Rude staff member at Manchester station

[chrischarles]

Hello

I would like to seek some advice because I am really seething and I'm not sure wether to go ahead and make a complaint or not against a member of staff. I have been travelling on the Northern network regularly and use it to commute between Manchester and stations futher down the line. I have endured many long delays and cancellations and have never EVER been abusive to staff or anyone else who are obviously just trying to do their job and are often the brunt of rudeness from some passengers.

However, today the train I was going to get was delayed by over 70 minutes. A few minutes before the train was due to arrive at our station, the tannoy said it was delayed due to a member of train crew staff was unavailiable so the train was stuck at the station before ours. Fair enough. I understand how train crews swap over and the train must be running behind. After about 40 mins and still delayed I was thinking about alternative ways to get home as the following 2 trains after ours had already been cancelled (plenty of notice beforehand). Then the tannoy announced emergency services were dealing with an incident futher down the line and this was the cause of the delay. So I was a bit confused what that meant, was the train crew present but now it was a different issue, or the same issue which prevented the train crew arriving and so both reasons were valid. Whatever, i wasnt too fussed. The important thing for me was to know if the late running train was going to be cancelled. I checked the northern journey check app and it didnt show as cancelled but I thought i'd ask the staff member on the platform (who blows the whistles etc..sorry dont know thier official titile) if he had any information.

The conversation went like this:

Me: "Excuse me, do you know if the train has been cancelled?"
Him: "Its been delayed due to emergency services dealing with an incident"
Me: "Oh Ok, So do you think it might be cancelled?"
Him: "It means its been delayed due to emergency services dealing with an incident"
Me: "Ok, but what i mean is, do you think it might be cancelled or something?"
Him: "It means Its been delayed due to emergency services dealing with an incident"
Me: "So it hasnt been cancelled?"
Him: "It means Its been delayed due to emergency services dealing with an incident"
Me: "So, its running, but its just waiting for the delay to clear?"
Him: "It means Its been delayed due to emergency services dealing with an incident"

Now to me, asking if the train is cancelled has 3 answers: Yes, no or I dont know. Either are perfectly fine, especially if the answer is I dont know. But the big problem for me was that I needed to arrange transport home if there was a good chance it would be cancelled. I guess what I was asking was his (professional) opinion or at the very least a friendly little exchange and I can understand in todays litigious society you have to be careful not to commit to something which somebody can hold you responsible for but it was just the outrageous obnoxiousness of his behaviour which had me seething. As I was asking him and he was just repeating his answer he was half walking away too, as if to say dont waste my time trying to talk to me.

What was worse was there was a very unpleasant traveller who was clearly upset about being delayed and looking for someone to take his frustration on, rudley kept interrupting me as I was asking the staff the question by half-yelling "IT MEANS THE TRAINS DELAYED, IVE BEEN HERE FOR AN HOUR WAITING"....I tried to ignore him but his attitude made it hard to talk to the staff so I turned to him and said firmly "excuse me" and then went back to trying to to the staff but then the traveller started swearing at me and the situation was in danger of escalating. The staff member could see this happening and he knew his attitude of repeating himself was unhelpful and contributing to the escalation but the staff carried on doing it.

I quickly realised I was getting nowhere and not wanting the situation to become worse, especially as I was between the rude traveller and the edge of the platform where a nasty push from him could have happened, I just walked away and out of the station. I was furious, especially as I had been nothing but polite to the staff guy but he really was very arrogant and obnoxious, like he was talking to a child. Although sadly, typing it all out, probably doesnt show that as well as the real life situation would have.

I guess this is as much of a venting post as well but what i'd really like to ask is if you think the staff member could have given me a better answer than what he did. The exchange just doesnt feel right to me and I dont know if I should raise the issue or if Im just overreacting. I dont expect heads to roll, but if he did that to me, then he will probably do it to someone else too.

This shouldnt matter, but I work in a patient facing role in healthcare and I've seen it and heard it all. Rude aggressive drunks I can tolerate, but when "normal" people behave this way and especially when it brings others into the situation like with that really unpleasent traveller, it really makes me angry.

Thanks for reading, sorry its so long!

 

[yorkie]

... he really was very arrogant and obnoxious, like he was talking to a child....

I would hope a child would be given a far better answer than that.

Unfortunately some people in customer facing roles just aren't good at interacting with customers.

I guess this is as much of a venting post as well but what i'd really like to ask is if you think the staff member could have given me a better answer than what he did.

