ScotRail Industrial Relations issues (including conductor strike action)

[Bald Rick]

Do any bus passengers appreciate or even notice everything most bus drivers have given up over the years?

I should think many do, albeit without realising it. In that without the cost reductions that have happened in the bus industry, many routes that operate now would have reduced frequencies, reduced hours of service, or wouldn’t be operating at all.

It’s not beyond the realms of possibility to expect some of this to come to Scotrail (and elsewhere).

 

[alangla]

I should think many do, albeit without realising it. In that without the cost reductions that have happened in the bus industry, many routes that operate now would have reduced frequencies, reduced hours of service, or wouldn’t be operating at all.

It’s not beyond the realms of possibility to expect some of this to come to Scotrail (and elsewhere).

We’ve already got the reduced frequencies with no sign of restoration any time soon. Whether that’s fed through to a reduced requirement for crews, I don’t know.

 

[Deltic1961]

Here's a perfect example of how rail will kill itself. We want to go to Edinburgh from Aberdeen next week for a shopping day out. 2 adults plus one 18 year old. We want to leave early-ish then come back from Edinburgh early evening.

A tank of fuel for the car is £40 and would easily get us there and back with some left over. A week is reasonable notice but that price is simply ridiculous. No wonder the trains are all half empty. Another thing to note is that the train takes half an hour longer. Prices like that may keep Scotrail and their overpaid staff going in the short term, but I can't see too many people booking at those prices. How on earth can they justify that?

 

[InOban]

Remember that the marginal cost of running a car is reckoned to be at least twice the fuel cost (tyres and other wear and tear, mileage related depreciation, etc). And where are you planning to shop? If you're heading for Central Edinburgh it's going to add half an hour and it will cost a fortune to park, unless you use Ingliston P&R.... Still ridiculous tho'. Have you priced LNER or Cross Country?

 

[scotraildriver]

Here's a perfect example of how rail will kill itself. We want to go to Edinburgh from Aberdeen next week for a shopping day out. 2 adults plus one 18 year old. We want to leave early-ish then come back from Edinburgh early evening.

A tank of fuel for the car is £40 and would easily get us there and back with some left over. A week is reasonable notice but that price is simply ridiculous. No wonder the trains are all half empty. Another thing to note is that the train takes half an hour longer. Prices like that may keep Scotrail and their overpaid staff going in the short term, but I can't see too many people booking at those prices. How on earth can they justify that?

View attachment 100048

That is Cross Country only. Have you tried Scotrail?

 

[Deltic1961]

That's Scotrail's website so assumed it's their trains ....... I've never heard of Cross Country?

 

[John Bishop]

Here's a perfect example of how rail will kill itself. We want to go to Edinburgh from Aberdeen next week for a shopping day out. 2 adults plus one 18 year old. We want to leave early-ish then come back from Edinburgh early evening.

A tank of fuel for the car is £40 and would easily get us there and back with some left over. A week is reasonable notice but that price is simply ridiculous. No wonder the trains are all half empty. Another thing to note is that the train takes half an hour longer. Prices like that may keep Scotrail and their overpaid staff going in the short term, but I can't see too many people booking at those prices. How on earth can they justify that?

View attachment 100048

The 0707 and 0752 departures are just over £70.

 

[Brissle Girl]

Here's a perfect example of how rail will kill itself. We want to go to Edinburgh from Aberdeen next week for a shopping day out. 2 adults plus one 18 year old. We want to leave early-ish then come back from Edinburgh early evening.

A tank of fuel for the car is £40 and would easily get us there and back with some left over. A week is reasonable notice but that price is simply ridiculous. No wonder the trains are all half empty. Another thing to note is that the train takes half an hour longer. Prices like that may keep Scotrail and their overpaid staff going in the short term, but I can't see too many people booking at those prices. How on earth can they justify that?

View attachment 100048

In the morning, half an hour earlier is an LNER service at 24 each. So that’s an immediate saving. Also, you could have a Two together railcard to reduce the return cost by a third for two of you, and similarly a railcard for the 18 yr old. (Won’t pay for themselves for one trip, but over the course of a year will, unless this is a one off journey.)

 

[craigybagel]

Mods - is there any point in this thread continuing? It's just turning into the predictable echo chamber of anti RMT/anti Traincrew in general from the same predictable posters. Clearly nothing is likely to change in terms of Sunday services in Scotland any time soon.

