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Roads in the UK that were previously dual carriageway but have been downgraded?

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ABB125

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No it shouldn't (partly because there is a footpath crossing between the A5199 junction and the M1). Drivers of vehicles not permitted on the motorway simply need to observe signage and not proceed past the A5199 junction. And/or plan their route before setting off rather than winging it.
I was under the impression that all the foot crossings were removed when Catthorpe was upgraded?
Though I agree that drivers should just pay attention to the signs!
(And the escape point is after the point at which Motorway restrictions begin). Although that is presumably where non-motorway traffic gets escorted off if phoning for assistance.
I believe that is the case.
 
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swt_passenger

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No it shouldn't (partly because there is a footpath crossing between the A5199 junction and the M1). Drivers of vehicles not permitted on the motorway simply need to observe signage and not proceed past the A5199 junction. And/or plan their route before setting off rather than winging it...
The slight problem with the A14 along there, (as I see it), is that although westbound non-motorway traffic is signed off it just before Junction 1 for A5199, there’s nothing much to stop westbound traffic joining it AT the same junction. Yes, there’s a green direction “flag sign” with a blue panel on it, but that sign doesn’t actually mean motorway traffic only. It’s a bit of a cut-price job all round once off the trunk road - probably a different signing responsibility, maybe the local council.
 

A0wen

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I can see the sign, but not the crossing itself. Not on satellite view, Open Street Map, nor OS Maps.

I've found it - there are lay-bys. Look at the east end of the westbound one and you'll see the gap in the barriers and the steps down from the eastbound carriageway to the footpath.

But you'd have to be out of your mind to cross the A14 by foot on the level.
 

ABB125

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I've found it - there are lay-bys. Look at the east end of the westbound one and you'll see the gap in the barriers and the steps down from the eastbound carriageway to the footpath.
Although it only appears to be half a crossing - the access gate is visible on the northern side of the road, and there's a path between the barriers in the central reservation, but there's no gap in the barriers on the southern side of the road. Unless you're meant to walk along the road into the layby?
But you'd have to be out of your mind to cross the A14 by foot on the level.
Quite!
 

Ianno87

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I can see the sign, but not the crossing itself. Not on satellite view, Open Street Map, nor OS Maps.

I've found it - there are lay-bys. Look at the east end of the westbound one and you'll see the gap in the barriers and the steps down from the eastbound carriageway to the footpath.

But you'd have to be out of your mind to cross the A14 by foot on the level.

Seems to be this?


Appears that you can park in the westbound lay-by, then (if you're totally f*****g mental) cross across both carriageways to the footpath heading north.
 

Bald Rick

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It's not entirely clear, but it looks like the former alignment of the A23 through Handcross had a very short length of Dual carriageway abandoned when the section between Crawley and Handcross was dualled to D3:


The original line of the road is the sliproad and village high street which has only ever been single carriageway, the 1st bypass when past the BP garage now some distance from the A23 and the curve can just about be followed through the housing development towards Hoadlands and the school before rejoining London Road. North of the village it doesn't look like it was ever wide enough for D2, even by older standards.

I doubt that was ever dualled (unless anyone knows otherwise) - it's not at all unusual to have a separate "village road" like that when the single carriageway main road is upgraded. Some duals even have that arrangement, the East Lancs Road does in places for example.

It certainly was dualled, and one project I ‘worked on’ (looked at) during work experience from school was the design for the Handcross improvement to dual 3 Lane. I remember asking some questions which the designers didn’t have an answer to!


Actually the road sign for that bit of the A452 is a bit questionable given it's basically the slip road to the M40 with no other access, yet it doesn't make clear non-motorway traffic can't use the road. I wonder if the M40 covered the A452 alignment when it was built ?

The A14 one is a recent construct though - the old Catthorpe Interchange was a roundabout which had the A14 ending at a roundabout which also handled a local road as well - the 2010 diagram on this page is a pretty good explanation: https://www.sabre-roads.org.uk/wiki/index.php/Catthorpe_Interchange

I think the M40 consumed the alignment of the A452 (which might have been a Warwick southern bypass?), but can't remember where I read that.
With the A14, although it should technically be a motorway from the A5199 junction, there is actually an escape point just before you join the M1.

Yes, and no. Yes the M40 took over the alignment of the road. One of the M40 carriageways (southbound I think) reused the bridge over the Avon, and the old route through was built wide enough for a dual 2 lane motorway, but only one carriageway was ever built. Quite lop sided, with it on one side of the whole formation and the overbridges / cuttin gclearly side enough for more. This was when the M40 was going to run slightly further east.

But it wasn’t the A452. It was the A41.
 

ABB125

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Seems to be this?


