Reading Travelcard - valid route to Travelcard area

[David Goddard]

Planning a trip to London but want to stop off at Leatherhead on the way.

When travelling from Wokingham, there are three Travelcard options - Any Permitted, Via Staines and "Ascot/Guildford", the latter of which I have previously understood to be valid via Guildford and then via a multitude of routes (including Leatherhead) to London.

From Reading, there is just an "Any Permitted" Travelcard - can anyone confirm whether this would be valid to take the route via Guildford as described above, as I cant get a journey planner to do so.

 

[JB_B]

Going from Reading to Ewell East map combination XR+DK gives you a route via Guildford,Effingham Junction,Leatherhead.

NRE will offer a Z1-6 travelcard for that journey if you specify via Guildford. ( Is that the route you were after?)

 

[plugwash]

My understanding is with an outboundry travelcard you can take an outward journey by any permitted route (subject to any route restrictions on the ticket) that does not pass through the travelcard area to any station on the boundry of the travelcard area. Then you can perform unlimited travel within the travelcard area, and finally you can make a return journey from any station on the boundary of the travelcard area (not nessacerally the one you entered at) back to your starting station via any permitted route that does not pass through the travelcard area.

If you were travelling via Leatherhead you would enter the travelcard zones at either ewell west or ewell east. The corresponding routing points are Epsom (for both), Motspur park (for west) and Sutton (for east). Epsom seems the most appropriate routing point here.

The list of maps for Reading to Epsom are LONDON AR WX+DK WX+HR XR+DK,

"LONDON" is obviously of no use to us.
"AR" allows travel via Workingham, Guilford, Dorking and Leatherhead.
"WX+DK" does not appear useful to us as all the routes it permits seem to go through the travelcard zones.
"WX+HR" does not appear useful to us as all the routes it permits seem to go through the travelcard zones.
"XR+DK" allows travel via Workingham, Guilford, Effingham Junction and Leatherhead.

Looks good to me. I was also able to get the journey planner to offer me the outboundary travelcard on journeys from Reading to Ewell East via Leatherhead.

 

[FenMan]

My understanding is with an outboundry travelcard you can take an outward journey by any permitted route (subject to any route restrictions on the ticket) that does not pass through the travelcard area to any station on the boundry of the travelcard area. Then you can perform unlimited travel within the travelcard area, and finally you can make a return journey from any station on the boundary of the travelcard area (not nessacerally the one you entered at) back to your starting station via any permitted route that does not pass through the travelcard area.

If you were travelling via Leatherhead you would enter the travelcard zones at either ewell west or ewell east. The corresponding routing points are Epsom (for both), Motspur park (for west) and Sutton (for east). Epsom seems the most appropriate routing point here.

The list of maps for Reading to Epsom are LONDON AR WX+DK WX+HR XR+DK,

"LONDON" is obviously of no use to us.
"AR" allows travel via Workingham, Guilford, Dorking and Leatherhead.
"WX+DK" does not appear useful to us as all the routes it permits seem to go through the travelcard zones.
"WX+HR" does not appear useful to us as all the routes it permits seem to go through the travelcard zones.
"XR+DK" allows travel via Workingham, Guilford, Effingham Junction and Leatherhead.

Looks good to me. I was also able to get the journey planner to offer me the outboundary travelcard on journeys from Reading to Ewell East via Leatherhead.

As the North Downs Line exists an out-boundary ANY PERMITTED Travelcard can be pretty flexible. But it's a quirk, as the ticket offer is clearly designed to use radial routes into London.

Entry points into the Travelcard 1-6 zones I can think of from my local North Downs Line station via permitted routes (shortest distance or mapped):-

West Drayton - via Reading
Feltham - via Wokingham and various other combinations
Surbiton - via Farnborough North/Main, North Camp/Ash Vale and Guildford
Ewell West - via Guildford
Ewell East - via Guildford
Coulsdon South - via Redhill
Knockholt - via Tonbridge

Also, travel to some SW London stations is valid via Dorking Deepdene/Dorking Main.

So, routes via Berkshire, Surrey, Sussex and Kent. Not bad!

A question. For the more "interesting" routes that wouldn't be permitted on a ticket from my local station to London Terminals, do I have to take services that stop at the Travelcard boundary stations?

 

[JonathanH]

Entry points into the Travelcard 1-6 zones I can think of from my local North Downs Line station via permitted routes (shortest distance or mapped):-

West Drayton - via Reading
Feltham - via Wokingham and various other combinations
Surbiton - via Farnborough North/Main, North Camp/Ash Vale and Guildford
Ewell West - via Guildford
Ewell East - via Guildford
Coulsdon South - via Redhill
Knockholt - via Tonbridge

I think that anything other than going via Slough or Staines will get a challenge from the guard on the North Downs Line train though. I wouldn't try any of the other ones without a printed itinerary.

On the other hand, the railway has had ample opportunity to restrict the routing to 'Via Slough / Ascot' and has never implemented this.

It will be interesting to see what happens once day travelcards are no longer issued as paper tickets and the routeing is checked electronically.

As the North Downs Line exists an out-boundary ANY PERMITTED Travelcard can be pretty flexible. But it's a quirk, as the ticket offer is clearly designed to use radial routes into London.

Indeed, very much so given the only two Boundary Zone 6 fares are routed via Slough and via Ascot.

 

[Paul Kelly]

For the more "interesting" routes that wouldn't be permitted on a ticket from my local station to London Terminals, do I have to take services that stop at the Travelcard boundary stations?

No. If that was the case then you couldn't use a Travelcard from Reading on a fast train to Paddington, which is obviously allowed.

 

[Bread & cheese]

My understanding is that a travelcard from Reading is only valid via Slough or Staines, not via Guildford.
This is because there is no permitted route from Reading to London Terminals via Guildford.

