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Reminiscing about Western Greyhound

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There was all sorts of horror stories revealed from the Bishop & Smith Era of Western Greyhound, and unfortunately, I do feel that you are looking at their demise through some, perhaps Velvet tinted glasses. While no one can argue that the business was not in a particularly good shape after the Summercourt fire, it certainly was made worse by Mark's decision to sell up to Michael Bishop and Smith - Both of those two have a lot of (disreputable) history in running bus businesses, not least in Buses Etcetera in Surrey where Smith was a director and Bishop the ops manager. After some very dubious financial accounting (i.e Money Laundering), which resulted in Smith resigning from BETC, Smith then went on to purchase the remnants of Eastleigh based Velvet Travel - Bishop later on joining him there. Velvet Travel seemed to have a bit of a questionable history towards the end, particularly surrounding maintenance. When Mark put Greyhound up for sale, Bishop and Smith then seemed to use Velvet as the launchpad to purchase Greyhound - transferring all sorts of unsuitable vehicles to Cornwall from Eastleigh. While the story about the insurance company asking B&S for a years premium may be true, there's a lot of other rather dubious actions carried out by those two which hastened WG's demise - spending an absolute fortune on tarting up a Solo and fitting it with Wifi (far too ahead of it's time to work down there, an also not particularly important feature given the grand scheme of things and the shape of the business) - The same Optare Solo had the dubious history of running WG's last service... without an MOT or Insurance on it. Unfortunately, maintenance / tax & insurance all seem to be recurring features of the downfall of the final chapter of Western Greyhound, and it's slightly odd sister Velvet Travel - A Velvet Travel vehicle lost a wheel on the M3 while carrying passengers, causing a collision with a lorry - during the investigation it later turned out that said vehicle didn't have an MOT either, and I seem to recall a lot of complaints about the lack of service provided by WG at this time too (that's if and when they did find a vehicle that worked). In the end, Velvet Travel almost escaped with B&S placing it into liquidation owing in excess of £1M (before being officially wound up), while WG fell into administration - Having the traffic commissioner revoking the licenses of either business, and banning Mr Bishop and Mr Smith, really was the final nail in the coffin, and perhaps the best thing that could happen to the remnants of both businesses.

Personally, from my perspective, I can't share as much enthusiasm for Western Greyhound as you I'm afraid - While the trips with the VRs were nice, I have too many memories of absolutely ragged Vario's and being left behind on more than one occasion in North Cornwall - particularly as the Vario had well, just decided to give up in Padstow bus station. On another occasion travelling between Newquay and Padstow, the driver encountered traffic on one of the main roads (A39 possibly), and decided to go rogue around the country lanes - It certainly saved a trip to Flambards, this poor Beaver II was certainly being thrown around the country lanes and backroads, and absolutely stank of burnt out clutch by the time we reached Padstow!
You're not wrong about Bishop and Smith, they destroyed the company, and you are definitely right about the money laundering thing, as if you look at the government website, you can see loads of companies that they shut down in the same period of time between each other, very very dodgy stuff!
 
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Mr Manager

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Was David Jewkes involved? He of Heart of England fame?
 
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RT4038

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It's good to read of your tremendous enthusiasm for Western Greyhound but I do feel that it is being viewed through rather a number of rose coloured spectacles.
I suspect that all of us enthusiasts are susceptible to looking at our favourite company(s) with rose tinted spectacles, in this case [and many others] the downfall of the company was not exotic conspiracy theories but a more prosaic financial one caused by changes outside the control of the owners [expenses up due to DDA requirement of new vehicles, which were more expensive to buy and run, coupled with major revenue down due to cut in concessionary re-imbursement rate] and a clever, efficient, interlocked network that was quite difficult to economise on without major cuts, which were unpalatable to the owners.

I guess that the ability of the new owners was insufficient to overcome this situation. Probably bought the company without realising the gravity of the problem, a not unusual scenario and not restricted to smaller operators!
 

M803UYA

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I'm quite willing to believe every word of what you say, but on the subject of unsuitable, overworked or simply knackered buses, First's Cornish operation at the time was hardly in a different league. I remember a local newspaper report of the operation of the one remaining journey on the so-called X18 from Penzance to Truro which had broken down on the Camborne By-Pass. The driver told the passengers that the previous bus allocated had also broken down. While the passengers waited on the doubledecker (an Ailsa?) one of them noted mushrooms sprouting from the bench seat at the lower deck rear, and took photos, which were published in the newspaper.