Absolutely; they could say something like "Based on the information I have, there is currently no way to know if the train will be cancelled or not" or "At the moment the train is scheduled to run, but I can't rule out the possibility of a cancellation; unfortunately I don't have any further information at present" or something similar.

There is no need to simply repeat the same thing over and over again. If I felt I had answered a question and someone kept pestering me, I can't imagine I would just constantly repeat myself.

The exchange just doesnt feel right to me and I dont know if I should raise the issue or if Im just overreacting. I dont expect heads to roll, but if he did that to me, then he will probably do it to someone else too.

It may be worth making a complaint but unless the staff member has other complaints against their name I doubt much will be done. It's probably worth doing though as if they go round acting this way a lot, and if enough people complain, the company would be in a position to act.

I get the impression that complaints against staff at TOCs are not taken as seriously as they would be in workplaces I've worked at, though.

This shouldnt matter, but I work in a patient facing role in healthcare and I've seen it and heard it all. Rude aggressive drunks I can tolerate, but when "normal" people behave this way and especially when it brings others into the situation like with that really unpleasent traveller, it really makes me angry.

I've worked in variety of roles (including for the NHS and in roles that involve children pestering asking questions, sometimes asking the same thing multiple times!) and my view is that if you are in a role where you may encounter members of the public, you need to be able to interact with them in an appropriate manner. If this person felt you were being too persistent (whether justified or not) they should still have handled it in a better way, in my opinion.

Unfortunately I have encountered some very poor staff on the railways; it is very much the minority of staff, but those sort of interactions are not easily forgotten and leave a lasting impression. I've never had someone simply repeat the same thing constantly though.

As it happened, I asked a member of TPE staff for advice at Piccadilly the other day and they were not able to give a definitive answer but I was happy with the honest answer they gave; I think you were unlucky with the person you spoke to as they are a minority, albeit a very visible minority who give the industry a terrible name.

How long were you delayed by in the end? Have you put a Delay Repay claim in? If so, I'd keep this separate to any complaint (though it may be worth mentioning in any complaint what your delay repay reference number is).

 

[Bertie the bus]

I guess this is as much of a venting post as well but what i'd really like to ask is if you think the staff member could have given me a better answer than what he did. The exchange just doesnt feel right to me and I dont know if I should raise the issue or if Im just overreacting. I dont expect heads to roll, but if he did that to me, then he will probably do it to someone else too.

Three things:

1. I've found the information given at Manchester Piccadilly in times of disruption to usually be abysmal. So your experience is pretty much what I have found to be the norm.
2. The dispatchers on platform 13/14 can be rude and surly. They have been for years. Some are OK but it is very much a mixed bag.
3. Unfortunately with platform staff the company neither gives them the training nor the means to provide any useful information to passengers. Usually all they do is repeat parrot fashion what the PIS says, which is what happened to you. I have come across the occasional 1 or 2 who will make the effort to find more information but normally it is 'computer says xxx' and that is the limit of their knowledge.

Personally I wouldn't consider making a complaint in a situation like yours or I would be sending formal complaints on the majority of my delayed journeys.

 

[Starmill]

To be honest I wouldn't bother asking the staff, unless you need to in order to fulfil your obligations e.g. you wouldn't just board a train without a ticket if the ticket machine wasn't working, you'd then ask the staff where to buy a ticket. The staff would be unlikely to have any information beyond what you would be able to find out yourself from Twitter or by asking here. The company do not really give them the means to help. This does not excuse poor service but realistically what they should have said was "I'm sorry, I have no information beyond what it says on the screens and announcements. Please listen for further information."

 

[Bletchleyite]

To be honest I wouldn't bother asking the staff, unless you need to in order to fulfil your obligations e.g. you wouldn't just board a train without a ticket if the ticket machine wasn't working, you'd then ask the staff where to buy a ticket. The staff would be unlikely to have any information beyond what you would be able to find out yourself from Twitter or by asking here. The company do not really give them the means to help. This does not excuse poor service but realistically what they should have said was "I'm sorry, I have no information beyond what it says on the screens and announcements. Please listen for further information."

Or if being less formal "sorry mate, I only have the same information you do". I've had that more than once and it's a friendlier way of putting it in some ways and is generally accurate.

TBH if you've got a combination of Realtime Trains, Tiger - Real Time Train Information (which will give you exactly what's on the displays, but only at stations with the Worldline PIS) and the TOC's Twitter, plus JourneyCheck if the TOC uses it, you're probably better informed than the majority of staff.