Appears that you can park in the westbound lay-by, then (if you're totally f*****g mental) cross across both carriageways to the footpath heading north.
Good family day out, that is! A good balance between adrenaline and serenity...

(Says the person who nearly got run over on a dual carriageway in Tamworth (we weren't even at a proper crossing point, my mum just decided "right, we'll cross over here") on a day trip to Drayton Manor... :D)
Yes, and no. Yes the M40 took over the alignment of the road. One of the M40 carriageways (southbound I think) reused the bridge over the Avon, and the old route through was built wide enough for a dual 2 lane motorway, but only one carriageway was ever built. Quite lop sided, with it on one side of the whole formation and the overbridges / cuttin gclearly side enough for more. This was when the M40 was going to run slightly further east.

But it wasn’t the A452. It was the A41.
Thanks, very interesting.
 

LNW-GW Joint

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Here, on the A449 north of Worcester, the northbound carriageway has been remarked as a single lane. Again, I believe this is for safety reasons; I think the northbound carriageway is the original one, and is thus rather too narrow to safely fit two lanes around this corner (plus a few more later on). The southbound carriageway, by contrast, is two lanes at this point.
I well remember the construction of the northern bit of that section of the A449 (north of Ombersley) in the late 70s.
It appeared well designed and fast, but they left a number of poor junctions with side roads, plus narrow refuges for turning.
I see that has now all been narrowed, and all the refuges have been stopped up meaning long loops to turn right.
It renders the whole scheme rather pointless.

These days I am more familiar with the A541 Wrexham-Mold road past Plas Teg, and that was dualled by adding a straighter carriageway to one side, leaving the original carriageway to weave about, and all at 70mph.
The old side was first singled and reduced to 50mph, and now the new straight side has been reduced to 50mph too.
There are also a large number of originally fast 3-lane roads in the area (1950s trunk road single carriageway design with a middle lane) which have become 2-lane to avoid head-on crashes while overtaking.
If you are lucky there might be double-white lines for a spell to overtake, but mostly you just have to stick in line.
 

ABB125

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I well remember the construction of the northern bit of that section of the A449 (north of Ombersley) in the late 70s.
It appeared well designed and fast, but they left a number of poor junctions with side roads, plus narrow refuges for turning.
I see that has now all been narrowed, and all the refuges have been stopped up meaning long loops to turn right.
It renders the whole scheme rather pointless.

These days I am more familiar with the A541 Wrexham-Mold road past Plas Teg, and that was dualled by adding a straighter carriageway to one side, leaving the original carriageway to weave about, and all at 70mph.
The old side was first singled and reduced to 50mph, and now the new straight side has been reduced to 50mph too.
There are also a large number of originally fast 3-lane roads in the area (1950s trunk road single carriageway design with a middle lane) which have become 2-lane to avoid head-on crashes while overtaking.
If you are lucky there might be double-white lines for a spell to overtake, but mostly you just have to stick in line.
Those old S3 roads would be much better replaced as S2+1, allowing overtaking on one direction, with the overtaking direction swapping over every now and then. It's quite popular in Wales (one of the reasons, I'm told, is because there's a larger proportion of slow agricultural vehicles, but not enough traffic to justify full dualling. Though personally I'd prefer alternate dualled then single sections, as it's much easier to justify upgrading the single sections than it is to "just add a single extra lane" to 3 lane-wide sections).

Here's an unusual example (in fact, the only one I can think of) of S2+1 road. There are two lanes in the uphill direction (it does get steeper!), but on the flat bit downhill vehicles are also permitted to use the middle lane to overtake. A bit like a "priority suicide lane"*. Most S2+1 roads have double white "no overtaking lines" (which this example also has further along), whilst more modern examples (such as this new-build in Pembrokeshire) have a painted divide (which should be 1m wide).

*Although I believe it's actually still permitted in the design manual!
 

snowball

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According to the inspector's report on the public inquiry into the Catthorpe junction upgrade, the public footpath(s) crossing the A14 a short distance east of the junction were supposed to be closed at the road boundary and replaced by a new bridleway which would pass under the A14 alongside the River Avon.
 

A0wen

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According to the inspector's report on the public inquiry into the Catthorpe junction upgrade, the public footpath(s) crossing the A14 a short distance east of the junction were supposed to be closed at the road boundary and replaced by a new bridleway which would pass under the A14 alongside the River Avon.

The bridleway's there and marked on Google earth. Looks like half the job got done i.e. not closing the footpath or removing the footpath signs.
 

Bald Rick

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Here's an unusual example (in fact, the only one I can think of) of S2+1 road. There are two lanes in the uphill direction (it does get steeper!), but on the flat bit downhill vehicles are also permitted to use the middle lane to overtake. A bit like a "priority suicide lane"*. Most S2+1 roads have double white "no overtaking lines" (which this example also has further along), whilst more modern examples (such as this new-build in Pembrokeshire) have a painted divide (which should be 1m wide).

