Railway books discussion

[Calthrop]

I've read that story, a very long time ago: my faded and incomplete memory, being of a dour / doleful / downbeat tale of a man, sick unto death, going home to Moffat to die (I seem to recall that he doesn't make it, but expires at Beattock). So -- oh dear, Cunninghame Graham's face must have been red ! The wayside-stations error was not in my memory, from reading of the story -- maybe back then, I was myself not very well-informed about the finer points of Northern railway geography. Attempted dreaming-up of scenarios to justify, would have to be pretty desperate and far-fetched: some calamitous blockage of the West Coast Main north of Penrith, requiring the express to be diverted? Hardly: it would seem that back in those days, there was no physical link at Appleby between NER and Midland metals.

 

[pitdiver]

I liked "London's Metroplitan Railway" by Alan A. Jackson. Not only because I worked on the Met for 6 years but I met his daughter in June and had a wonderful conversation about her father and my time on the Met

 

[yorksrob]

There is a notorious case of faulty geography in R.B Cunninghame Graham's short story "Beattock for Moffat". The hero is on an overnight LNWR train for Scotland, which is said to stop an instant at Shap "to let a goods train pass", which sounds peculiar. They then stop at Penrith, and then "Little Salkeld and Armathwaite, Cotehill and Scotby all rushed past". The problem is that those 4 places are stations on the Midland route down the Eden Valley.

Yes, that sounds a bit of a Horlicks !

 

[John Webb]

A story with a strong railway connection is Dorothy L Sayer's detective novel "Five Red Herrings". Set in Scotland in the Galloway area, it relies a lot on the railways of the area and various trips to and from Glasgow which the murderer uses to try and cover his tracks. Without access to a time-table of the 1920s (it seems to be set about the time of the Grouping) she seems to have constructed an accurate tale as far as the railways are concerned.

 

[Calthrop]

A story with a strong railway connection is Dorothy L Sayer's detective novel "Five Red Herrings". Set in Scotland in the Galloway area, it relies a lot on the railways of the area and various trips to and from Glasgow which the murderer uses to try and cover his tracks. Without access to a time-table of the 1920s (it seems to be set about the time of the Grouping) she seems to have constructed an accurate tale as far as the railways are concerned.

I loved that one, when read it -- to a considerable extent, because of the involvement of the area's railways: largely indeed, the Dumfries -- Stranraer route and its offshoots (some fun had with those lines' generous schedules and slow and leisurely working). Have always had the impression that Sayers was a bod of formidable intelligence and switched-on-ness, who overwhelmingly got her factual details -- including rail ones -- right. "5RH" published in 1931 -- impression, again, got by me that Sayers's detective novels set at times basically close to the date of their publication: thus, with this one, well into the Grouping era?

Oddly, I've found that the keen detective-fiction buffs seem to have a considerable "down" on this particular one among the Lord Peter Wimsey stories: seemingly, because they find the plotting and general "mystery" construction over-elaborate and far-fetched, and / or generally weak. With my not being anything like on a "geek" level of 'tec-story fandom; I just found the book excellent fun, not only for its rail element and attractive setting !

 

[Gloster]

I also found ‘Five Red Herrings’ one of Sayers’ most enjoyable books, even if she (metaphorically) waves a crucial plot point under the reader’s nose while (sort of) saying’ only the more cultured members of the middle-classes will see what is missing’. In it she mentions a couple of other detective novels, including Freeman Wills Crofts’ ‘Sir John Magill’s Last Journey’, which I consider to be an excellent detective novel: it would certainly be high in my top ten, probably in the top three.

 

[Western Sunset]

Then there's "The 39 Steps", of course. In probably the best-known TV version, Hannay aims for Killin. Wonder if that was chosen for its name?

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Then there's "The 39 Steps", of course. In probably the best-known TV version, Hannay aims for Killin. Wonder if that was chosen for its name?