 

[WesternLancer]

Hello

I would like to seek some advice because I am really seething and I'm not sure wether to go ahead and make a complaint or not against a member of staff. I have been travelling on the Northern network regularly and use it to commute between Manchester and stations futher down the line. I have endured many long delays and cancellations and have never EVER been abusive to staff or anyone else who are obviously just trying to do their job and are often the brunt of rudeness from some passengers.

However, today the train I was going to get was delayed by over 70 minutes. A few minutes before the train was due to arrive at our station, the tannoy said it was delayed due to a member of train crew staff was unavailiable so the train was stuck at the station before ours. Fair enough. I understand how train crews swap over and the train must be running behind. After about 40 mins and still delayed I was thinking about alternative ways to get home as the following 2 trains after ours had already been cancelled (plenty of notice beforehand). Then the tannoy announced emergency services were dealing with an incident futher down the line and this was the cause of the delay. So I was a bit confused what that meant, was the train crew present but now it was a different issue, or the same issue which prevented the train crew arriving and so both reasons were valid. Whatever, i wasnt too fussed. The important thing for me was to know if the late running train was going to be cancelled. I checked the northern journey check app and it didnt show as cancelled but I thought i'd ask the staff member on the platform (who blows the whistles etc..sorry dont know thier official titile) if he had any information.

The conversation went like this:

Me: "Excuse me, do you know if the train has been cancelled?"
Him: "Its been delayed due to emergency services dealing with an incident"
Me: "Oh Ok, So do you think it might be cancelled?"
Him: "It means its been delayed due to emergency services dealing with an incident"
Me: "Ok, but what i mean is, do you think it might be cancelled or something?"
Him: "It means Its been delayed due to emergency services dealing with an incident"
Me: "So it hasnt been cancelled?"
Him: "It means Its been delayed due to emergency services dealing with an incident"
Me: "So, its running, but its just waiting for the delay to clear?"
Him: "It means Its been delayed due to emergency services dealing with an incident"

Now to me, asking if the train is cancelled has 3 answers: Yes, no or I dont know. Either are perfectly fine, especially if the answer is I dont know. But the big problem for me was that I needed to arrange transport home if there was a good chance it would be cancelled. I guess what I was asking was his (professional) opinion or at the very least a friendly little exchange and I can understand in todays litigious society you have to be careful not to commit to something which somebody can hold you responsible for but it was just the outrageous obnoxiousness of his behaviour which had me seething. As I was asking him and he was just repeating his answer he was half walking away too, as if to say dont waste my time trying to talk to me.

What was worse was there was a very unpleasant traveller who was clearly upset about being delayed and looking for someone to take his frustration on, rudley kept interrupting me as I was asking the staff the question by half-yelling "IT MEANS THE TRAINS DELAYED, IVE BEEN HERE FOR AN HOUR WAITING"....I tried to ignore him but his attitude made it hard to talk to the staff so I turned to him and said firmly "excuse me" and then went back to trying to to the staff but then the traveller started swearing at me and the situation was in danger of escalating. The staff member could see this happening and he knew his attitude of repeating himself was unhelpful and contributing to the escalation but the staff carried on doing it.

I quickly realised I was getting nowhere and not wanting the situation to become worse, especially as I was between the rude traveller and the edge of the platform where a nasty push from him could have happened, I just walked away and out of the station. I was furious, especially as I had been nothing but polite to the staff guy but he really was very arrogant and obnoxious, like he was talking to a child. Although sadly, typing it all out, probably doesnt show that as well as the real life situation would have.

I guess this is as much of a venting post as well but what i'd really like to ask is if you think the staff member could have given me a better answer than what he did. The exchange just doesnt feel right to me and I dont know if I should raise the issue or if Im just overreacting. I dont expect heads to roll, but if he did that to me, then he will probably do it to someone else too.

This shouldnt matter, but I work in a patient facing role in healthcare and I've seen it and heard it all. Rude aggressive drunks I can tolerate, but when "normal" people behave this way and especially when it brings others into the situation like with that really unpleasent traveller, it really makes me angry.

Thanks for reading, sorry its so long!

Welcome to the forum.

Depressing to read your post.

I'd complain as you have written most of it up anyway - so not much more work to e-mail it to Northern (assume it was their staff member).

But def familiarise yourself with one of the info site like Real Time Trains (eg detailed mode) and / or others mentioned as they allow you to track your train in a way the railways own info systems don't really go into detail with and then you can see if it is on the move / cancelled etc which can be more helpful / easier than asking staff who may or may not know that much at the point you are asking. I doubt the guy knew much and may not have had time to find out any more either - so just should have explained that in a polite and professional manner.

