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Calthrop

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Will Darjeeling do?
Himalayan Mountain Railway

I'm not going to be a Scrooge and insist on totally accurate nomenclature: strictly-correct name, the Darjeeling Himalayan Railway -- private company, nationalised in 1951 and thence part of, over the years, assorted different zones of India's national rail undertaking. (Comprised at full extent, the still-active line from the broad-gauge junction, up to Darjeeling; plus a couple of other routes, one way or another no longer functioning on the system's 2ft. gauge.) Clearly this is the railway meant by both above: @M-Train, you got in first, by roughly an hour.

Punjab Railway

Embarrassingly, this was one unknown to me -- having consulted the oracle: yes, an early undertaking by that very name, in the Lahore area: ran under the name of Punjab Railway 1861 -- 1870, after which merged with other lines, involving changes of name.

@Gloster, @DerekC, @M-Train, @xotGD : each of you four gentlemen has one correct and in-time entry. Would you be willing for the winner to be determined by a first-past-the-post tie-breaker question -- Indian-rail-themed, but not necessarily about further pre-Independence companies?
 

DerekC

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OK with me

For interest, Mr Pedia lists 214 railway companies in India - see:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_railway_companies_in_India

  • Ahmedabad–Dholka Railway
  • Ahmedabad–Prantij Railway
  • Alnavar–Dandeli Railway
  • Amraoti State Railway
  • Amritsar–Patti Railway
  • Assam Behar Railway
  • Assam Railways and Trading Company
  • Assam Railway
  • Assam Railway Link Project
  • Bahawalpur Royal Railway
  • Barharwa–Azimganj–Katwa Railway
  • Baria State Railway
  • Barsi Light Railway
  • Barun–Daltonganj Railway
  • Bengal and North Western Railway
  • Bengal Assam Railway
  • Bengal Central Railway
  • Bengal Dooars Railway
  • Bengal Provincial Railway
  • Bengal Nagpur Railway
  • Bezwada Extension Railway
  • Bhagalpur Badli Railway
  • Bhavnagar State Railway
  • Bhavnagar Tramway
  • Bhopal State Railway
  • Bikaner State Railway
  • Bilaspur–Etawa Provincial State Railway
  • Bina–Goona–Baran Railway
  • Birur–Shimoga Railway
  • Bombay Port Railway
  • Bombay, Agra and Delhi Railway
  • Bombay, Baroda and Central India Railway
  • Bowringpet–Chikballapur Railway
  • Brihanmumbai Electric Supply and Transport
  • Calcutta Chord Railway
  • Calcutta Port Commissioner's Railway
  • Calcutta Tramways Company
  • Carnatic Railway
  • Cawnpore Tramways and General Electric Works
  • Cawnpore–Barabanki Railway
  • Central India Railway
  • Central Indian Coalfields Railway
  • Central Provinces Railway
  • Central Salsette Tramway
  • Chaparmukh Silghat Railway
  • Cherra Companyganj State Railways
  • Chickjajur–Chitaldrug Railway
  • Chikballapur–Bangalore City Railway
  • Cooch Behar State Railway
  • Cutch State Railway
  • Dacca State Railway
  • Dandot Light Railway
  • Darbhanga State Railway
  • Darjeeling Himalayan Railway
  • Daund–Baramati Railway
  • Dehri Rohtas Light Railway
  • Delhi Electric Tramways and Lighting Company
  • Delhi Railway
  • Delhi–Umballa–Kalka Railway
  • Deoghur Railway
  • Dhampur–Sherkot Tramway
  • Dholka–Dhandhuka Railway
  • Dholpur State Railway
  • Dhond–Manmad State Railway
  • Dhrangadra Railway
  • Dibru–Sadiya Railway
  • Drangdhara State Railway
  • East Bengal State Railway
  • East Coast State Railway
  • East India Tramway Company
  • East Indian Railway
  • Eastern Bengal Railway
  • Eastern Punjab Railway
  • Gaekwar's Baroda State Railway
  • Gaekwar's Dabhoi Railway
  • Gaekwar's Mehsana Railway
  • Godhra–Rutlam–Nagda Railway
  • Gondal State Railway
  • Gondia Chanda Railway
  • Great Indian Peninsula Railway