I would still wonder, though, even if I accept everything above, how the WG management managed to bamboozle all their peers into giving them so many awards, and not just in the one year. How much First contributed, in one way or another, to WG's demise may never be publically known, not least because libel law in this country is very much geared to those with deep pockets. My instinctive feelings about WG all relate to the pre- first depot fire period, by the way: after that, I think they never stood a chance, even if arson had been proven by the conviction of anybody or anybodies.
I should have qualified my earlier comments that they were the result of first hand, direct experience of the original WG operation as an employee. They, quite by coincidence then came onto my radar in a later stage of my industry career, hence the comments about the purchaser. I worked for the intended purchaser and was the one who wrote the report on the operation, as they were aware of my inside knowledge.

And the company I worked for at the time ruled out purchase on the grounds that we needed to buy 40 buses in 18 months, and the only people who'd have supplied those were Ensignbus.

But, when Western Greyhound won their first two awards, they did operate an acceptable service when you consider the competition they had later on. I would stick by the point that the rot set in post 2011. All that's been covered on the Western Greyhound fire page in some detail. Also covered in some detail is the Traffic Commissioner's report from the 2015 public inquiry, which made reference to the issues of 2014 in some detail. And that doesn't read well, even after 6 years.

Norfolk Green are a good comparator to Western Greyhound, their main difference being that from 2001 onwards low floor stock was purchased new, with later secondhand arrivals of Optare Solos. This investment history meant when the time came to sell, the new purchaser had a PSVAR compliant fleet, whereas Western Greyhound's first low floor buses didn't arrive until the 10th year of operations in 2008 with the Truro Park and Ride.

I suspect that all of us enthusiasts are susceptible to looking at our favourite company(s) with rose tinted spectacles, in this case [and many others] the downfall of the company was not exotic conspiracy theories but a more prosaic financial one caused by changes outside the control of the owners [expenses up due to DDA requirement of new vehicles, which were more expensive to buy and run, coupled with major revenue down due to cut in concessionary re-imbursement rate] and a clever, efficient, interlocked network that was quite difficult to economise on without major cuts, which were unpalatable to the owners.

I guess that the ability of the new owners was insufficient to overcome this situation. Probably bought the company without realising the gravity of the problem, a not unusual scenario and not restricted to smaller operators!
I would argue the downfall was partly self-inflicted. Absent the fire, the company didn't purchase low floor buses when new Mercedes Varios ceased to be built (2005). Had they purchased sizeable quantities of new low floor stock from then on and not waited 3/4 years, they'd have had a business they could have sold and retired. That was a decision taken by the management, not to invest and clearly it had consequences. Western Greyhound was up for sale from 2012 and potential purchasers did look at it - as I said the company I was then employed by elected not to purchase because they needed to buy 40 buses within 18 months just to continue trading.

The great King Alfred of Winchester, so beloved of the enthusiast community had towards it's end a very chequered history with continual run in's with the traffic commissioner over maintenance. So much so, that their licence was revoked.

If we were to consider that in the modern industry, we'd be deriding them as a cowboy operation!
 
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jammy36

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I too think there are some heavily rose-tinted spectacles being worn. My recollection of the company differs slightly.

Without doubt Western Greyhound (WG) were impressive in the period 1998 - 2008 when the company expanded rapidly off the back of several tender wins and bringing some clever interworking, clock-face timetabling and using hubs for connections to build a network greater than the sum of its parts. The role of Robin Orbell (a hugely experienced 'busman') in these early years is often overlooked, but he shouldn't be forgotten.

The company also benefitted heavily from the bus improvements being advanced through Rural Bus Challenge funding, and later through funding from the Countryside Commission. The company were also very clever at maximising the use of vehicles and drivers through smart scheduling and interworking, allowing them to keep their cost-base down. The (relatively) simple and frugal Mercedes minibuses played their role here too.