 

[Bertie the bus]

Real Time Trains is of absolutely no use whatsoever in trying to establish whether a train might get cancelled or whether the driver who is scheduled to take over at Oxford Road is in position or on a delayed train.

It is totally depressing that people are advising passengers who are on a station and speaking to a member of staff to use information systems that are not even official railway systems to obtain information instead. That is the job of the railway and its employees. RTT has many uses but it certainly shouldn't be a replacement for the railway providing information to passengers on trains or at stations.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Real Time Trains is of absolutely no use whatsoever in trying to establish whether a train might get cancelled or whether the driver who is scheduled to take over at Oxford Road is in position or on a delayed train.

It is totally depressing that people are advising passengers who are on a station and speaking to a member of staff to use information systems that are not even official railway systems to obtain information instead. That is the job of the railway and its employees. RTT has many uses but it certainly shouldn't be a replacement for the railway providing information to passengers on trains or at stations.

To be fair I didn't say just RTT, I suggested using a set of four information sources which together give you as much as any member of platform staff is going to have.

The fix to problems with staff relieving other staff at Oxford Road is to pack in doing staff reliefs on Castlefield - staff who work short routes to Manchester Airport (e.g. from Preston/Blackpool) should work all the way, while staff on longer routes should be relieved at suitable outer locations with multiple platforms e.g. Preston. It's a big cause of problems there and always will be until they stop it.

 

[GusB]

There is no need to simply repeat the same thing over and over again. If I felt I had answered a question and someone kept pestering me, I can't imagine I would just constantly repeat myself.

There is if the person you're talking with absolutely refuses to listen to anything you have to say to them.

I've been in many a situation where I've tried my utmost to listen to customer concerns and explain the situation to them, but sometimes you encounter someone who simply refuses to listen to anything you say, no matter how reasonable you try to be. It gets to the stage where their pestering for constant updates and information interferes with your ability to get on and do the job. Occasionally you have to be really hard-nosed and shut them out, if only to give yourself a moment to think.

We're all human beings with our own foibles and limitations. I fully anticipate that there will be responses along the lines of "ah well, if you can't hack it, you shouldn't be in the job". That's fair enough, to an extent, but I'm willing to hazard a guess that the people who come out with such claptrap have never been in a customer-focussed job in their lives.

 

[js1000]

If this was a small business talking to a customer you'd rightly lose the client as this is no way to talk to paying customers and would potentially be brought up in a disciplinary hearing. It demonstrates a level of disrespect which is very regrettable.

Complain to Northern. The only way bad apples in the railway industry are rooted out is by the company being aware where customer service has fallen below the standards expected.

 

[AlterEgo]

To be honest I wouldn't bother asking the staff, unless you need to in order to fulfil your obligations e.g. you wouldn't just board a train without a ticket if the ticket machine wasn't working, you'd then ask the staff where to buy a ticket. The staff would be unlikely to have any information beyond what you would be able to find out yourself from Twitter or by asking here. The company do not really give them the means to help. This does not excuse poor service but realistically what they should have said was "I'm sorry, I have no information beyond what it says on the screens and announcements. Please listen for further information."

That's pretty much it. Unfortunately the staff really won't know if a 70 minute delayed train will or won't arrive, and if they guess, and they turn out to be wrong, that's also bad customer service.

I can't remember the last time I asked a member of staff in the UK about train running information because they rarely have better information than what's available on my phone.

I was just stranded this week in Alaska (!) due to a snowballing delay and had to rely on the conductor of the train for information and unfortunately "hurry up and wait" it is not a problem confined to the UK.

 

[philthetube]

What was worse was there was a very unpleasant traveller who was clearly upset about being delayed and looking for someone to take his frustration on, rudley kept interrupting me as I was asking the staff the question by half-yelling "IT MEANS THE TRAINS DELAYED, IVE BEEN HERE FOR AN HOUR WAITING"....I tried to ignore him but his attitude made it hard to talk to the staff so I turned to him and said firmly "excuse me" and then went back to trying to to the staff but then the traveller started swearing at me and the situation was in danger of escalating. The staff member could see this happening and he knew his attitude of repeating himself was unhelpful and contributing to the escalation but the staff carried on doing it.

The staff member has probably put up with this guy for the last hour, if so his attitude is understandable.

 

[voyagerdude220]

I was working yesterday at my Railway Station and had plenty of passengers asking me what was going on once the incident near Preston began to cause disruption.

Of course I couldn't give answers with confidence- I simply explained that a trespasser was preventing trains from running in the Preston area and unfortunately I wouldn't be able to accurately guess the length of delays.

