And if you stray outside of walking distance then less than 5 minutes drive away (or 20 minutes cycle on that disused railway) is the best chippy I've ever known. It's won awards. I bloody love this place.

Compare and contrast with down south where I didn't even know all the families in the poxy converted offices where I had a flat (which was actually more to rent per month - and from a very lovely landlord btw - than I'm paying on my mortgage) which had a bedroom, a bathroom, and an "everything else" room. We are already on first name terms with the entire street, we've brought each other presents, lent each other gardening tools like you're supposed to do with neigbours (but never happens down south), and are working towards knowing as much as we can of the estate and eventually as much as we can of the village.

Cause people talk to each other up here rather than being bloody suspicious that it's a scam.

Almost everything is much cheaper. Maybe not in the previously mentioned farm shops but the quality in them is absolutely superb. It's hard to appreciate how much cheaper if used to down south but for an extreme example the Indian here - which is better than most down south (not all) is roughly 60% of the price.

There is essentially no crime. I can leave our house unlocked. And the neighbours would notice dodginess.

I'm actually in a pretty expensive part of County Durham btw. There are terraces in good nick available not that far away for £60k. Genuinely.

Admittedly public transport is poor (although better than I expected). Nevertheless up here everyone has a car and there's nowt on the roads.

Should I wish to go to big city entertainment Newcastle is nearby, and for "in between" cultural activities Durham is less than 15 mins away. Was at the oriental museum last weekend where I saw a clock where the only other one is in the Forbidden City.

And since as part of my move up here I still need to be darn sarf for my job 1 week a month, I have the option of a 3 hour train or unleashing my straight 6 on the very-quiet-up-here A1.

My story is not atypical. It's much better up here. Set aside your anti-northern bias and look into it, seriously.

Happy to explain more about why the north is better than the south if you like :)



Indeed - I may have to eat my hat in a bit and admit that my initial assumption there was no way on earth the RMT could win the war for public hearts and minds was... wrong.

Lynch has been doing a smashing job and the government have been looking even more awful and duplicitous than normal.

I haven't changed my mind about the end conclusion because I still think this an argument the government want to have and are prepared for - but I look how silly they're currently looking an d ain't so sure.

The problem with moving up north is the lack of jobs...

London and the South East is very dense with companies and offices. This means there are a lot of very well paid skilled jobs.

The north has much less of this, relying on blue collared jobs, and low skilled jobs like retail. That is why it is so cheap, there's no demand to live there because there are no jobs.

The south is so expensive because of all the jobs
 
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