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Roadside Litter

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Bald Rick

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A spin off from the cycling thread. I cycle around Hertfordshire / south Bedfordshire and Buckinghamshire a fair bit - about 2,500 miles since April, mostly on country lanes and B roads. This summer I have also cycled in Worcestershire, Norfolk, Cambridgeshire and Suffolk. What I noticed in these latter counties was the near complete absence of any roadside litter or fly tipping. Whereas in Herts and south Beds (less so in Bucks) it is everywhere.

To put some scale to it; there is a country lane not far from where I live that I walk down regularly, and in a 1km stretch I can easily pick up a carrier bag full of cans, bottles, food wrappers etc every couple of weeks. And that’s before the fly tipping - someone seems to dump a couple of bags of kitchen rubbish down there every couple of weeks, and then there’s often small quantities of builders waste etc. And this is just on a 1km stretch near me with not that much traffic (perhaps 50 vehicles an hour). However it’s the same down almost every lane around here. The local council are actually pretty good about collecting fly tipping, and have put up suitable signs etc., but in reality there is little that they can do about the litter.

Even on the road I live on, I will pick up a couple of freshly deposited drinks cans / bottles, fast food wrappers etc., every single day. This is on a stretch of road perhaps 100 metres long. Probably a quarter of the drinks containers are Red Bull, and a third are alcoholic in some way - this is odd as the road doesn’t see many pedestrians, so presumably they are being thrown from cars / vans*.

I am curious to know if this is something that is peculiar to this part of the world, or if the problem on the scale I have described is common elsewhere. As I said, other areas of the country I have visited this year don’t seem to have the same issue.


*Let us leave aside the point that people who through rubbish from their cars are complete idiots who deserve to rot in a large pile of their own ordure; and I have vindictive yet cunning plans to deal with anyone I observe to be guilty of such an offence.
 
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Mcr Warrior

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CCTV cameras at known fly tipping "grot spots", should help catch repeat culprits, presumably "man with a van" types improperly disposing of general and trade waste for £££.
 

Ianno87

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Living in close proximity to the local McDonalds, that is a regular source of litter in our front garden and on our road.

Disposible face coverings are also regular appearers now, having been...disposed of.
 

MotCO

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I live near a main road, and in recent weeks have retrieved a For Sale board and a Keep Left sign from under my front hedge!
 

Belperpete

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Unfortunately, when one person drops litter, this seems to act as a signal to others that it is acceptable to do so. The longer it lies there, the more it will attract.
 

DelW

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Since the start of lockdown, I've been walking 5 or 6 miles a day on footpaths, bridleways and lanes here in Surrey, and it's just as bad. After a few days of being disgusted by the number of cans, bottles and wrappers thrown everywhere, I decided there was no point moaning about it if I wasn't prepared to do something. So every two or three days I'll take an old carrier bag with me and collect some of it. Particularly annoying are those who throw their bottles and cans over fences, where they're visible but out of reach.

I now know where most of the litter bins are on my regular routes, so I drop off rubbish into them. The drinks cans I mostly take home and rinse out so they can go into the recycling, and that will easily be about 50 per fortnight. I'd agree that Red Bull is the worst offender, followed by low quality branded alcohol - Fosters and Stella feature a lot.

Along country lanes I think a lot is thrown out by car and van drivers, especially food wrappers and cans around a couple of unofficial laybys. But the bridleways and footpaths can be almost as bad, and that must be mostly people on foot. I can't understand the idea of going for a country walk, taking a drink with you, then throwing the can or bottle down in woodland or a field. By the sheer numbers, I suspect some of it must be groups of underage teenagers buying alcohol, going somewhere out of sight to drink it, then throwing away the evidence. The hot spots are often near village shops or filling stations.

I think the only real answer is a 10p or more deposit on single use cans and bottles, refundable if they're returned to a shop. As with carrier bag charging, there'll be complaints that it's a nanny state tax, etc. but we'd get used to it, and it might get the local kids collecting cans instead of throwing them away. I believe other countries have made it work.
 

eMeS

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Not sure whether this also is a contributory factor: the Milton Keynes waste disposal sites stopped being "open" sites shortly after Covid-19 became a feature of our lives, and an appointment system went into use. This must mean that much "litter" type waste is no longer being collected, and perhaps this is now being strewn around the environment - to everyone's detriment.
 