Because of the incident short notice delays and cancellations may occur- so even when the lines reopened the trains may have been subject to further alterations (e.g. terminating at Preston for their back working) because of how late they were.

And of course apologise/offer alternative routes where available/mention delay repay etc.

To save the repetition the OP faced I would have simply said I'm sorry I don't know but there is certainly the risk the train could be cancelled at short notice.

 

[CW2]

I was just stranded this week in Alaska (!) due to a snowballing delay

The vision that conjured up in my mind was probably not what you intended!

 

[185]

Just a thought but could this stuck-record response be a result of the legacy of First North Western's (imo, comedy) 2003 grammar exercise, being repeated by those running Northern Rail West's training centre?

- Can't tell passengers about fatalities/hit by a train - it's an incident
- Can't ever use 'terminates' on the PA
- Must never use station stop
- Don't suggest to passengers when a stuck train 'might' show up
- Must never use phrase 'inconvenience caused'

etc..

 

[chrischarles]

Thank you very much for the replies. I find them to be very validating and helpful. To confirm this was a Northern service from Manchester Ox Rd to Blackpool north 15:05, with a northern staff member.

There is if the person you're talking with absolutely refuses to listen to anything you have to say to them.

I've been in many a situation where I've tried my utmost to listen to customer concerns and explain the situation to them, but sometimes you encounter someone who simply refuses to listen to anything you say, no matter how reasonable you try to be. It gets to the stage where their pestering for constant updates and information interferes with your ability to get on and do the job. Occasionally you have to be really hard-nosed and shut them out, if only to give yourself a moment to think.

We're all human beings with our own foibles and limitations. I fully anticipate that there will be responses along the lines of "ah well, if you can't hack it, you shouldn't be in the job". That's fair enough, to an extent, but I'm willing to hazard a guess that the people who come out with such claptrap have never been in a customer-focussed job in their lives.

In your opinion do you think the staff member answered my question? This has been playing on my mind and the words said are exactly as how I typed. Delivered in a very calm and soft spoken manner. You have had personal experience on the buses/trains so it would be nice to hear from the staffs side. If you were in my situation would you have felt you got an answer?

voyagerdude220:

To save the repetition the OP faced I would have simply said I'm sorry I don't know but there is certainly the risk the train could be cancelled at short notice.

I would have no problem with this answer.

The staff member has probably put up with this guy for the last hour, if so his attitude is understandable.

I cannot say for certain if the angry traveller and the staff member had interacted before, but just before I was spoke to him he was talking to another passenger and he appeared very relaxed with his body language, tapping his paddle against his thigh, almost in boredom(!) and the traveller he was talking to had a half smile on her face. Of course I can understand knock on feelings from one onto another. If I see someone visibly annoyed, I generally stay away from them, but I didn't get that impression from him. There are many posters expressing "Don't take it out on our staff" and threatening prosecution, which I fully agree with. Posters which say "Don't pass it onto others" maybe silly, but I do agree its important to consider the other persons perspective. However I'd be very surprised if the staff member went home and thought about how I felt after the event.


It is the morning after and after some thought I think it is best to raise the issue with Northern. Especially as its just a form which I fill in and I'm sure they receive many complaints everyday about other things. The fact is its not simply the staff members attitude, it was through his constant repeating of the same sentence which consequently then resulted in escalation and hostility against me with another traveller. I'm not a "brawler" and I genuinely felt threatened by him. The staff member was obviously aware of it but just carried on repeating himself. It felt almost like someone wanting to stir on a fight between 2 others to his glee. If the staff member had just shrugged and said "I dunno" and walked away, to be honest I would have found that to be a far better answer because it would not have drawn the ire of the traveller and at least I could have thought about what to do next, rather than having the decision made for me and leaving the station. I can never be annoyed at someone just because they haven't been told/don't know something.


Many times on the trains have been delayed due to suicides on the track. Mental health is important and I had the good sense to walk away and leave the situation I was very upset by what had happened and felt utterly helpless. I have very thick skin having worked in customer service and healthcare for my entire 15 year career where I have been through all sorts. The knock on effect was when I did get home (1 1/2 hours late), I walked in, forced a smile at my family, said I just need some alone time and sat in my shed for a few hours, so that I didn't pass on any feelings onto them. They knew something was wrong, which obviously affected them too. All because of someone else's behaviour.

What if he does that someone else, who then goes on to do who knows what? What if a fight had broken out with that traveller? This may sound dramatic but its unfortunate typing it out just doesn't capture the moment as well as watching it live. I have seen arguments break out over far less over the years as I'm sure many of us have.