 

[haggishunter]

I see the RMT is kicking off about dangerous profit driven unstaffed stations off the back of the Troon fire. Are they seriously suggesting that every station should be manned through operating hours?

Have to wonder what the RMTs overall agenda has become, is it gunning for an all out fight with the Scottish Government ahead of nationalisation of ScotRail, as it sees it to lay a marker that they (the RMT) will be in charge and call all the shots?

Between reduced services, no onboard catering and lack of Sunday services have heard a few previously regular rail users ask why they don’t just shut the whole thing down for good - the country basically managed without it for the past 18 months!

Seems that far from serving the longer term interests of it’s members the RMT is becoming a threat to the integrity of the Scottish Rail network, but have to say the situation on behalf of Abellio ScotRail and TS is disingenuous too, be much more honest and upfront, and let people plan properly to just say no Sunday service on the timetable because it seems there’s no desire to resolve this issue because it frankly suits all parties!

 

[Robertj21a]

Mods - is there any point in this thread continuing? It's just turning into the predictable echo chamber of anti RMT/anti Traincrew in general from the same predictable posters. Clearly nothing is likely to change in terms of Sunday services in Scotland any time soon.

It's probably best to allow the thread to run on as normal so that it's all contained in one place. In any event, there's dangers in stifling open debate - whether RMT fans like it or not!

 

[Kite159]

I see the RMT is kicking off about dangerous profit driven unstaffed stations off the back of the Troon fire. Are they seriously suggesting that every station should be manned through operating hours?

I saw that on the BBC, do they want to go back to the olden days where nearly every station was staffed from first to last train, even if it's just someone sitting bored in a ticket office with no visibility of the actual platforms?

More jobs = more subscriptions.

 

[John Bishop]

I see the RMT is kicking off about dangerous profit driven unstaffed stations off the back of the Troon fire. Are they seriously suggesting that every station should be manned through operating hours?

Have to wonder what the RMTs overall agenda has become, is it gunning for an all out fight with the Scottish Government ahead of nationalisation of ScotRail, as it sees it to lay a marker that they (the RMT) will be in charge and call all the shots?

Between reduced services, no onboard catering and lack of Sunday services have heard a few previously regular rail users ask why they don’t just shut the whole thing down for good - the country basically managed without it for the past 18 months!

Seems that far from serving the longer term interests of it’s members the RMT is becoming a threat to the integrity of the Scottish Rail network, but have to say the situation on behalf of Abellio ScotRail and TS is disingenuous too, be much more honest and upfront, and let people plan properly to just say no Sunday service on the timetable because it seems there’s no desire to resolve this issue because it frankly suits all parties!

Yeah, it’s the almost daily grievance about something or another. The problem with that is that people just switch off when it comes to the RMT complaining about something which considerably weakens and undermines their position. ASLEF on the other hand seem to pick their battles very carefully.

 

[Falcon1200]

Here's a perfect example of how rail will kill itself. We want to go to Edinburgh from Aberdeen next week for a shopping day out. 2 adults plus one 18 year old. We want to leave early-ish then come back from Edinburgh early evening.

By using the 0752 ex Aberdeen and 1835 ex Edinburgh the total fare is £144, still more than a tank of petrol but as already stated there is far expense more to a car journey than that !

 

[alangla]

Have to wonder what the RMTs overall agenda has become, is it gunning for an all out fight with the Scottish Government ahead of nationalisation of ScotRail, as it sees it to lay a marker that they (the RMT) will be in charge and call all the shots?

After their success over retaining guards on the electrified E&G and SDA lines, I imagine they probably feel that the current Scottish Government/Transport Scotland are perhaps less likely than the DfT to fight against them.
I think they may well be right, but the question is, where does the money come from, especially if the return to routine office working keeps getting delayed.

Don't suppose anyone has any footfall figures for key "commuter" stations, e.g Edinburgh Park, South Gyle, Charing Cross, Anderston etc over the last 18 months?

 

[MDB1images]

Has anyone an official update on where things stand going forward(as opposed to personal opinions on the RMT/dispute)?
Is anything actually going on talks wise between Scotrail and RMT(or is anything planned)to bring a resolution to this?

 

[craigybagel]

It's probably best to allow the thread to run on as normal so that it's all contained in one place. In any event, there's dangers in stifling open debate - whether RMT fans like it or not!

But there isn't really a lot of open debate here to be stifled. By and large it's moved on to just the same posters who don't like the RMT or traincrew in general making the same arguments they make on any other thread that's vaguely relevant.

