Revised NRCoT from 11/3/18

[Fawkes Cat]

As far as I can see, there isn't a thread for the revised NRCoT, which I stumbled on late on Saturday night. As of when I am writing this, they are linked from http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/times_fares/46427.aspx

I don't know the previous rules well enough to identify all changes, but there is interesting wording in the information box after clause 13.1.3:

Restrictions may be applied to services departing or arriving at certain times; to the services of one or more specified Train Companies; or to groups of train services indicated by a particular brand name or identity.

(my bold)

This would seem to resolve the GTR issue (is GatEx the same as Southern?) in the company's favour.

 

[yorkie]

That (mis)info information box is not new; it was sneaked in (without DfT approval) in 2016

It is opinion only, and is in no way legally binding whatsoever.

In fact, it would not be legally binding even if it was in the conditions as it cobtravenes the Ticketing Settlement Agreement (TSA).

See my previous posts on the subject!

If anyone has been mistreated by GTR in respect of this, please do contact me directly.

 

[Fawkes Cat]

Thanks for this Yorkie. As I say, I don't know the previous version well enough for any changes to leap out at me. But presumably there are some, otherwise the conditions wouldn't have been reissued. Can anyone spot any - either of significance, or at all?

 

[arb]

I read https://www.which.co.uk/news/2018/03/train-companies-misleading-claims-to-hit-the-buffers/ earlier in the week which suggests the changes will have something to do with rights to compensation for consequential loss after a delay.

I haven't read the relevant conditions, either old or new, so I don't know what's actually changed.

 

[Merseysider]

Clearly nobody could be bothered to proofread it.

Under Condition 33.3, which talks about the amount you’re eligible for following a delay, they’ve got a table entitled “Method of Payment” and “Method of Refund”

Try again...

 

[Hadders]

As far as I can see, there isn't a thread for the revised NRCoT, which I stumbled on late on Saturday night. As of when I am writing this, they are linked from http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/times_fares/46427.aspx

I don't know the previous rules well enough to identify all changes, but there is interesting wording in the information box after clause 13.1.3:

(my bold)

This would seem to resolve the GTR issue (is GatEx the same as Southern?) in the company's favour.

Part A: A Summary of the Conditions states

We have included a number of 'information panels' and/or footnotes to help you understand the meaning of certain Conditions. Please note that these panels and footnotes are for explanations only and do not form part of a Train Company's contract with you.

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

The only kind of ticket where, IMO the brand restrictions could be seen as enforceable would be the 'Not via Gatwick Express' tickets. If we imagine this to refer to GTR, it's saying 'Not via GTR' - effectively banning you from taking any trains along the route and hence not entitling you to any travel. Otherwise, if we accept that it refers to the Gatwick Express sub-brand, and that such a restriction is allowed, it achieves its purpose. I think the easy way around is simply to find a 'Southern only' or 'Thameslink only' ticket, as these are more arguably valid.

 

[alistairlees]

The only kind of ticket where, IMO the brand restrictions could be seen as enforceable would be the 'Not via Gatwick Express' tickets. If we imagine this to refer to GTR, it's saying 'Not via GTR' - effectively banning you from taking any trains along the route and hence not entitling you to any travel. Otherwise, if we accept that it refers to the Gatwick Express sub-brand, and that such a restriction is allowed, it achieves its purpose. I think the easy way around is simply to find a 'Southern only' or 'Thameslink only' ticket, as these are more arguably valid.

I think someone will be unable to resist opening a can of worms shortly... this has been the subject of numerous threads, and many posts.

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

I think someone will be unable to resist opening a can of worms shortly... this has been the subject of numerous threads, and many posts.

[Image description: can of worms saying 'Uh-oh' and looking worried while looking at knife with legs]

 

[Haywain]

[Image description: can of worms saying 'Uh-oh' and looking worried while looking at knife with legs]

That's not a knife with legs, it's a can opener with legs!

 

[yorkie]

The only kind of ticket where, IMO the brand restrictions could be seen as enforceable would be the 'Not via Gatwick Express' tickets. If we imagine this to refer to GTR, it's saying 'Not via GTR' - effectively banning you from taking any trains along the route and hence not entitling you to any travel. Otherwise, if we accept that it refers to the Gatwick Express sub-brand, and that such a restriction is allowed, it achieves its purpose. I think the easy way around is simply to find a 'Southern only' or 'Thameslink only' ticket, as these are more arguably valid.

Or we accept that the existence of such fares is unlawful...

Arguably this is off-topic, so can we stick with discussing the NRCoT?

 

[alistairlees]

[Image description: can of worms saying 'Uh-oh' and looking worried while looking at knife with legs]

Exactly how I visualised it too!