John Webb

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Until 4 weeks ago I was limited to walks around my Hertfordshire 'village' (although it is bigger than many Yorkshire towns!). Now driving along some roads that Bald Rick has probably also been along, I can confirm that 'fly-tipping' seems to have significantly increased. Not clear if this is local householders unable to get to a council tip (all of which were closed for a while during lock-down) or unprofessional 'professionals'. The nature of the dumps indicate the former category is the most likely.
 

Mcr Warrior

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I think the only real answer is a 10p or more deposit on single use cans and bottles, refundable if they're returned to a shop. As with carrier bag charging, there'll be complaints that it's a nanny state tax, etc. but we'd get used to it, and it might get the local kids collecting cans instead of throwing them away. I believe other countries have made it work.
Good shout that. Been told of a story about a semi-pro football team hosting big time opposition in a national cup tie in the 1960's and a couple of entrepreneurial lads collecting all the discarded bottles after the game and getting more back in deposit refunds than their father had earned at work the previous week.
 

Meerkat

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Need to make drivers responsible for any litter from their vehicle so dashcam footage could be used without having to prove which occupant did it.
Then make the punishment a real pain - cash isn’t fair as it’s either too little for the rich to care or so big it is ruinous for the poor, so it needs to be time. I am thinking a few weekends of litter picking would be really annoying, with a fine that just covers the admin of the scheme. wasting your weekend picking litter off the verge of a motorway should be pretty discouraging!
 

DelW

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Need to make drivers responsible for any litter from their vehicle so dashcam footage could be used without having to prove which occupant did it.
Then make the punishment a real pain - cash isn’t fair as it’s either too little for the rich to care or so big it is ruinous for the poor, so it needs to be time. I am thinking a few weekends of litter picking would be really annoying, with a fine that just covers the admin of the scheme. wasting your weekend picking litter off the verge of a motorway should be pretty discouraging!
It doesn't detract from the gist of your scheme, but the famous Elf'n'safety would likely prevent its use on motorways.

It's actually illegal to be on foot on a motorway except when awaiting assistance after a breakdown. Years ago I worked on live carriageways of the M20 and M25, and I was issued with an official "walking permit" to allow that. I assume such things still exist.
 

Shimbleshanks

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In our neck of the woods (south London/Surrey), it's quite common for drivers of dropside trucks to get rid of unwanted builders rubble by opening the tailgate and spilling it all over quiet country lanes. Must cost the local authorities a fortune to clear up, while meanwhile the road has to be closed.
 

Hadders

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There are a couple of different issues:

1. General littering - this has nothing to do with whether local tips (recycling centres) are easy to access. I think there's generally more littering the closer you get to London, probably to do with a more transient population and a greater population density.
2. Access to recycling centres. When there is a wait of over 3 hours to access my local council run tip (and the council have had to introduce traffic management measures) and in neighbouring council areas you have to book a specific time slot, with none being available for at least two weeks, it's not hard to see why there's been an increase in fly tipping.
 
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Good shout that. Been told of a story about a semi-pro football team hosting big time opposition in a national cup tie in the 1960's and a couple of entrepreneurial lads collecting all the discarded bottles after the game and getting more back in deposit refunds than their father had earned at work the previous week.

Germany and Austria are full of bin-divers who root through rubbish bins for anything with a deposit.
 
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There are a couple of different issues:

1. General littering - this has nothing to do with whether local tips (recycling centres) are easy to access. I think there's generally more littering the closer you get to London, probably to do with a more transient population and a greater population density.
2. Access to recycling centres. When there is a wait of over 3 hours to access my local council run tip (and the council have had to introduce traffic management measures) and in neighbouring council areas you have to book a specific time slot, with none being available for at least two weeks, it's not hard to see why there's been an increase in fly tipping.

Our local one in Dorset is virtually back to normal. When the crisis started, they shut the tip, but when it reopened it was set up for social distancing, but it cut capacity to 6 cars, using barriers to separate the cars, and stop/go boards to control access. It was absolutely ridiculous as cars were separated by ~15 feet. But in the end sanity prevailed, barriers are still there but there is now room for~10 cars, which seems to cope with demand perfectly adequately, the sop/go boards are gone, and the usual queueing arrangement brought back. So no long queueing down the approach road, plenty of space to distance. The only thing that hasn't been reintroduced is the recycling section.
 