*Although I believe it's actually still permitted in the design manual!

That ‘unusual example’ was very common at one point, including throughout Wales. The heads of the Vslleys used to have a lot like that.

The A477 Red Roses by pass is a lovely road, cuts out a very slow (but picturesque) section which saves you about 5 minutes.
 

ABB125

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That ‘unusual example’ was very common at one point, including throughout Wales. The heads of the Vslleys used to have a lot like that.
I put "unusual" because it's the only example I can think of with the "solid and dashed" double white line, rather than the more normal fully solid double line (obviously the fact that it's not too far from home makes it rather more noticeable!). I would have thought that most examples have had a solid double line painted by now, to improve safety (which I think has happened on all the remaining sections of the Heads of the Valleys). I'm not sure what the road markings were like on the A44 when the Broadway bypass opened, perhaps it was "normal" S3 (ie: no priority given to one direction)?

(Interestingly, a few miles further west along the A44, there's one of the short dualled section which is mostly point nowadays.)
The A477 Red Roses by pass is a lovely road, cuts out a very slow (but picturesque) section which saves you about 5 minutes.
We go most years on holiday in Pembrokeshire, so go along that bit fairly regularly. I can remember seeing the bypass being built (including the rather spectacular embankment and cutting at the eastern end), but don't have any memories of the old road. The bypass is, as you say, much faster, and personally I think it's quite scenic!
 

A0wen

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Although it only appears to be half a crossing - the access gate is visible on the northern side of the road, and there's a path between the barriers in the central reservation, but there's no gap in the barriers on the southern side of the road. Unless you're meant to walk along the road into the layby?

Yep - and if you then look half-way along the layby you'll see the steps down onto the footpath.

If you wish to go an explore those footpaths, be my guest. I think I'll pass on that particular stroll around the Northants countryside and stick to the ones I know already 8-)
 

ABB125

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Yep - and if you then look half-way along the layby you'll see the steps down onto the footpath.

If you wish to go an explore those footpaths, be my guest. I think I'll pass on that particular stroll around the Northants countryside and stick to the ones I know already 8-)
Well, it's easy to get there by car, plenty of parking too! :D
 

Bald Rick

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Showing my age, on the same road I remember the Kilgetty bypass being built and the spectacular cutting / bridge by Stepaside. (I also remember the M4 Bridgend by pass being built, which is even older!)
 

Dave W

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Actually the road sign for that bit of the A452 is a bit questionable given it's basically the slip road to the M40 with no other access, yet it doesn't make clear non-motorway traffic can't use the road.
Not half! The sign suggests one can reach Stratford without using the motorway.

I suspect the reason that would be given is the long layby which could be used by non-motorway traffic quite legally - the teardrop allows them to double-back thereafter. There are no farm accesses of any sort so far as I can see, so that'd be the only possible reason.

Quite the mess...

EDIT: Tell a lie - there is one gated access to a field about halfway along. There's also an access bridge which looks a lot wider than the road - I presume there were grander plans in place than what's there now.
 

ABB125

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Showing my age, on the same road I remember the Kilgetty bypass being built and the spectacular cutting / bridge by Stepaside. (I also remember the M4 Bridgend by pass being built, which is even older!)
It certainly is spectacular! We got lost once, and ended up going over the bridge at night - there was a nice view.
I wonder why they chose a full dual carriageway for the cutting (ie: expensive) and only S2+1 on the open bit at the top of the hill (where dualling would have been cheaper)? By all means have S2+1 in the cutting as it's rather steep though. (And it now is - there's a 50 limit going down the hill, and it's been reduced to one lane (presumably to reduce the chance of a crash at the junction at the bottom of the hill). It's still two lanes uphill.)
EDIT: Tell a lie - there is one gated access to a field about halfway along. There's also an access bridge which looks a lot wider than the road - I presume there were grander plans in place than what's there now.
Yes, the structures were built with space for a dual carriageway, but only one was ever built.
 

Bald Rick

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I wonder why they chose a full dual carriageway for the cutting (ie: expensive) and only S2+1 on the open bit at the top of the hill (where dualling would have been cheaper)? By all means have S2+1 in the cutting as it's rather steep though. (And it now is - there's a 50 limit going down the hill, and it's been reduced to one lane (presumably to reduce the chance of a crash at the junction at the bottom of the hill). It's still two lanes uphill.)

Something I’ve always wondered too. The cutting was built wide enough for dual carriageway almost the whole way, although the spare space is often obscured by the vegetation. When it opened it was all bare rock, and you could see the coal seams of the Pembrokeshire coalfield quite clearly.
 
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