I'm neither a fan of the RMT or a member, but the mods have shut down plenty of other threads for much less deviation from topic than this.

 

[Kite159]

After their success over retaining guards on the electrified E&G and SDA lines, I imagine they probably feel that the current Scottish Government/Transport Scotland are perhaps less likely than the DfT to fight against them.
I think they may well be right, but the question is, where does the money come from, especially if the return to routine office working keeps getting delayed.

Don't suppose anyone has any footfall figures for key "commuter" stations, e.g Edinburgh Park, South Gyle, Charing Cross, Anderston etc over the last 18 months?

Footfall compared to ticket sales? As I suspect a good number of passengers only purchased tickets to those sort of stations to bypass the barriers in Glasgow/Edinburgh when they knew nobody was checking tickets.

 

[greyman42]

The RMT needs to realize that there's plenty of people out there who have lost jobs due to the pandemic and would more than likely jump at the chance of getting a job with Scotrail on the pre-deal rates. IIRC Scotrail guards get over £30k per year and I personally would quite happily work Sundays for a normal time at that rate.

The RMT could not care less about others who have lost their jobs due to the pandemic.

 

[Wolfie]

The RMT could not care less about others who have lost their jobs due to the pandemic.

That is fine. Of course those who lost their jobs will care equally as much about RMT members pay and employment prospects. Unless of course they are asked to pay more tax or higher fares then they will take an interest ok and it won't be a positive one.

 

[Deltic1961]

The railway is seen as a sacred cow in the UK, much like the NHS. Constantly putting up fares above inflation can't go on forever. NHS get away with it because NI rates are increased on the sly (especially for self employed) and it falls below the radar.

Every business has a top price people are willing to pay, and the railway system is going to exceed that and fail. If it costs far more to operate than it takes in revenue then why does it exist at all?

 

[PR1Berske]

Every business has a top price people are willing to pay, and the railway system is going to exceed that and fail. If it costs far more to operate than it takes in revenue then why does it exist at all?

I'm going to take this question to Speculative Ideas!

 

[Mag_seven]

As there appears to be no resolution to this dispute in sight, and the industrial action is planned to continue for some time we will draw a halt to this discussion at this juncture. If anyone wants to discuss anything else they are welcome to start a new thread in the appropriate forum section.

If there are any developments in this dispute can someone alert a member of the forum staff and we will look to have the thread reopened.

 

[alangla]

Spotted in the papers today: ScotRail managers in the TSSA union have voted to strike over covering for striking RMT members

ScotRail managers to strike over covering for staff taking industrial action

PASSENGERS face further disruption on Scotland's railways as team managers vote for strike action in a dispute over covering for staff taking part…

www.heraldscotland.com

“Rail staff union TSSA today wrote to ScotRail warning them to expect industrial action after members working as conductor, revenue and on-train team managers with ScotRail voted for strike action in a complaint about being forced to fill in for absences caused by other industrial actions or understaffing.

Members voted by 62.5% for strike action in the TSSA ballot, and 93.75% for action short of strike.”

 

[Deltic1961]

Wonderful!

 

[Horizon22]

Couldn't help but have a little giggle as its basically "staff covering strikes, going on strike"!

I noted they are very round numbers in the %s, so it's presumably quite a low number of staff involved in the ballot?
Edit: It would seem to be 16 [or multiple of] (6.25% is 1 person).

 

[ld0595]

Am I right in saying that this will likely result in no services to Inverclyde or on the Argyle Line on Sundays for the foreseeable future then?

 

[Watershed]

Am I right in saying that this will likely result in no services to Inverclyde or on the Argyle Line on Sundays for the foreseeable future then?

It's 'only' 16 people, so even if they do go on strike, there will probably still be enough managers to provide for some sort of service. It might be a more limited service than what Scotrail currently operate on Sundays.

 

[Horizon22]

It's 'only' 16 people, so even if they do go on strike, there will probably still be enough managers to provide for some sort of service. It might be a more limited service than what Scotrail currently operate on Sundays.

It might not be 16 - could be 32 or 64 for instance, but seems unlikely to be considerable numbers.

 

[Deltic1961]

It's funny how the Scotrail employees think the cash cow will never end. This is the 16:57 Aberdeen to Inverurie and before Covid this train was packed full of commuters.

If this is a reflection on future revenue then some people are in for a rude awakening.