Just to be clear, which TV version of "The 39 Steps" are you referring to? The 2008 version with Rupert Penry-Jones and Lydia Leonard? Do they go anywhere near Killin in that version?

 

[Western Sunset]

Sorry, meant film version. The Hitchcock one with Robert Donat.

 

[Calthrop]

If I recall rightly (as often -- my last reading of The 39 Steps was decades ago): the action of the book, all takes place south of the Edinburgh -- Glasgow line. (Not implying that the book is necessarily better than any subsequent "filmic / tellyish interpretations / travesties" -- just considering geographical "were's and weren't's".)

My favourite of this "bracketing World War I" quartet by Buchan, is the second therein, Greenmantle; for my money, a terrific yarn. With some, though not a huge amount of, rail-related content: I seem to recall Hannay and his sidekick Pieter -- needing to get unobtrusively into Turkey -- catching an unofficial ride on a freight train heading for Istanbul, out of the Balkan countries.

 

[Gloster]

I think that the geography of the Scottish section of The 39 Steps is a bit vague, but Hannay seems to leave a train somewhere on the Portpatrick & Wigtownshire, head vaguely north and then east before catching the train back south (from Beattock, I think). There have been a number of learned discussions about the route, but I doubt that Buchan really planned it in detail.

 

[AndrewE]

I also found ‘Five Red Herrings’ one of Sayers’ most enjoyable books, even if she (metaphorically) waves a crucial plot point under the reader’s nose while (sort of) saying’ only the more cultured members of the middle-classes will see what is missing’. In it she mentions a couple of other detective novels, including Freeman Wills Crofts’ ‘Sir John Magill’s Last Journey’, which I consider to be an excellent detective novel: it would certainly be high in my top ten, probably in the top three.

Time I read 5RH again... Freeman Wills Crofts books were good too. I remember one involving a big coal stock-pile that was being stolen from underneath by miners employed by the Mr Big. There were a few of them in Crewe library 45 years ago but they are a thing of the past now.
The Riddle of the Sands by Erskine Childers has some very good bits describing using the pre-1st world war railways around the N German coast - they are fundamental to the outcome too.

 

[Calthrop]

A bit remiss of JB; but he probably wasn't too worried about potential disapproval from the probably small potential railway-nut segment of his readership !

(Reply to @Gloster's post #131 -- "ninja'd" by @AndrewE's intervening post.)

 

[Calthrop]

The Riddle of the Sands by Erskine Childers has some very good bits describing using the pre-1st world war railways around the N German coast - they are fundamental to the outcome too.

A seeming personal failing of mine: I find spy fiction -- generally reckoned ipso facto highly exciting -- tedious in the extreme (the cognoscenti almost universally rave over John Le Carre -- what I tried of his stuff, bored me to tears). This very much went, with me, for The Riddle of the Sands: I read it long ago -- managed to finish it -- but it was for me, basically soporific; and I have totally forgotten about the first-hand rail involvement therein, as above.

Perversely, one small trivial rail-related (though not intended, or referred to, thus by the author) matter stays with me from Riddle of ... Earlyish in the book, the heroes -- in the course of their sailing round and about the coasts of Germany -- call in at what was then Sonderburg, on the Baltic near Flensburg: a town in an area formerly, and now once again, in Denmark; but at the time of the action of Riddle of ... , in Germany -- with Germany having conquered in the mid-1860s, this southern part (with a minority of ethnically German inhabitants) of mainland Denmark; until its restoration to Denmark shortly after World War I -- Sonderburg becoming once again Sonderborg.