The best I can hope for is that his supervisor/colleague just shows him my complaint. They can laugh at it if they want, but just by him reading it, perhaps he will keep it in mind as there will be many delays he will have to deal with in his line of work. If someone put in a complaint about me for something at work, I may disagree with it, but I would at least pause for thought in future situations.

The majority of Northern staff have been very helpful in my experience and as others have said, it is obviously the small minority who give the others a bad name. But it somewhat destroys trust between passengers and staff and that is not a desirable outcome for anyone. Next time I have a question I will probably search frantically though websites on my mobile, rather than "bother" the staff with my query because I really don't want to even risk a similar outcome again. It was a crowded platform and perhaps anyone who witnessed it may feel the same.

Thank you for your time in responding to my query. If I receive any response from northern, ill be sure to pass on the update.


P.S

Yorkie: How long were you delayed by in the end? Have you put a Delay Repay claim in? If so, I'd keep this separate to any complaint (though it may be worth mentioning in any complaint what your delay repay reference number is).

I arrived at 17:50 from a scheduled time of 16:25!. I always put a delay repay claim in and choose the free tickets option as that seems to save the most money for me . Good idea to reference the claim against the complaint, I shall certainly do that, Thanks.

 

[dakta]

Probably on my own here but the OP asked a question "Excuse me, do you know if the train has been cancelled?"

The reply was "Its been delayed due to emergency services dealing with an incident"

So that's the known status of things at the present which is likely the best you can do from a platform worker during chaos.

To push for a yes, no, don't know would only give an arrogant customer something to quote when they whinge about when circumstances change yet again. I wouldn't want to be giving concrete answers in a changing situation like that, be it yes, no or don't know (the latter itself could be the source of more aggo - why don't you know) so best to stick to what is known. Which it seems the worker did. That's the intel.

'Not currently' might be a more polite response, but again you can actually interpret that from his answer without much thought which didn't in itself appear that rude it was just a statement of the sitrep.

Would I report it? Nah, if such a complaint landed on my desk i'd put it down to a customer getting narky because he couldn't get staff to commit to an unknown variable in an emergency

 

[kristiang85]

To push for a yes, no, don't know would only give an arrogant customer something to quote when they whinge about when circumstances change yet again.

This seems to sum up much of the railway's attitude to paying customers, sadly.

 

[WesternLancer]

Probably on my own here but the OP asked a question "Excuse me, do you know if the train has been cancelled?"

The reply was "Its been delayed due to emergency services dealing with an incident"

So that's the known status of things at the present which is likely the best you can do from a platform worker during chaos.

To push for a yes, no, don't know would only give an arrogant customer something to quote when they whinge about when circumstances change yet again. I wouldn't want to be giving concrete answers in a changing situation like that, be it yes, no or don't know (the latter itself could be the source of more aggo - why don't you know) so best to stick to what is known. Which it seems the worker did. That's the intel.

'Not currently' might be a more polite response, but again you can actually interpret that from his answer without much thought which didn't in itself appear that rude it was just a statement of the sitrep.

Would I report it? Nah, if such a complaint landed on my desk i'd put it down to a customer getting narky because he couldn't get staff to commit to an unknown variable in an emergency

to which the reply to any follow up question from a passenger would best be along lines of "I'm sorry I can't tell you more than that as I simply have not been informed of other information as yet myself" - not just reply in a way that would wind people up.

 

[Fokx]

He was half walking away too, as if to say dont waste my time trying to talk to me.

I guess this is as much of a venting post as well but what i'd really like to ask is if you think the staff member could have given me a better answer than what he did. The exchange just doesnt feel right to me and I dont know if I should raise the issue or if Im just overreacting. I dont expect heads to roll, but if he did that to me, then he will probably do it to someone else too.

Not the most relevant part of your post here but staff are told to walk away from awkward customers and interactions which may get unpleasant or lead to arguments.

Now I’m not saying that you were unpleasant in anyway at all but the staff member (who I agree was a tad sharp and blunt with you) may have found your repetitive questioning unpleasant and moved on with the intention to avoid conflict.

However answering in a more passenger friendly way would have helped significantly, even if the answer was as simple as “I’m sorry but I have no information except that the service is indefinitely delayed”

 

[Falcon1200]

Can't tell passengers about fatalities/hit by a train - it's an incident

The continued use by some TOCs of the 'Emergency services dealing with an incident' explanation is bizarre; Before I retired (in 2016 !) it was recognised that it was far better to tell passengers as much as possible, so it was deemed acceptable to say 'a person struck by a train', the only proviso being that the exact location should not be stated (to prevent ghouls having a look), instead between x and y would be used, x and y being a fair distance apart. It is also the case that when such incidents occur absolutely no-one knows how long it will last for, being under the control of the Police and not the railway, however that does not of course excuse staff being rude to passengers.

