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Running with the interior lights off

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Bletchleyite

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I would imagine there are axle driven generators on all loco hauled stock. Been on trains formed of mk 2d/e/f or mk 3 stock hauled for reasonable distances with no heat locos and light remained on. Happy to be corrected on that. Think advent of central door locking required an ETH (later ETS) fitted loco to prevent batteries going flat? Still remember no heat locos hauling said stock well into 1990s, though.

Would just be batteries on Mk3s I think.
 

hexagon789

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All Mk 1 and at least up to Mk 2 c. Heating on them has no link to lighting

Interesting, I always thought that Electric Heat coaches had the saloon lighting supplied off the ETH but I can see the logic in retaining axle-belt dynamos and batteries

I would imagine there are axle driven generators on all loco hauled stock. Been on trains formed of mk 2d/e/f or mk 3 stock hauled for reasonable distances with no heat locos and light remained on. Happy to be corrected on that. Think advent of central door locking required an ETH (later ETS) fitted loco to prevent batteries going flat? Still remember no heat locos hauling said stock well into 1990s, though.

Harris implies that for air-con Mk2s there are no belt-driven dynamos, unless I'm reading it wrongly. I should really have consulted it for the early Mk2s as well but somehow just assumed that the old dynamos went out with the Mk1 design.
 

61653 HTAFC

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That would have been excellent - even better with a run down to The Cross though!
Think they used the set that terminated at BDI in the afternoon, which I believe was later commandeered to run a peak extra to Hebden Bridge for Northern... think the crew would have run out of hours if they'd gone all the way to London sadly.
 

Lloyds siding

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I remember when I was a kid that Merseyrail trains on the Ormskirk line used to have lights off until stopping at Walton, then on for Kirkdale tunnels etc.
I remember the previous early LMS electric stock on that line, which were compartment coaches, like all compartment stock, it was up to the passengers to switch on the lights.
 

randyrippley

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I remember the previous early LMS electric stock on that line, which were compartment coaches, like all compartment stock, it was up to the passengers to switch on the lights.

But you've got that wrong - theswitch in compartment stock changed between low and high. The lights were on all the time
 

43096

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I would imagine there are axle driven generators on all loco hauled stock. Been on trains formed of mk 2d/e/f or mk 3 stock hauled for reasonable distances with no heat locos and light remained on. Happy to be corrected on that. Think advent of central door locking required an ETH (later ETS) fitted loco to prevent batteries going flat? Still remember no heat locos hauling said stock well into 1990s, though.
There's no axle driven generators on Mark 3s certainly (and I would think Mark 2DEF as well), battery charging is off the ETH.

If the stock has decent batteries, the lights will remain on for some time when "off juice". The issue, as you say, is more with CDL.
 

setdown

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Slightly off-topic maybe, but the Metrolink trams in Manchester have sensors that automatically turn the interior lights on in tunnels (and sometimes just some slightly-shaded places!).
 

ABB125

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I was on a railtour a few years ago (The Fifty-Niner) and on the way back the lights in the coach I was in weren't working. It was very dark inside...
 

Bletchleyite

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I was on a railtour a few years ago (The Fifty-Niner) and on the way back the lights in the coach I was in weren't working. It was very dark inside...

When the WCML was still the preserve of Mk2s and Mk3s there was often a coach with failed lighting, I used to seek it out on purpose for the excellent night-time view out. Sometimes staff asked you to move, but if you didn't they didn't do anything more.
 

peteb

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When the WCML was still the preserve of Mk2s and Mk3s there was often a coach with failed lighting, I used to seek it out on purpose for the excellent night-time view out. Sometimes staff asked you to move, but if you didn't they didn't do anything more.
I think they are more insistent nowadays due to health and safety concerns which is a shame for us who like it dark, but I can see it from the on-train staff's perspective!
 

Bletchleyite

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I think they are more insistent nowadays due to health and safety concerns which is a shame for us who like it dark, but I can see it from the on-train staff's perspective!

Yes, I suspect these days failure to move would result in BTP attendance, not being ignored.
 

Dr_Paul

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I'm pretty sure that years back it was normal for carriage lights to be off during the day and only turned on for tunnels. That meant that on the services I used most, up to and down from Waterloo, the lights were only turned on when it got dark. On the North London Line, which I used every so often, the lights would go on for the tunnel at Hampstead, but that's all. I can't recall whether at that time the lights on the District Line trains to and from Richmond were kept on after they surfaced at West Kensington (and likewise for other places where LT routes surfaced), but I suspect that they were.

There would be the odd time after dark when the lights in one carriage would be out. I've heard that it used to be the case on Southern electrics that if one bulb blew it would turn off all the carriage's lights, but I don't know if that is true.
 

yorksrob

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I'm pretty sure that years back it was normal for carriage lights to be off during the day and only turned on for tunnels. That meant that on the services I used most, up to and down from Waterloo, the lights were only turned on when it got dark. On the North London Line, which I used every so often, the lights would go on for the tunnel at Hampstead, but that's all. I can't recall whether at that time the lights on the District Line trains to and from Richmond were kept on after they surfaced at West Kensington (and likewise for other places where LT routes surfaced), but I suspect that they were.

There would be the odd time after dark when the lights in one carriage would be out. I've heard that it used to be the case on Southern electrics that if one bulb blew it would turn off all the carriage's lights, but I don't know if that is true.

