• Our booking engine at tickets.railforums.co.uk (powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!

Rail strikes discussion

Status
Not open for further replies.
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

bramling

Veteran Member
Joined
5 Mar 2012
Messages
17,686
Location
Hertfordshire / Teesdale
There’s signallers, and controllers two very different thighs with very different skills and competencies.

Line controllers have more control than signallers on LU I believe, the opposite as is the case on Network Rail.

It is the signallers who interface with the system, supported by the room technician where required. On LU the signaller and controller roles have tended to combine in many locations. Automation had led to many tasks being performed which weren’t before - even something like inputting a TSR, or resetting the computer on board a train. There’s also more liability on the signaller during failures.
 

Watershed

Veteran Member
Associate Staff
Senior Fares Advisor
Joined
26 Sep 2020
Messages
11,950
Location
UK
Many civil servants are paid more than MPs? I can assure you that only Senior Civil Service members (approx 4,000, average pay about £85k) or those on specific allowances (e.g. some people in Border Force working shifts) come anywhere near MPs pay without even thinking about their allowances (employing family members is not uncommon).
As you say, there are 4000 Senior Civil Servants. Which compares to 650 MPs the last time I checked!
 

Enthusiast

Member
Joined
18 Mar 2019
Messages
1,045
I think it’s helped that Mick Lynch has struck a message with resonates with much of society and hasn’t resorted to the usual “overthrow the capitalist establishment”...
Very true. But of course such an ambition is still enshrined in the RMT Rule book (Rule 1.4(b)).
 

Shrop

On Moderation
Joined
6 Aug 2019
Messages
649
Out of genuine interest from someone who has never been a rail employee but who firmly believes in the value of the rail system, I wonder how many people on strike have as at least part of their motivation, the betterment of the railways? Let me say that I know all about low pay, and I'm not asking to get into either the parity issue or comparison with nurses etc, but I would like to think that most or even all rail workers have at least some genuine pride in their industry? If the answer is that management are getting is all wrong then okay, but as an outsider a brief explanation would be helpful as I really don't want to unfairly think badly of anyone.
 

STKKK46

Member
Joined
5 May 2010
Messages
326
Location
Anywhere but here...
Out of genuine interest from someone who has never been a rail employee but who firmly believes in the value of the rail system, I wonder how many people on strike have as at least part of their motivation, the betterment of the railways? Let me say that I know all about low pay, and I'm not asking to get into either the parity issue or comparison with nurses etc, but I would like to think that most or even all rail workers have at least some genuine pride in their industry? If the answer is that management are getting is all wrong then okay, but as an outsider a brief explanation would be helpful as I really don't want to unfairly think badly of anyone.
I certainly have that as part of my motivation. Immense pride in the system and hope and pray that can remain.
 

Watershed

Veteran Member
Associate Staff
Senior Fares Advisor
Joined
26 Sep 2020
Messages
11,950
Location
UK
Out of genuine interest from someone who has never been a rail employee but who firmly believes in the value of the rail system, I wonder how many people on strike have as at least part of their motivation, the betterment of the railways? Let me say that I know all about low pay, and I'm not asking to get into either the parity issue or comparison with nurses etc, but I would like to think that most or even all rail workers have at least some genuine pride in their industry? If the answer is that management are getting is all wrong then okay, but as an outsider a brief explanation would be helpful as I really don't want to unfairly think badly of anyone.
The reality is that most people who strike are only in it for themselves. Now you can't blame them, that's what strikes are for, to improve your own conditions.

But it belies the fact that for all Mick Lynch calls this a fight for the working class, it really isn't. And it certainly isn't to improve the railway!

It is a dispute about pay, conditions and redundancies - no more or less than that. Any repercussions are merely an unfortunate side effect, as far as both sides are concerned.
 
Last edited:

Whistler40145

Established Member
Joined
30 Apr 2010
Messages
5,911
Location
Lancashire
With the Conservative Party getting weaker and weaker every day, will this make matters easier for the RMT when negotiating a deal for the current dispute?
 

Wolfie

Established Member
Joined
17 Aug 2010
Messages
6,050
With the Conservative Party getting weaker and weaker every day, will this make matters easier for the RMT when negotiating a deal for the current dispute?
I doubt it. I'm not sure that any strand of the Tory party favours bigger public sector pay rises.
 

johnnychips

Established Member
Joined
19 Nov 2011
Messages
3,676
Location
Sheffield
I must say I was harrumphing a bit about the strike on Tuesday when I had to get the 90 minute X78 instead of my lovely 25 minute 170 from Sheffield to Doncaster, but having seen the offer I am now behind the RMT. The offer is taking the p*ss.
 

Wolfie

Established Member
Joined
17 Aug 2010
Messages
6,050
I must say I was harrumphing a bit about the strike on Tuesday when I had to get the 90 minute X78 instead of my lovely 25 minute 170 from Sheffield to Doncaster, but having seen the offer I am now behind the RMT. They are taking the p*ss.
The same sort of p*ss take that the public sector has been subjected to since 2010.
 