"I'm sorry I can't tell you more than that as I simply have not been informed of other information as yet myself"

Agree, and as above the Police involvement could be mentioned also.

 

[kristiang85]

The continued use by some TOCs of the 'Emergency services dealing with an incident' explanation is bizarre; Before I retired (in 2016 !) it was recognised that it was far better to tell passengers as much as possible, so it was deemed acceptable to say 'a person struck by a train', the only proviso being that the exact location should not be stated (to prevent ghouls having a look), instead between x and y would be used, x and y being a fair distance apart. It is also the case that when such incidents occur absolutely no-one knows how long it will last for, being under the control of the Police and not the railway, however that does not of course excuse staff being rude to passengers.

Indeed. Generally passengers are extremely understanding when told bluntly a tragedy has happened. If anything it helps calm people down to put the relative triviality of being late into perspective. And people also appreciate being treated like adults.

Not being given any information at all really does not help, and if nothing is known then a sincere "I'm really sorry, I only know as much as you do right now" will tend to be enough for most people.

Of course there are the difficult and/or stressed passengers, which is when the training for those situations kicks in.

 

[LowLevel]

The problem with these situations is they can be very intense and there is only so far you can go to deal with self centred people who think you're trying to hide things from them. I don't mean that in an nasty way, but some people are just unpleasant and it becomes draining to deal with them hour after hour when you can't get away yourself.

I've had people trying to jump the queue ahead of a group of unaccompanied school kids aged 11 or 12 for taxis "because they need to get to work, they're only going home" after a fatality in ruralshire.

I've had a bloke giving me an extended lecture on how selfish the involved person was in an another incident (the deceased turned out to be a friend of mine).

I've had a chap tell me they think I'm lying about there having been a fatality shortly after the smashed up unit has arrived and distressed driver has been walked away - because there's always a different excuse, every day.

In all of the above cases I started off bring polite but being human dismissed them entirely not long after having advised them pointedly that I couldn't give two hoots about the impact on them, they could start behaving or start walking to their destination.

I think all of them saw sense too and apologised, but it isn't always guaranteed.

 

[Bertie the bus]

The continued use by some TOCs of the 'Emergency services dealing with an incident' explanation is bizarre; Before I retired (in 2016 !) it was recognised that it was far better to tell passengers as much as possible, so it was deemed acceptable to say 'a person struck by a train', the only proviso being that the exact location should not be stated (to prevent ghouls having a look), instead between x and y would be used, x and y being a fair distance apart. It is also the case that when such incidents occur absolutely no-one knows how long it will last for, being under the control of the Police and not the railway, however that does not of course excuse staff being rude to passengers.

The most bizarre thing about it is at Manchester Piccadilly is you can get both for the same incident if it happens somewhere between Stockport and Liverpool as Northern still use emergency services dealing with an incident but EMR have gone back to person struck by a train.

 

[RT4038]

This seems to sum up much of the railway's attitude to paying customers, sadly.

I think that is a little unfair. In these circumstances customers can easily become difficult because staff simply do not know the answer to their questions, whereas the customer believes that they should do, and are understandably reluctant to guess as this may be interpreted as a promise. Many people do not like having their lives disrupted with no information as to when and how it will get back to normal ('not in control')., and start getting angry and impatient.

Just because they are paying customers doesn't make them gods or 'always right' or entitled to information which is simply unavailable. Asking for the same information in a number of different ways doesn't make it any more available. @LowLevel shows some of the issues quite well.

 

[Haywain]

Mental health is important and I had the good sense to walk away and leave the situation I was very upset by what had happened and felt utterly helpless.

Maybe that was the case with the member of staff. I think its to be borne in mind that rail staff are humans as well.

 

[chrischarles]

Probably on my own here but the OP asked a question "Excuse me, do you know if the train has been cancelled?"

The reply was "Its been delayed due to emergency services dealing with an incident"

So that's the known status of things at the present which is likely the best you can do from a platform worker during chaos.

To push for a yes, no, don't know would only give an arrogant customer something to quote when they whinge about when circumstances change yet again. I wouldn't want to be giving concrete answers in a changing situation like that, be it yes, no or don't know (the latter itself could be the source of more aggo - why don't you know) so best to stick to what is known. Which it seems the worker did. That's the intel.