It was apparently true for the 4SUB's.
 

peteb

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On the subject of BTP there were a number of "football specials" which ran without lights for at least part of the journey: it was a favourite pastime of some passengers to unscrew the reading light bulbs and chuck them out whilst passing stations en route, eg Tamworth and Rugby spring to mind. They made a right mess on platforms and plenty of noise. I did once see a special arrive at Euston, pretty well battered, at dusk, minus all lighting in the rear 2 carriages. BTP present to no doubt escort the passengers off the premises. This would have been around 1984.

It was apparently true for the 4SUB's.
Yes the slam door north London trains had lights off generally in daytime. I regularly got the Richmond bound train at Hampstead Heath in that period (mid 80s) and recall lights on for the tunnel only.

I'm pretty sure that years back it was normal for carriage lights to be off during the day and only turned on for tunnels. That meant that on the services I used most, up to and down from Waterloo, the lights were only turned on when it got dark. On the North London Line, which I used every so often, the lights would go on for the tunnel at Hampstead, but that's all. I can't recall whether at that time the lights on the District Line trains to and from Richmond were kept on after they surfaced at West Kensington (and likewise for other places where LT routes surfaced), but I suspect that they were.

There would be the odd time after dark when the lights in one carriage would be out. I've heard that it used to be the case on Southern electrics that if one bulb blew it would turn off all the carriage's lights, but I don't know if that is true.
Certainly I have been on the white and orange livery Thumper DEMUs (in the non corridor compartment at the end near the driver's cab) to Uckfield at evening rush hour with no lights except in tunnels, and then back with no lights at all. It was quite eerie!
 
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Rick1984

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My recollection is a little hazy bit a few years back I was definitely in a Mkiii carriage from Norwich to London with the lights not working. Not asked to move carriage
 

davetheguard

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I once caught a long loco-hauled train from Brig in Switzerland to Domdossola in Italy. I settled myself down in an empty compartment and it was only as we entered the mouth of the Simplon Tunnel just outside Brig station that I realised the lights in my coach weren't working! The only light was the small amount that filtered through from the vestibules of the carriages either side of my coach.

You literally couldn't see the hand in front of your face, and the tunnel is 12.3 miles/19.8 km long; an interesting experience!
 

peteb

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I once caught a long loco-hauled train from Brig in Switzerland to Domdossola in Italy. I settled myself down in an empty compartment and it was only as we entered the mouth of the Simplon Tunnel just outside Brig station that I realised the lights in my coach weren't working! The only light was the small amount that filtered through from the vestibules of the carriages either side of my coach.

You literally couldn't see the hand in front of your face, and the tunnel is 12.3 miles/19.8 km long; an interesting experience!
Excellent!
 

Ambient Sheep

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Yeah, the lovely old Class 305/2s I used to ride on the WAML in the 70s and 80s rarely had the lights on during the day.

Again, no tunnels (no electrification past Bishop's Stortford back then, so the pair around Audley End weren't relevant. :) ).
 

47444

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I've heard that it used to be the case on Southern electrics that if one bulb blew it would turn off all the carriage's lights, but I don't know if that is true.
On 4Sub units (and their 3 car predecessors, together with 2Nol, 2Bil, 2 Hall and 4 Lav) carriage lighting was provided using 600V traction supply. The bulbs were arranged in series with separate circuits for each side of the carriage - ie. each compartment or bay had two bulbs which were on the two different series circuits. So if one bulb failed, each compartment would still have the other bulb lit. I believe that this arrangement was due to their being no motor generator on these units.

Another consequence of this arrangement was that bulb changing was undertaken by traction electricians rather than carriage and wagon electricians.
 

Halish Railway

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I only have one experience of this happening and it was on a service from Ilkley to Bradford - The lights were only turned on after leaving Guiseley in preparation for the numerous tunnels between there and Baildon.

Another time I was on a service between Manchester Victoria and Bradford (originating at Oxford Road) that was operated by 158757 IIRC and the lights in the centre coach were broken. Oddly I was the only one sat in the rear coach as far as Rochdale, even though the guard told the passengers that the lights in the centre coach would not be turned on. It would have been interesting to go through the many tunnels on the route in pitch blackness.
 

philjo

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I have been on a few services without lighting. Most were the morning starters from Letchworth sidings. One I think it was a fault with the rear unit (2 x313). As the front unit Had lights - in the 2nd unit we were in the dark. Another time the whole train was dark. Normally Noticed by station staff at Stevenage who alerted the driver. Though a couple of times in summer so it wasn’t noticeable that there were no lights inside, we went though the Welwyn tunnels in the dark! The lights came on at WGC!

On a railtour last year the batteries in the coaches were faulty so very little light. Though they managed to fix it at Carlisle before the return journey. I understand there was not much light For the staff in the kitchen!
 

Iskra

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One of my favourite things about travelling in a sleeper berth is turning out the lights and opening the blinds. Watching the stars through rural Cornwall last night with accompanying 57 thrash was joyous.
 

Ashley Hill

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IIRC the rule book only required lighting during darkness or long tunnels. In compartment stock it was popular amongst some enthusiasts at night to take out a bulb insert a 1p coin and put bulb in to short the lights. This a- allowed one to doss and b-the guard couldn't check tickets.
Back in the winter we had about half an hour of sheet lightening, I asked my 6 passengers if they wanted to watch it. They did so I turned the lights out.
 

philthetube

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I had a ride down the
settle
carlisle a couple of years ago on a unit with defective,(no) lighting, I was surprised it was allowed.
 
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