From the Routeing Guide:
Travelcards (outboundary)
The route you take between your origin station and the point at which you first cross into the London zonal area (Zones 1-9) should be the route valid for a journey to ‘London Terminals’, regardless of the zone(s) to which the ticket is actually valid or the combination of London Travelcards being used. This does not affect validity within the London zonal area, where you are permitted to use any eligible National Rail service within the zone(s) for which your Travelcard is valid.’ (Routeing Guide Instructions, page 7)

On the subject of permitted routes from Wokingham: an offpeak day return from Wokingham to London Terminals route any permitted can be used via Guildford, because it costs more than the route Ascot/Guildford ticket.

From the Routeing Guide:
An "any permitted" ticket... can be used on any route not listed in the Routeing Guide for which a lower priced route specific fare exists. (Routeing Guide Instructions, page 3)

The original poster might like to consider a combination of tickets to and from Wokingham.

 

[JB_B]

...
Knockholt - via Tonbridge
..

I don't think the approach to Knockholt from Tonbridge works as it's not a permitted route.


For Reading to Knockholt (any permitted) Sevenoaks fails the fares check as a destination routeing point - so the only mapped routes are via Orpington (in Z6). [And for completeness, it's ~25 miles over shortest route.]

 

[FenMan]

I don't think the approach to Knockholt from Tonbridge works as it's not a permitted route.


For Reading to Knockholt (any permitted) Sevenoaks fails the fares check as a destination routeing point - so the only mapped routes are via Orpington (in Z6). [And for completeness, it's ~25 miles over shortest route.]

NR Enquiries reports it's a valid route when using a Travelcard (I was surprised too).

No. If that was the case then you couldn't use a Travelcard from Reading on a fast train to Paddington, which is obviously allowed.

Perhaps my question was not clear, so I'll give examples. My local station is Blackwater.

A Blackwater - London terminals ANY PERMITTED ticket is valid for travel via Reading into Paddington and various routes into Waterloo, most popularly via Guildford or Wokingham, although using the walking interchanges between Farnborough North - Farnborough Main and North Camp - Ash Vale is also permitted.

This ticket is not valid for travel via Redhill to, say, London Bridge. However a Blackwater - Coulsdon South ticket is valid via Redhill as it is the shortest route. So my question is, when using an ANY PERMITTED Travelcard ticket, would I have to take a train from Redhill that stops at Coulsdon South?

 

[JB_B]

NR Enquiries reports it's a valid route when using a Travelcard (I was surprised too).

I can't reproduce that result.



Trying Reading to Coulsdon South via Redhill ( which as we know is definitely valid just using a travelcard ) ...

Journey Planner - Trains Times and Fares - National Rail Enquiries

The gateway to Britain's National Rail network. A portal into UK rail travel including train company information and promotions; train times; fares enquiries; ticket purchase and train running information.

ojp.nationalrail.co.uk

... yields the expected £27.70 travelcard fare.


Whereas requesting Reading to Knockholt via Tonbridge avoiding Paddington...

Journey Planner - Trains Times and Fares - National Rail Enquiries

The gateway to Britain's National Rail network. A portal into UK rail travel including train company information and promotions; train times; fares enquiries; ticket purchase and train running information.

ojp.nationalrail.co.uk

... gets the required route via Guildford and Tonbridge but yields a travelcard fare of £52.40 ( which is actually a composite of a travelcard and and an offpeak return )

 

[FenMan]

I can't reproduce that result.

Perhaps we are talking at cross-purposes? I am talking about Travelcard validity from Blackwater (which I didn't make clear in my first post).

Here's the NRE output for travel from Blackwater via Redhill/Tonbridge to Knockholt, which shows the normal ANY PERMITTED Travelcard is valid:-

Welcome to the Official source for UK trains | National Rail

You've found the gateway to Britain's national rail network. The portal to rail travel, including train times information, fares enquiries; promotions; and ticket info.

ojp.nationalrail.co.uk

No other ticket options are displayed as all Blackwater - Knockholt tickets are routed LONDON NOT UND.

It's an "interesting" routeing which I very much doubt I'd ever use!

 

[JB_B]

Perhaps we are talking at cross-purposes? I am talking about Travelcard validity from Blackwater (which I didn't make clear in my first post).

Apologies, yes we are - that's because I failed to read your post properly

As you rightly say, NRE validates the travelcards from Blackwater-Z1-6 for travel Blackwater-Knockholt via Guildford, Tonbridge and Sevenoaks. I still find that a bit puzzling.

For the £31.70 off peak travelcard ( route:any permitted ) the only routeing point pair that passes the fares check is Guildford/Orpington - all pairs involving Sevenoaks fail so I'm not sure why this is offered.

At appropriate times of day NRE also offers the £25.00 evening day out travelcard ( route:Ascot/Guildford ) for the same journey. Evaluated overall it's the same as for any permitted. Splitting the route check at Guildford doesn't help - once again Sevenoaks fails. (Shortest route Guildford-Knockholt is via West Croydon - still ~13m shorter than going via Redhill,Tonbridge)

So .... I'm not sure what's going on.

 

[plugwash]

It will be interesting to see what happens once day travelcards are no longer issued as paper tickets and the routeing is checked electronically.

How does route checking work with e-tickets and tickets held on ITSO today? do the inspectors apps attempt to automate route validation or do they just display the origin and destination and leave it up to the inspector to determine if it's a valid route?

 

[Wallsendmag]

How does route checking work with e-tickets and tickets held on ITSO today? do the inspectors apps attempt to automate route validation or do they just display the origin and destination and leave it up to the inspector to determine if it's a valid route?

Depends on the TIS