'Not currently' might be a more polite response, but again you can actually interpret that from his answer without much thought which didn't in itself appear that rude it was just a statement of the sitrep.

Would I report it? Nah, if such a complaint landed on my desk i'd put it down to a customer getting narky because he couldn't get staff to commit to an unknown variable in an emergency

I obviously didn't interpret "not currently" from his words. Perhaps to others it would have? One of my main aims of my post was to gauge how others would have interpreted his words and felt in my position before I go rushing to make a complaint. Hence typing out the conversation whilst I still remembered it.

In my opinion good customer service would be quite hard to achieve if we all spoke in a way that was always the "official company line", very robotic and just left it up to others to decode our sentences rather than use our own judgements, common sense and varied our words to be helpful. His repetitive comments obviously didn't leave me feeling like I was being helped, which is an important part of any customer service role. Perhaps I expecting something very unreasonable. To me actually saying even "that's all I know so far" is an answer I would have been perfectly happy with. But I would like to point out that there was a 3rd party involved and this is an important factor because the staff members words directly influenced this escalation and he knew it.....and carried on repeating himself.

I genuinely thank you for comment, even though it is hard for me to read. I have never worked for the rail service so I don't know what they have to deal with everyday. It offers a different point of view and again, this post was not just venting against the staff member but also for advice. I guess it ultimately does come down to the underlying relationship between rail staff and passengers, as kristiang85 alluded to.

Its a shame that he wasn't wearing a bodycam so we could all see if I was just being an arrogant narky passenger or just a normal everyday passenger asking a question. Whomever reads my complaint may share similar feeling as you do and if so, then that's just the way it is. I can only say how the situation made me feel and filing a complaint is all that I can do.

This seems to sum up much of the railway's attitude to paying customers, sadly.

Maybe that was the case with the member of staff. I think its to be borne in mind that rail staff are humans as well.

Of course they are human. IF he also felt upset about what happened then all the more reason to bring it to the attention of those in charge. I am not trying to imply my feelings are more important than anyone else's.

The problem with these situations is they can be very intense and there is only so far you can go to deal with self centred people who think you're trying to hide things from them. I don't mean that in an nasty way, but some people are just unpleasant and it becomes draining to deal with them hour after hour when you can't get away yourself.

I've had people trying to jump the queue ahead of a group of unaccompanied school kids aged 11 or 12 for taxis "because they need to get to work, they're only going home" after a fatality in ruralshire.

I've had a bloke giving me an extended lecture on how selfish the involved person was in an another incident (the deceased turned out to be a friend of mine).

I've had a chap tell me they think I'm lying about there having been a fatality shortly after the smashed up unit has arrived and distressed driver has been walked away - because there's always a different excuse, every day.

In all of the above cases I started off bring polite but being human dismissed them entirely not long after having advised them pointedly that I couldn't give two hoots about the impact on them, they could start behaving or start walking to their destination.

I think all of them saw sense too and apologised, but it isn't always guaranteed.

I am genuinely sorry for your experience. Do you think, just from what you read from my post, I was behaving like those you mentioned? A genuine question only for my self-reflection.

 

[dakta]

to which the reply to any follow up question from a passenger would best be along lines of "I'm sorry I can't tell you more than that as I simply have not been informed of other information as yet myself" - not just reply in a way that would wind people up.

True but is someone not being overly friendly or forthcoming a reporting matter? The question did get answered. The followup 'So do you think it might be cancelled?' is asking a worker to speculate which i think is itself asking a lot even though not malicious

If the person said he was 'too busy to assist' or 'how should I know' that'd be different

 

[Western Sunset]

From the OP:

Me: "Excuse me, do you know if the train has been cancelled?"
Him: "Its been delayed due to emergency services dealing with an incident"
Me: "Oh Ok, So do you think it might be cancelled?"
Him: "It means its been delayed due to emergency services dealing with an incident"

If that's verbatim, then it's a very poor response by the railway employee. The OP asked if the train had been cancelled. The first response by the staff member was fair enough, saying that due to emergency services it was delayed. But when the OP asked again if it was CANCELLED, for the staff member to continually repeat the same thing is unacceptable.

If they'd just said "Sorry, I don't know if it's been cancelled; all I know at the moment is that it's currently delayed" would've been much better. What was so difficult in saying that? For bonus points, the employee could've said that they'd try to find out.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Yeah, that is a rather passive-aggressive/antagonistic wording. "I don't know, I'm afraid" is all that was needed. Or "your guess is as good as mine" which might promote feeling in the same boat and thus less aggression.