  • Great Southern of India Railway
  • Guntakal–Mysore Frontier Railway
  • Guzerat Railway Company
  • Gwalior Light Railway
  • Hardwar–Dehra Railway
  • Hindupur–Yesvantpur Railway
  • Holkar State Railway
  • Hooghly Katwa Railway
  • Hospet Kottur Railway
  • Hyderabad–Jodhpur Railway
  • Indian Branch Railway
  • Indian Government Railway
  • Indian Midland Railway
  • Indian Mill and Railway Company
  • Indus Flotilla Railway
  • Indus Valley State Railway
  • Jaipur State Railway
  • Jamnagar and Dwarka Railway
  • Jessore–Jhenidah Light Railway
  • Jetalsar–Rajkot Railway
  • Jhansi–Manikpore State Railway
  • Jind–Panipat Railway
  • Jodhpur–Bikaner Railway
  • Jorhat State Railway
  • Jubbulpore Gondia Extension Railway
  • Junagadh State Railway
  • Kalka–Shimla Railway
  • Kandla Port Railway
  • Kandhar State Railway
  • Kangra Valley Railway
  • Karaikkal–Peralam Railway
  • Katakhal Lalbazar Railway
  • Kathiawar State Railway
  • Katni–Umaria Provincial State Railway
  • Kaunia–Dharlla State Railway
  • Kaunia–Kurigram Railway
  • Khamgaon State Railway
  • Khanai–Hindubagh Railway
  • Khijadiya–Dhari Railway
  • Khulna–Bagerhat Railway
  • Kolar Gold Fields Railway
  • Kolhapur State Railway
  • Kundala Valley Railway
  • Kushalgarh–Kohat–Thal Railway
  • Larkana–Jacobabad Railway
  • Ledo and Tikak Margherita Colliery Railway
  • Lucknow–Bareilly State Railway
  • Ludhiana–Dhuri–Jakhal Railway
  • Madras and Southern Mahratta Railway
  • Madras Electric Tramways
  • Madras Port Trust Railways
  • Madras Railway
  • Mandra–Bhon Railway
  • Martin's Light Railways
  • Mashrak–Thawe Extension Railway
  • Matheran Hill Railway
  • Mayurbhanj State Railway
  • McLeod's Light Railways
  • Mewar State Railway
  • Morvi Railway
  • Muttra–Achnera Provincial State Railway
  • Muttra–Hathras Provincial State Railway
  • Mymensingh–Bhairab Bazar Railway
  • Mysore State Railway
  • Mysore–Arsikere Railway
  • Mysore–Nanjangud Railway
  • Nagda–Ujjain Railway
  • Nagpur Chhattisgarh Railway
  • Nagpur–Chhindwara Railway
  • Nainpur–Mandla Branch Railway
  • Nanjangud–Chamrajnagar Railway
  • Nasik Tramway
  • Nepal–Janakpur Railway
  • Nilgiri Mountain Railway
  • Nizam's Guaranteed State Railway
  • Noakhali Railway
  • North Western State Railway
  • Northeast Frontier Railways
  • Nowshera–Durgai Railway
  • Okhamandal State Railway
  • Oudh and Rohilkhand Railway
  • Oudh and Tirhut Railway
  • Oudh State Railway
  • Pachora Jamner Railway
  • Palanpur–Deesa Railway
  • Panposh–Raipura Railway
  • Parlakimedi Light Railway
  • Pathankot–Mukerian Link Project
  • Patiala State Monorail Trainways
  • Patna and Gaya State Railway
  • Patna Tramways
  • Patri State Railway
  • Petlad–Cambay Railway
  • Piplod–Devgad–Baria Railway
  • Pondicherry Railway
  • Punjab Northern State Railway
  • Punjab Railway
  • Purulia Ranchi Light Railway
  • Raipur Dhamtari Railway
  • Rajkot–Beti Tramway
  • Rajpipla State Railway
  • Rajputana–Malwa Railway
  • Ranaghat–Krishnanagar Railway
  • Rohilkund and Kumaon Railway
  • Sangli State Railway
  • Santipur–Nabadwip Light Railway
  • Sara–Sirajgunj Railway
  • Satpura Railway
  • Saurashtra Railway
  • Scinde Railways
  • Scinde, Punjab & Delhi Railway
  • Segowlie–Roxaul Railway
  • Shakuntala Railway
  • Shoranur–Cochin Railway
  • Sind Sagaar Railway
  • Sind–Pishin State Railway
  • South Behar Railway
  • South Indian Railway
  • Southern Mahratta Railway
  • Southern Punjab Railway
  • Tanjore District Board Railway
  • Tapti Valley Railway
  • Tarkessuar Railways
  • Tezpore–Balipara Light Railway
  • Tinnevelly–Quilon Railway
  • Tirhut Railway
  • Trans–Baluchistan Railway
  • Tumsar–Tirodi Light Railway
  • Udaipur–Chittorgarh Railway
  • Vijapur–Kalol–Kadi Railway
  • Visakhapatnam Port Trust Railway
  • Wardha State Coal Railway
  • West of India Portuguese Railway
  • Zhob Valley Railway
 