WG also seemed to have some luck on its side (something all growing businesses need). First Devon & Cornwall was a different beast to today's company and were cutting and consolidating their network, leaving gaps that WG were quick to exploit. They also benefitted from the closure/withdrawal of fellow operators (DAC, Hookways Jennings, Hamblys) to grow a county-wide network.

On the private hire side there was also some fortuitous timing, with other Newquay operators closing just as WG were expanding. The company was astute however in not chasing the dwindling excursion market that had been the meat sandwiched between school workings for previous generations of Newquay independents. Instead WG wisely focused on serving holiday camps.

In retrospect it seems the perfect combination of the right operator being in the right place at the right time and a management team wily and astute enough to take advantage.

But... even by 2008/10 (and certainly pre the fire) I think there were issues on the horizon. In 2010 they had over 55 Mercedes Varios on fleet and they had been zealot-like in their focus on this vehicle - continuing to purchase new and secondhand examples when most other operators had recognised the need to move on and plan for PSVAR requirements that had been long coming. Instead WG had spent too long seemingly burying it's head in the sand, pushing for the Beaver to be made DDA compliant and even trying to espouse a belief that Cornwall's operating environment was somehow so unique that dispensation was needed to allow their Varios to continue beyond the long known deadline.

I think this was partly to hide the fact that having spent a lot of capital growing the company so quickly the finance wasn't there to replace such a significant portion of the fleet. Even close to the death I seem to recall there were attempts at recertifying minibuses as coaches to circumnavigate the rules? Having spent years saying modern low floor buses like the Solo weren't suited to Cornwall's roads the had to bite the inevitable bullet, but replacing so many Varios in such short timeframe was never financially viable. The Solos that were purchased were largely off the back of new tender wins, not the legacy fleet being dealt with.

In the company's later years the once clever scheduling was also being stretched, with overly ambitious timetables that didn't seem to take account of seasonal traffic. I recall drivers at the time complaining that they were being left to fend complaints from the public but the management doing nothing to address the underlying issues (presumably because the services couldn't wear the cost of adding in the extra resource needed). Assets and staff were being sweated to the max. Drivers wages had also stagnated at the company (and I think effectively became frozen from around 2010). My recollection was that some of the early staff goodwill was running thin even before the fire.

Initially the introduction of the concessionary free-travel scheme and Cornwall's generous approach to reimbursement provided a sticking plaster. The award of the Truro park & ride service also helped plaster over the cracks. The fire was naturally devastating, but wasn't the cause of the WG's collapse; it accelerated a process of decline already underway and/or brought inevitable issues to the fore. Even without the fire the later reduction in concessionary fare reimbursement, just when the need to replace a substantial chunk of the fleet could no longer be avoided and a company worked so leanly there were little economies to be made would have been near impossible to overcome.

It was a company that burnt very brightly, but for a relatively short period.

The less said about the Bishop and Smith debacle the better... but my sympathies there lay with the staff of the company, not the former owners.
 
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TheGrandWazoo

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I too think there are some heavily rose-tinted spectacles being worn. My recollection of the company differs slightly.

Without doubt Western Greyhound (WG) were impressive in the period 1998 - 2008 when the company expanded rapidly off the back of several tender wins and bringing some clever interworking, clock-face timetabling and using hubs for connections to build a network greater than the sum of its parts. The role of Robin Orbell (a hugely experienced 'busman') in these early years is often overlooked, but he shouldn't be forgotten.

The company also benefitted heavily from the bus improvements being advanced through Rural Bus Challenge funding, and later through funding from the Countryside Commission. The company were also very clever at maximising the use of vehicles and drivers through smart scheduling and interworking, allowing them to keep their cost-base down. The (relatively) simple and frugal Mercedes minibuses played their role here too.

WG also seemed to have some luck on its side (something all growing businesses need). First Devon & Cornwall was a different beast to today's company and were cutting and consolidating their network, leaving gaps that WG were quick to exploit. They also benefitted from the closure/withdrawal of fellow operators (DAC, Hookways Jennings, Hamblys) to grow a county-wide network.

On the private hire side there was also some fortuitous timing, with other Newquay operators closing just as WG were expanding. The company was astute however in not chasing the dwindling excursion market that had been the meat sandwiched between school workings for previous generations of Newquay independents. Instead WG wisely focused on serving holiday camps.