In the chapter on Denmark in Peter Allen and P.B. Whitehouse's book Narrow Gauge Railways of Europe, published about 1960: the authors wax, in my opinion, more vitriolic than is called-for, about a policy employed by Germany re this part of the world during their 19th / early 20th century tenure of it: viz. the building therein, of extensive metre-gauge light railways abundantly provided with stations, in the area concerned, "as part of a plan to introduce as many Germans as possible into the area, these in the form of railwaymen [and by inference, their families]". (Sonderborg / Sonderburg was the focal point of one of these m/g systems.) Ethically dubious, one may reckon -- but would seem in my view: in comparison with the Nazis' excesses some decades later, extremely "weak sauce". Plus, if I had been a Dane living in that area in those times; would figure that the inauguration of all this delectable metre-gauge, would have evoked in me feelings of liking and reconciliation vis-a-vis the German occupiers, rather than resentment -- of course, in the eyes of normal folk, railway enthusiasts are somewhat funny in the head . (The metre-gauge systems in this area, "North Schleswig", were all closed completely, or standard-gauged, in the course of the 1920s / 30s; not because of loathing on the part of the Danes -- a sensible people -- of "foul little Hun railways"; just the way of things throughout western Europe in those times, with road motor traffic in the ascendant.)

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Then there's "The 39 Steps", of course. In probably the best-known TV version, Hannay aims for Killin. Wonder if that was chosen for its name?

Just to be clear, which TV version of "The 39 Steps" are you referring to? The 2008 version with Rupert Penry-Jones and Lydia Leonard? Do they go anywhere near Killin in that version?

Sorry, meant film version. The Hitchcock one with Robert Donat.

Not sure that the 1935 version, with Robert Donat and Madeleine Carroll portraying the two lead characters, did ever made it to Killin, as most of the exterior sequences supposedly in Scotland were apparently filmed in the Lime Grove Studios (in Shepherd's Bush).

The 1959 version with Kenneth More, did, however, make it to the Killin area, although if I rightly recall, the locality was re-badged as 'Glenkirk' in that particular film.

 

[Sir Felix Pole]

In the 1935 film, the 'Forth Bridge' scene with Robert Donat hiding behind a pillar, was shot on the (then) lightly used Hertford Loop, with a mock-up of part of the steelwork constructed alongside the track at Stapleford. This was handy for the studios. The long shots of the bridge are real, however, but the subsequent escape across moorland was filmed in Glencoe - nowhere near the bridge!

 

[Mcr Warrior]

In the 1935 film... the subsequent escape across moorland was filmed in Glencoe - nowhere near the bridge!

Indeed. A hundred or so miles between the two? Reputedly also the Glencoe scenes in the 1935 film were shot by a second unit and featured a stunt double and not Robert Donat himself!

 

[Calthrop]

Indeed. A hundred or so miles between the two? Reputedly also the Glencoe scenes in the 1935 film were shot by a second unit and featured a stunt double and not Robert Donat himself!

By my measurement, about eighty miles -- pretty much "same-same". Although -- what with Scotland being basically, fairly big; I'm sometimes surprised by how relatively short the distance between places in different parts of the country, can be.

 

[Iskra]

I recently read: Beeching- The Definitive Guide: A Complete History of the Sixties Railway Closures by Robin Jones.

I found it an excellent history, but also quite balanced- able to see the obvious follies but it points out that people, organisations and governments immediately after Beeching had the opportunity to stop or reverse the closures but did not do so. It also highlights some of the successes to come from Beeching's work, such as; block trains, the rise of intermodal trains and Freighliner.

 

[nanstallon]

I recently read: Beeching- The Definitive Guide: A Complete History of the Sixties Railway Closures by Robin Jones.

I found it an excellent history, but also quite balanced- able to see the obvious follies but it points out that people, organisations and governments immediately after Beeching had the opportunity to stop or reverse the closures but did not do so. It also highlights some of the successes to come from Beeching's work, such as; block trains, the rise of intermodal trains and Freighliner.