Last edited:

Calthrop

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Sounds good to me! :lol:
OK with me

@Gloster has "withdrawn". @xotGD and @DerekC: I propose the following; will set the tie-breaker -- the first in with a correct answer, poses the next question. Although no answer re this, from @M-Train -- I see including him too, should he happen to see this post and come in first, and correctly.

Tie-breaker question: please give all of the several different gauges on which public passenger railways have run, in the approx. century-and-a-half so far of railways in the Indian sub-continent -- "mainstream" stuff re same, being looked at; not "freakish one-offs".



Wondrous list -- thank you ! Am pleased to see that it includes the splendidly crazy Patiala State Monorail Trainways, a loco of which is preserved in the Delhi railway museum. 214 is quite a score. While I haven't in any way extensively checked; I would suspect that Great Britain (despite purely geographical differences of size) would -- by the same criteria -- clock up rather more, over the century or so between the beginning of public railways, and the Grouping. In part, I'd figure, because GB began on this scene, three-decades-odd before India; and the ownership-and-amalgamations stuff happened rather more messily here, than over there.
 

xotGD

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I'll guess Standard Gauge, Metre Gauge and 2-foot Gauge, but I really have no idea.
 

DerekC

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Delete standard gauge and replace with 5ft 6in gauge. The other two (metre and 2-foot (60cm)) are right, I think, but what others were there? Given British influence I am going to suggest 2ft 6in gauge. (Does the monorail count as zero gauge?)


I have a sort of personal interest in this because my 3xGGrandfather went to India in the 1840s to survey a possible route for what became the GIPR over the Ghats. They didn't use his route, sadly. On his return he wrote a paper which was a plea for the local population to be able to benefit from the investment that was going in and that they should very soon be given their independence. (I am quite proud of him, although he was about 100 years ahead of his time!).
 
Last edited:

Calthrop

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Delete standard gauge and replace with 5ft 6in gauge. The other two (metre and 2-foot (60cm)) are right, I think, but what others were there? Given British influence I am going to suggest 2ft 6in gauge. (Does the monorail count as zero gauge?)

You've got it -- 5ft 6in, metre; and truly-n/g local lines: 2ft. (relatively few lines and systems -- I think, only two now remaining: Darjeeling-Himalayan, and Neral -- Matheran near Bombay); and indeed, many 2ft 6in local lines and systems, all over the country. Nowadays there doesn't remain a great deal of anything which isn't 5ft 6in -- a very large amount of regauging / closures in the past couple of decades -- but I'm pretty well certain that there's some metre / 2ft 6in / 2ft still in action. (I see the Patiala contrivance as a bit like our islands' Listowel & Ballybunion -- interesting and fun, but basically somewhat ludicrous, and RIP !)