In retrospect it seems the perfect combination of the right operator being in the right place at the right time and a management team wily and astute enough to take advantage.

But... even by 2008/10 (and certainly pre the fire) I think there were issues on the horizon. In 2010 they had over 55 Mercedes Varios on fleet and they had been zealot-like in their focus on this vehicle - continuing to purchase new and secondhand examples when most other operators had recognised the need to move on and plan for PSVAR requirements that had been long coming. Instead WG had spent too long seemingly burying it's head in the sand, pushing for the Beaver to be made DDA compliant and even trying to espouse a belief that Cornwall's operating environment was somehow so unique that dispensation was needed to allow their Varios to continue beyond the long known deadline.

I think this was partly to hide the fact that having spent a lot of capital growing the company so quickly the finance wasn't there to replace such a significant portion of the fleet. Even close to the death I seem to recall there were attempts at recertifying minibuses as coaches to circumnavigate the rules? Having spent years saying modern low floor buses like the Solo weren't suited to Cornwall's roads the had to bite the inevitable bullet, but replacing so many Varios in such short timeframe was never financially viable. The Solos that were purchased were largely off the back of new tender wins, not the legacy fleet being dealt with.

In the company's later years the once clever scheduling was also being stretched, with overly ambitious timetables that didn't seem to take account of seasonal traffic. I recall driver's at the time complaining that they were being left to fend complaints from the public but the management doing nothing to address the underlying issues (presumably because the services couldn't wear the cost of adding in the extra resource needed). Assets and staff were being sweated to the max. Drivers wages had also stagnated at the company (and I think effectively became frozen from around 2010). My recollection was that some of the early staff goodwill was running thin even before the fire.

Initially the introduction of the concessionary free-travel scheme and Cornwall's generous approach to reimbursement provided a sticking plaster. The award of the Truro park & ride service also helped plaster over the cracks. The fire was naturally devastating, but wasn't the cause of the WG's collapse; it accelerated a process of decline already underway and/or brought inevitable issues to the fore. Even without the fire the later reduction in concessionary fare reimbursement, just when the need to replace a substantial chunk of the fleet could no longer be avoided and a company worked so leanly there were little economies to be made would have been near impossible to overcome.

It was a company that burnt very brightly, but for a relatively short period.

The less said about the Bishop and Smith debacle the better... but my sympathies there lay with the staff of the company, not the former owners.
A fair and balanced view.

As a regular visitor to Cornwall, the growth of WG was a testimony to the skills of Orbell and Howarth and the lacklustre approach of First that gave plenty of opportunities to develop the business. I remember being in Newquay c.2001 and there were two businesses heading in vastly different directions. First D&C was a dumping ground and was involved in regular service cuts that WG exploited with a combination of new Varios and judicious secondhand purchases.

However, by about 2010, the signs were beginning to show that not all was well. The fleet of ageing Varios was being incrementally replaced by new Solos but not to the required volumes and there was a slightly careworn feel that I hadn't seen before. I travelled on the Lizard routes not long before their transfer to First in 2012. The two Solos that operated these tendered routes that day were filthy and the driving standards appalling. It was a real shock but I did put it down to perhaps a lack of commitment or resource locally as the services were about to move. However, the following year (and before the fire), I was down in Looe which was still Vario territory. Travelled from Looe to Liskeard on a Vario which was terrible - gaffa taped seats, broken fittings.... All pointing to a bus company that had over-reached itself, both financially and operationally.

A terrible shame as in the late noughties, they really had carved a niche and were a fantastic, innovative business with a commitment to quality and service. However, the stresses were definitely showing in the years before the catastrophic fires.
 
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I can't begin to imagine what the stress was like when the network was at its maximum peak, and you're not wrong, it's a shame indeed, if only things had gone better for them, maybe the dream of half-hourly/regular buses would still be alive.. still miss that with a passion..
 

fgwrich

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But... even by 2008/10 (and certainly pre the fire) I think there were issues on the horizon. In 2010 they had over 55 Mercedes Varios on fleet and they had been zealot-like in their focus on this vehicle - continuing to purchase new and secondhand examples when most other operators had recognised the need to move on and plan for PSVAR requirements that had been long coming. Instead WG had spent too long seemingly burying it's head in the sand, pushing for the Beaver to be made DDA compliant and even trying to espouse a belief that Cornwall's operating environment was somehow so unique that dispensation was needed to allow their Varios to continue beyond the long known deadline.