The 60s are the most interesting time for me - a bitter-sweet time, when I rushed around chasing steam and branch lines. Enjoying the delights of a network that was clearly doomed. I read pretty well anything about that time, and feel that Beeching was very maligned. Things could not go on forever as they were and he was basically right, but went a bit too far. He didn't have the final say, and his proposals could have been modified - indeed to some extent they were in Northern Highlands and Central Wales. Closer study shows that a lot of lines that Beeching didn't recommend for closure were in fact closed in the late 60s by (it seems) fanatics who closed anything they could - Swanage, Okehampton (a mistake now being put right), Hunstanton, Kings Lynn - Wymondham, the lines around Alloa including the other Forth Bridge (one line from Stirling has been reopened), etc. The Beeching Report itself is a good read, also 'Last Trains' by Charles Loft. 'British Rail - The Nations Railway' by Tanya Jackson and 'Losing Track' by Kerry Hamilton and Stephen Potter have helped me to understand the British Rail era.

 

[Union St]

Apologies! I should have recommended this book a long time ago (because I wrote it). And I knew nothing of railways, but I can attest the parts that include trains were written by the members of this forum, so I think they are accurate. Why not read it and let me know?

 

[Cowley]

Apologies! I should have recommended this book a long time ago (because I wrote it). And I knew nothing of railways, but I can attest the parts that include trains were written by the members of this forum, so I think they are accurate. Why not read it and let me know?
View attachment 105229

Go on then, you talked me into it and I’ve just ordered a copy.

 

[EbbwJunction1]

You won't regret it, it's very good - with a twist in the tail as well!

 

[Union St]

Thank you so much. I thanked this forum in the Acknowledgments, because so many people contributed, but I couldn't add each name. I know you'll like it, and let me know if you think it lacks authenticity.

 

[Titfield]

Great British Bus Journeys, Travels Through Unfamous Places by David McKie

There are not so many books about bus travel, but I just looked this out to read again, McKie is a versatile wordsmith like Hunter Davies, finds interest, fascination in 'ordinary' places
..
Two books entitled 'Flying Scotsman' sit together in my library. One is a worthy account of a famous locomotive, the other is by Graeme Obree who had success in cycle sport using unconventional equipment and techniques, quite exciting
..
Does anyone else have suggestions for bus + tram books?

There are even fewer books about bus and coach travel as a business history though since privatisation there have been a small number.

One (actually two because it is two volumes) fascinating book is A History of Grey-Green by Tom MacLachlan. It tells the story of one of the big London coach operators which morphed into Arriva the bus operator.

 

[Busaholic]

The most fascinating transport book I own (amongst dozens, possibly hundreds) is ''London's Last Trams'' by Hugh Taylor published by Adam Gordon in 2013 and now out of print, but secondhand copies are available I believe. It cost £40 new IIRC, and even as a bookseller I paid full price for it and didn't regret it, far from it. It's really about Last Tram Week in June/July 1952 with contemporary accounts and details, with many previously unpublished photographs, not just of the trams but of the surrounding street scenes which show so much social history. I have to admit a prior interest in that I lived in the part of S.E. London where the trams still ran and can just about remember them, being aged four when they were withdrawn, and went on them several times, including on the last day (not evening though!) It definitively, to my mind, proves that the 'official' last tram was by no means the last in public service: this was already known, but the extent to which the official version was wrong is gobsmacking. For a start, they chose the wrong depot, of the two remaining, for the ceremony, as any scheduler could have told them, but even then there's a sting in the tail. Would I had been old enough to be there! I honestly think anyone with an interest in U.K. tram operation, postwar social history and delving so completely into a partial myth shouldn't think twice at spending up to £20 for it. Hugh Taylor, by the way, has authored many excellent books on London's trolleybus system.

 

[MoleStation]

My gran bought me my first book about railways. British Railways Past and Present No.4 The North East when it was published. Since then, especially over the past decade I've tried to collect as many books about 'round here' as possible. Here's my favourites -

 

[Calthrop]

Have just come across, purely by chance, mention of a particular novel by China Mieville -- with whose work I'm not familiar; was aware only that he's a prolific author of very varied, and very weird, fiction. It seems that this particular one is called Railsea; it's a re-working of Moby Dick, but involving the hunting of giant killer moles from trains . Sample bit of "blurb": "On board the moletrain 'Meles, 'Sham Yes ap Soorap watches in awe as he witnesses his first moldywarphunt. The giant mole bursting from the earth, the harpoonists targeting their prey, the battle resulting in one's death and the other's glory. But no matter how spectacular it is, 'Sham can't shake the sense that there is more to life than travelling the endless rails of the railsea -- even if his captain can think only of the hunt for the ivory-coloured mole she's been chasing since it took her arm all those years ago..." -- and we learn incidentally, that the Fat Controller from "Thomas" plays a cameo role in the novel...