Bikeman78

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Living in close proximity to the local McDonalds, that is a regular source of litter in our front garden and on our road.

Disposible face coverings are also regular appearers now, having been...disposed of.
At one time it was suggested that vehicle reg numbers would be written on the packaging at drive through locations. Is this happening yet?
 

Bald Rick

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At one time it was suggested that vehicle reg numbers would be written on the packaging at drive through locations. Is this happening yet?

Never heard of that, but I had a similar idea only last week. Of course the restaurants won’t like it.
 

Cowley

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At one time it was suggested that vehicle reg numbers would be written on the packaging at drive through locations. Is this happening yet?
I hadn’t heard of that before but I can see quite a few ways of it not really working.
Rip off the bit with the reg on. Someone else writing your reg on something deliberately etc etc.
 

Trackman

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Germany and Austria are full of bin-divers who root through rubbish bins for anything with a deposit.
They have plastic bottle collecting machines in Germany that pay out money.
What is the going rate, about 20c a bottle?
I think they have them at supermarkets and petrol stations and the like.
 

Bald Rick

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They have plastic bottle collecting machines in Germany that pay out money.
What is the going rate, about 20c a bottle?
I think they have them at supermarkets and petrol stations and the like.

They used to have them here, in Tescos. You got a club card point for each can /bottle returned. Don’t think it worked out.
 

Trackman

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1/2p. But more than that in some offers.
was it 1p at one time? going back about 15 years ago.

Going back to the thread, I remember as a kid in the early 70's the lay-bys in the lake district having signs for litter dropping - fine £100.
It used to put the fear of god in us for dropping litter! (not that we did)
 

Bald Rick

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was it 1p at one time? going back about 15 years ago.

Going back to the thread, I remember as a kid in the early 70's the lay-bys in the lake district having signs for litter dropping - fine £100.
It used to put the fear of god in us for dropping litter! (not that we did)

Yes 1p originally. Those signs are still around. There’s a sign on the North Orbital near St Albans that says “No Dumping - fine £100” or similar, the ‘no dumping’ always made me snigger when I was younger!
 

Bobdogs

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They used to have them here, in Tescos. You got a club card point for each can /bottle returned. Don’t think it worked out.
One club card point is one pence. That is one per cent discount on your general shopping. Used to be one point per litre on fuel, but now one point per two litres
You used to get one green club card point for each bag you reused but that's now no more.
 
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Never heard of that, but I had a similar idea only last week. Of course the restaurants won’t like it.

I suggest you think about how this would work A carful of people arrive at the drive through. They order a Big Mac meal each. That would be 4 burger cartons, 4 chip cartons, 4 drink cups with 4 lids, minimum 1 drink cup carrier. Minimum 1 bag. Can you really see the poor assistant writing the car registration on 22 'disposable' items.
 

Meerkat

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It would never fly in court anyway.
”I put it in a bin - a fox, tramp, bin man, someone who doesn’t like me, or gust of wind must have moved it”
 

Bald Rick

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I suggest you think about how this would work A carful of people arrive at the drive through. They order a Big Mac meal each. That would be 4 burger cartons, 4 chip cartons, 4 drink cups with 4 lids, minimum 1 drink cup carrier. Minimum 1 bag. Can you really see the poor assistant writing the car registration on 22 'disposable' items.

Yep!hence why I said the restaurants wouldn’t like it! Also agree with the point about successfully prosecuting.

However I know of a case where a repeat offender dropped fast food bags, in roughly the same place on a frequent basis, and he was nabbed through the receipts he left in th bag. Dates / times / credit card details etc. Trouble is it’s a lot of effort for the police to chase what is seen as a relatively minor crime.
 

JohnMcL7

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I've noticed much the same when out cycling in the Highlands and assume it must be chucked out the side of vehicles, I've been surprised to see rubbish from McDonalds a good distance away from the nearest outlet on a rural country road. I'm about a mile from the city centre and a lot of rubbish dropped around here too as well particularly discarded takeaways which my ever hungry spaniel is always keen to find. I dread to think what the walking spots are going to be like with the flood of campers now using them for overnight accomodation.
 
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