I think this was partly to hide the fact that having spent a lot of capital growing the company so quickly the finance wasn't there to replace such a significant portion of the fleet. Even close to the death I seem to recall there were attempts at recertifying minibuses as coaches to circumnavigate the rules? Having spent years saying modern low floor buses like the Solo weren't suited to Cornwall's roads the had to bite the inevitable bullet, but replacing so many Varios in such short timeframe was never financially viable. The Solos that were purchased were largely off the back of new tender wins, not the legacy fleet being dealt with.

Yes, I too remember this - WG buying second hand Beaver II's modified with a larger door to make them wheelchair accessible, and trying to circumnavigate the oncoming DDA compliance rules with this. Not one of their brightest ideas, considering that there are many other rural parts of the country which can and has adapted to the rules.

Diving back briefly into the Bishop and Smith debacle, one of the oddest decisions I seem to also recall was the sale of some of the smallest solos, predominately used around the East Cornwall area and their replacement with some, frankly awful vehicles from the Velvet fleet.

On a completely unrelated note, it does surprise me how many UPS vans are still soldiering on on the Vario chassis. The local UPS courier who delivers to my workplace still uses one of these, and between the ragged noise and distinct worn clutch smell, it bought back a few memories of WG and it's vast various fleet.
 
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Yes, I too remember this - WG buying second hand Beaver II's modified with a larger door to make them wheelchair accessible, and trying to circumnavigate the oncoming DDA compliance rules with this. Not one of their brightest ideas, considering that there are many other rural parts of the country which can and has adapted to the rules.

Diving back briefly into the Bishop and Smith debacle, one of the oddest decisions I seem to also recall was the sale of some of the smallest solos, predominately used around the East Cornwall area and their replacement with some, frankly awful vehicles from the Velvet fleet.

On a completely unrelated note, it does surprise me how many UPS vans are still soldiering on on the Vario chassis. The local UPS courier who delivers to my workplace still uses one of these, and between the ragged noise and distinct worn clutch smell, it bought back a few memories of WG and it's vast various fleet.
I swear the Western Power distribution depot in Bodmin houses two cherry-picker Mercs with the Vario chassis. I've seen them go in and out more than once, but yeah I definitely relate with you there, it brings back many memories indeed..

And oh god that awful Velvet fleet, not sure if anybody remembers this certain fleet vehicle or if it came from Velvet, but there was a cancer support Solo that would refuse to go up any hill whatsoever, it did 4-5mph up hills at its very best!
 
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robertclark125

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When the new rules about bus registrations came in, namely that anything over a certain length had to be operated by a tacho equipped vehicle, Western Greyhound split routes, and required people to change vehicles. So, a 500 became a 500 and 501, and at the mid point, people had to change from the 500 to the 501. I emailed them, to point out my local operator, Stagecoach East Scotland, got round this, by registering the same route throughout, but in two or three sections. They showed the sections in the timetable, and said people can stay on the bus, through fares available.

WG said in response they weren't aware you could do this, but to my knowledge, they didn't rejoin the dots.
 

RPI

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I lived in Cornwall until 2010 and visited ever since, my memories of WG were of knackered buses that rarely turned up when they were meant to (or at all!), drivers who looked like they had just emerged from a swamp! Though I do remember one particularly nice trip on a VR from Newquay to St Ives, this would have been towards the end as it was on a visit to Cornwall!
 

richw

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The liquidation process has finally completed!
Liquidation of the former Western Greyhound business has finally been completed by insolvency practice Portland Business Recovery, six and a half years after the Newquay-based operator entered administration.

The process has seen all secured, preferential and unsecured creditors receive a return in what Portland Director Steve Godwin says represents a positive outcome for those parties.

Western Greyhound ceased trading in March 2015 after it encountered a series of problems, including two depot fires and issues relating to difficulties in obtaining insurance cover. Both fires were suggested to have been arson, with the first – in May 2013 – destroying 35 buses.