@DerekC Sahib, the floor is yours !

I have a sort of personal interest in this because my 3xGGrandfather went to India in the 1840s to survey a possible route for what became the GIPR over the Ghats. They didn't use his route, sadly. On his return he wrote a paper which was a plea for the local population to be able to benefit from the investment that was going in and that they should very soon be given their independence. (I am quite proud of him, although he was about 100 years ahead of his time!).

This is fascinating -- your ancestor sounds a great guy; and with the fearsome gradients which the established route has to tackle out of Bombay, I can quite imagine that his route would have been a better choice !

If you have a taste for fiction -- I've just been re-reading, and much enjoying, The Far Pavilions by M.M. Kaye -- apologies if you already know all about this one; but, described as a sort of Gone With The Wind for India: love, politics and war in India -- British Raj, and princely states too -- and Afghanistan, in the third quarter of the 19th century. The author, born very early in the 20th century, was a child of the Raj -- spent her childhood, and much of her adult life, in India: knew and loved the place very well -- a fair few of her British characters in the novel feel, like your ancestor, a high regard for the peoples of India: some wish to give them a much greater say in their own destiny.

(I take issue with Ms. Kaye on one small and basically trivial point -- have recently made a post in the "Memorabilia and whatever" sub-forum about it. She's trying for a bit of local colour, and getting it wrong -- at one point, in 1878, the hero is having to travel from Ahmadabad to Peshawar, or wherever was at that time the railhead for the North-West Frontier. She makes out that his journey will be bedevilled with a wild mish-mash of different gauges, Australian-style: in fact, India's gauges situation was never that chaotic; and in 1878, Ahmadabad -- Delhi -- the Frontier would have been 5ft 6in all the way, "no messing" ! As I say, highly trivial: doesn't detract in any way from the plot or flow of the story, and only beyond-hope railway nerds would be bothered by it !)
 

DerekC

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I will guess at Richard Trevithick and Robert Stephenson.
Absolutely right. I thought Robert Stephenson's trip to South America was well known but Richard Trevithick might be more difficult. I wonder if they discussed steam locomotive design - it seems likely!

Your next leg of the voyage.
 

Gloster

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How many British Railways Standard steam locomotives received permanent, official names during their normal working life? And, if possible, how many of each class?
 

Peter Mugridge

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I would guess at all the Britannias ( 55 built ), all the Clans ( 10 built ) plus Duke of Gloucester and Evening Star.

Which I make to be 67?
 

Cowley

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I would guess at all the Britannias ( 55 built ), all the Clans ( 10 built ) plus Duke of Gloucester and Evening Star.

Which I make to be 67?

There were also some Standard 5s on the Southern Region (73082 Camelot at the Bluebell Railway being the only survivor I believe), not sure how many though. Maybe ten of them?
I’m only adding this as an afterthought to Peters answer by the way.
 

Gloster

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I would guess at all the Britannias ( 55 built ), all the Clans ( 10 built ) plus Duke of Gloucester and Evening Star.

Which I make to be 67?
There were also some Standard 5s on the Southern Region (73082 Camelot at the Bluebell Railway being the only survivor I believe), not sure how many though. Maybe ten of them?
I’m only adding this as an afterthought to Peters answer by the way.
Both are still a fair way from the total.
 

Cowley

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Both are still a fair way from the total.

I’m stumped to be honest. Are you including things like Modified Halls that were built into the BR era? I assumed you just meant the Riddles Standard classes?
 

Gloster

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Only four of the 842 Stanier 5MT ‘Black Five’ 4-6-0s received official names while with the LMS and BR. What was the theme of these names, and I would like the answer to be as specific as possible?
 

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