Iskra

Established Member
Joined
11 Jun 2014
Messages
7,787
Location
West Riding
With the Conservative Party getting weaker and weaker every day, will this make matters easier for the RMT when negotiating a deal for the current dispute?
No, because there is still a long time until the general election, so there is no need for them to avoid the strikes and come to a deal.
 

Whistler40145

Established Member
Joined
30 Apr 2010
Messages
5,911
Location
Lancashire
And MerseyRail who receive no government funding are discussing a far better pay increase all because Shapps isn't involved thank goodness
 

Shrop

On Moderation
Joined
6 Aug 2019
Messages
649
I certainly have that as part of my motivation. Immense pride in the system and hope and pray that can remain.
That's really good to hear.

The reality is that most people who strike are only in it for themselves. Now you can't blame them, that's what strikes are for, to improve your own conditions.

But it belies the fact that for all Mick Lynch calls this a fight for the working class, it really isn't. And it certainly isn't to improve the railway!

It is a dispute about pay, conditions and redundancies - no more or less than that. Any repercussions are merely an unfortunate side effect, as far as both sides are concerned.
That is not.
 

ar10642

Member
Joined
10 Aug 2015
Messages
576
Surely the reason that pension age entitlement has been raised is exactly the opposite ? ie life expectancy has increased meaning people are drawing a pension for 30 years or more, not the more usual 5 or so when pensions first started !
Probably. To be honest I don't even want to retire particularly, I'd rather have some purpose to my day rather than "pottering" or whatever it is people do.
 

Horizon22

Established Member
Associate Staff
Jobs & Careers
Joined
8 Sep 2019
Messages
7,448
Location
London
Are air traffic controllers (who I presume you're talking about) really paid much better than signallers?

NATS says:



It looks pretty comparable to the railway TBH.

It was pilots and ATCs, the former generally well paid.

Very true. But of course such an ambition is still enshrined in the RMT Rule book (Rule 1.4(b)).

Sure, and some of the RMT’s general aims are…interesting but the comms to date has certainly not had the same tone as it has in recent years.
 

johnnychips

Established Member
Joined
19 Nov 2011
Messages
3,676
Location
Sheffield
The same sort of p*ss take that the public sector has been subjected to since 2010.
Quite. I was in the public sector till 2017, and my current job’s wages are linked to it. Unfortunately we didn’t have the balls to do anything about it.
 

Horizon22

Established Member
Associate Staff
Jobs & Careers
Joined
8 Sep 2019
Messages
7,448
Location
London
The same sort of p*ss take that the public sector has been subjected to since 2010.

So therefore other sectors have to just wait to be p***ed on do they? Other unions being toothless and scared of strike action is hardly the RMTs concern.
 

Wolfie

Established Member
Joined
17 Aug 2010
Messages
6,050
Probably. To be honest I don't even want to retire particularly, I'd rather have some purpose to my day rather than "pottering" or whatever it is people do.
I felt the same when l was in my 20s. In my late 50s after medical issues strangely enough l feel rather different but when l do go have every intention of keeping busy.

So therefore other sectors have to just wait to be p***ed on do they? Other unions being toothless and scared of strike action is hardly the RMTs concern.
Did l say that? It was a straight observation, no side either way.
 

Philip

On Moderation
Joined
27 May 2007
Messages
3,647
Location
Manchester
The reality is that most people who strike are only in it for themselves. Now you can't blame them, that's what strikes are for, to improve your own conditions.

But it belies the fact that for all Mick Lynch calls this a fight for the working class, it really isn't. And it certainly isn't to improve the railway!

It is a dispute about pay, conditions and redundancies - no more or less than that. Any repercussions are merely an unfortunate side effect, as far as both sides are concerned.

That is a sweeping generalisation to make, and inaccurate at that. Many workers in my grade are striking in solidarity with colleagues or to make a statement to the government, rather than because they think it will lead to better pay and conditions.
 

notadriver

Established Member
Joined
1 Oct 2010
Messages
3,653
its typically a 6-8 week course, assuming you are already a commercial pilot.

thats similar in concept to learnign a new type of traction once you are already a qualified driver.

I was once given a different type of coach to drive. I was given a 10 minute walk around and good to go.
 

Bertie the bus

Established Member
Joined
15 Aug 2014
Messages
2,781
That is a sweeping generalisation to make, and inaccurate at that. Many workers in my grade are striking in solidarity with colleagues or to make a statement to the government, rather than because they think it will lead to better pay and conditions.
What message would that be then?

Suppose, if by some miracle, the RMT negotiators manage to achieve all of their stated aims presumably you would vote to continue the strike unless the government agreed to a similar settlement for all public sector workers if you are striking for the good of all?
 

Meole

Member
Joined
28 Oct 2018
Messages
452
Agree on the risks of making comparisons, and believe MPs are still underpaid (probably a minority view), but in the interest of fairness, 2.7% was just for this year alone. Since my last rise, MPs have had a rise 8.4%.

So whilst still below inflation, yes I would accept a no strings increase of 8.4% to match MPs.
MP 2.7 increase was derived from the public sector average last year, that is the method used.

Most MPs (even these days) are in safe seats and have a job for life as long as they keep their noses clean. So yes.
Average tenure is approx 18 years currently
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Top