Portland was appointed administrator, becoming joint liquidator in February 2016 after the business’s administration was converted to a creditors’ voluntary liquidation to enable returns from the disposal of the Western Greyhound assets to be distributed to creditors.

While the sale of Western Greyhound’s assets was straightforward, “the agreement of the claims proved more problematic,” Portland adds.

The insolvency practice took steps to sell the freehold offices and yard together with the fleet and other assets. Portland also assisted employees that had been made redundant without notice to make claims for arrears of pay, holiday pay, redundancy and pay in lieu of notice. Those claims were met via the National Insurance Fund.

Additionally, the sudden closure also subsequently gave rise to “a significant number of former employees making Employment Tribunal claims as a result of the company not being able to fully consult with the over redundancy,” Portland says.

“That gave rise to protracted legal action to determine the level of claims with the Employment Tribunal, which were eventually agreed at approximately £200,000.” In March 2015, the BBC reported that 158 Western Greyhound staffwere affected by the administration.

Lengthy negotiations took place with the secured creditor regarding the settlement to be paid to it from the sale of the freehold. Portland adds that it “successfully agreed a substantially reduced settlement, which enhanced the amount of funds then available for preferential and unsecured creditors in the liquidation.”

Adds Mr Godwin: “Although the case has taken longer to complete than we anticipated at the outset, the outcome is a positive one in that the secured, preferential and unsecured creditors have all received a return in the liquidation.

“In addition, the former employees have been compensated for the sudden and unexpected termination of their employment. This is a case where the company had no realistic opportunity to consult with staff as required by statute, and is a classic example of where insolvency litigation and employment law do not always sit comfortably alongside each other.”
 
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TheGrandWazoo

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Six and a half years after they closed too! Never knew that liquidation was such a lengthy and complicated process, as the saying goes, you learn something new every day!
It doesn’t normally. It’s usually not more than a couple of years but with a disorderly closure and the redundancy issue, it has clearly taken later.

Whether the behaviour of Messrs Bishop and Smith in their stewardship of the business has also exacerbated the process, we can only guess.
 
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It doesn’t normally. It’s usually not more than a couple of years but with a disorderly closure and the redundancy issue, it has clearly taken later.

Whether the behaviour of Messrs Bishop and Smith in their stewardship of the business has also exacerbated the process, we can only guess.
One can only wonder.. Oh speaking of Bishop & Smith, something I never understood is why they sent the odd bus or two up country every now and then for service routes, surely it would have made more sense to keep all the vehicles within Cornwall?
 

TheGrandWazoo

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One can only wonder.. Oh speaking of Bishop & Smith, something I never understood is why they sent the odd bus or two up country every now and then for service routes, surely it would have made more sense to keep all the vehicles within Cornwall?
You had the halcyon days of WG under Orbell and Howarth, then the troubled yet still professional days with Mark Howarth and the challenges of the two fires though it was becoming increasingly evident that not all was well.

However, the days of Bishop and Smith were typified by the type of moves and acquisitions that were indicative of financial and maintenance failings. I might add that I thought Bishop was disqualified indefinitely from involvement in running bus services but appears to be at Compass Bus?
 

MotCO

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One can only wonder.. Oh speaking of Bishop & Smith, something I never understood is why they sent the odd bus or two up country every now and then for service routes, surely it would have made more sense to keep all the vehicles within Cornwall?

Do you mean operated by other companies? Were the vehicles moved out to 'asset strip' beforethe final curtain?
 
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You had the halcyon days of WG under Orbell and Howarth, then the troubled yet still professional days with Mark Howarth and the challenges of the two fires though it was becoming increasingly evident that not all was well.

However, the days of Bishop and Smith were typified by the type of moves and acquisitions that were indicative of financial and maintenance failings. I might add that I thought Bishop was disqualified indefinitely from involvement in running bus services but appears to be at Compass Bus?
Ah, that'll be why they regularly transferred buses to & from Black Velvet Travel! That is correct, he was disqualified, no idea how he managed to get into Compass Bus if he is indeed working for them.


Do you mean operated by other companies? Were the vehicles moved out to 'asset strip' beforethe final curtain?
After the takeover of Bishop & Smith, I frequently saw vehicles being passed between Velvet & WG for operation/service routes, as for your other question, I haven't the foggiest clue!
 