My attention was chiefly attracted by the railway-related aspect of this described work. One wonders whether on closer acquaintance, it might be felt to be wonderfully and absorbingly mad -- or, just plain mad...

Having recently come upon a copy of this work in a charity shop, I gave it a try. Would rate it better than awful; but not really my cup of tea: not being one who feels a moral obligation to finish any book which I start, I carried on as far as p. 80 -- a little over a quarter of the way through -- and then "bailed". Would reckon it competently, if a bit eccentrically, written; but for me, not such as to give any high degree of pleasure, or hold the attention -- or indeed to motivate me to carry on until the Fat Controller's showing up ! It's as indicated above -- centred on the scenario of a planet a lot like Earth, and the characters are human: but with, occupying the place and role of Earth's seas and oceans, great tracts of contaminated earth riddled with remains of presumably human artefacts from various past ages, and inhabited by highly-predatory life-forms; these areas gridded almost global-marshalling-yard-wise, with a dense network of rail lines (their origin unexplained, unless there was something which went over my head). A parallel as close as possible is depicted, between the great numbers of trains with their individual operators, which ply this "railsea" for numerous purposes; and seagoing shipping (essentially as of before the modern era) in our world. This includes the "moling trains", equivalent as closely-drawn as the author can make it, to our world's whaling ships.

My general reaction was, "quite a flight of the imagination -- if a somewhat laboured and tortured one -- but really, so what?". No story-line or other feature, sufficient to make me want to keep reading. The book could well be a delight for those who are greater fans of science fantasy / super-imaginative-and-speculative fiction, than I am. Glad anyway to have tried it, and found out what it was like for my tastes.

 

[AndrewE]

My general reaction was, "quite a flight of the imagination -- if a somewhat laboured and tortured one -- but really, so what?". No story-line or other feature, sufficient to make me want to keep reading. Th book could well be a delight for those who are greater fans of science fantasy / super-imaginative-and-speculative fiction, than I am. Glad anyway to have tried it, and found out what it was like for my tastes.

This reminds me of Angelmaker (2013) by Nick Harkaway. A(nother) "spy thriller detailing a clockmaker's attempt to stop a Cold War era doomsday weapon." (Wikipedia) A very heavy read, but in the end it was worth persevering... Not for nothing is the genre called "Steampunk!"

 

[Calthrop]

This reminds me of Angelmaker (2013) by Nick Harkaway. A(nother) "spy thriller detailing a clockmaker's attempt to stop a Cold War era doomsday weapon." (Wikipedia) A very heavy read, but in the end it was worth persevering... Not for nothing is the genre called "Steampunk!"

Nick Harkaway is totally new to me; as intimated, I think, earlier -- I do some dabbling in the shallows of speculative fiction / fantasy, but am very far from heavily "into" it. Feel intrigued by the work you mention here, and plan to look further. Have long been aware of the existence of the Steampunk genre, but -- inappropriately perhaps, for a lover of the steam locomotive and the steam age generally -- have not explored it. You describe Angelmaker as heavy, but worth it in the end; I give kudos to those who press on with books which they find a struggle; and who are sometimes ultimately, amply rewarded. I'm too self-indulgent to readily do that -- usually, if I've got some way in and it's a chore, not a pleasure: I "bail".

I recall an instance when that desired option was not available, and I unexpectedly "cashed in": having to "do"", for English A Level, Joseph Conrad's Nostromo -- the first four-fifths of the book, I found indescribably tedious; then it spectacularly took off, and I found it un-put-down-able.