TheGrandWazoo

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Ah, that'll be why they regularly transferred buses to & from Black Velvet Travel! That is correct, he was disqualified, no idea how he managed to get into Compass Bus if he is indeed working for them.



After the takeover of Bishop & Smith, I frequently saw vehicles being passed between Velvet & WG for operation/service routes, as for your other question, I haven't the foggiest clue!
He is down as General Manager and he is listed on the directors on the accounts!

I don't know if it was asset stripping but the newest fleet were sold via Ensign in order to get other vehicles in (though they may not have had the money to pay for the Solos, or it might have been to help replace Varios). Whatever it was, you had a number of quite peachy Solos, MPDs and other assorted tat appear in exchange.

The swapping of vehicles with BVT was also endemic in order to try and resolve maintenance issues. It was a sorry episode and truly dreadful but let's not forget that even before that, Western Greyhound's halo had slipped even before the fires.
 
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He is down as General Manager and he is listed on the directors on the accounts!

I don't know if it was asset stripping but the newest fleet were sold via Ensign in order to get other vehicles in (though they may not have had the money to pay for the Solos, or it might have been to help replace Varios). Whatever it was, you had a number of quite peachy Solos, MPDs and other assorted tat appear in exchange.

The swapping of vehicles with BVT was also endemic in order to try and resolve maintenance issues. It was a sorry episode and truly dreadful but let's not forget that even before that, Western Greyhound's halo had slipped even before the fires.
Very interesting, one wonders how he even managed to score that position in compass bus, especially after the disqualification!

I do remember being quite shocked at that move, iirc they even sold all their vintage buses to ensign (all of which bar JWV 259W [RIP] survive to this day, thankfully!)

Agreed, at the time, their fleet was experiencing the classic signs of ageing, especially the R & S reg Olympians and their older Varios, hence some going missing mid-route (and eventually ending up at summercourt later on), I do miss the good days but as with every bus company, not everything is sunshine and rainbows.
 

richw

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Bishop's indefinite ban was subject to conditions and a minimum 2 year period. After he met the conditions he could have a personal hearing with the commissioner to be allowed back in.
 
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richw

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But I do note in the detailed liquidation report on companies house it says director details will be sent to the disqualification office. So entirely possible he may now be disqualified from directorship.
 
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Thank god for that, let's hope it stays that way! For those interested, 455 (S455ATV) is up for sale on eBay as JIG 4503, looks to be in pretty good nick for its age!

I was meaning to ask, does anyone here know which three Varios suffered in the Liskeard depot fire? I have them listed as 522, 568 and 575, though I think I may be wrong?
 

GusB

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Could I ask everyone to take care when talking about any of the individuals mentioned in this thread, and that you have links to verifiable sources to back up any claims?
 
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A close friend of Mr Bishop assures me that he successfully appealed his ban after providing evidence that exonerated him from many of the wrongdoings of Paul Jones (aka Adam Smith) with regard both Velvet and WG.
 
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Following on from my previous post, I can confirm that it was definitely Varios 522, 568, and 575 that suffered in the Liskeard depot fire, 522 & 575 were completely burned out whilst 568 managed to escape with front-end fire damage, I don't know whether they were all scrapped together or if 568 was kept for parts until a later date
 

Titfield

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Busaholic

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His appeal to the Upper Tribunal heard 8th April 2016 was dismissed. See Upper Tribunal decision T/2015/78.

Black Velvet Travel Ltd, Western Greyhound Ltd and Michael John Bishop: [2016] UKUT 299 (AAC) - GOV.UK (www.gov.uk)
What a sorry story, but it does largely clarify in a completely unbiased way how Western Greyhound went from being a well-regarded bus operator to a basket case in quite a short period of time, and the reasons why that happened. It is obvious the original arson attack proved the catalyst, which may have been the intention of the arsonist(s), but we may never know in the absence of any criminal charges. It is noticeable too that, despite what was being discussed in some social media at the time, the Traffic Commissioners were happy with W.G.'s efforts to keep the show on the road in the immediate aftermath of the attack. Maybe the arsonist(s) or their backers (if any) weren't so happy, if their intention was to immediately cause the business to fold.
 
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