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Easing of Coronavirus restrictions in Scotland

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35B

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Learned something new myself then, every day is a schoolday ;) Thanks
No problem. Not relevant to Lincoln, but as my now wife shared a house with vet students, and I knew a fair few medics and nurses, I rapidly learned that the traditional term dates were but a dream for many!
 

greyman42

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why is she so obsessed with ruining kids/young people’s education especially given they are probably at lowest risk from the virus. Pre-vaccination times she would have said “to protect grandma” but grandma should be fully vaccinated now and is probably horrified at being used as a excuse to ruin her grandchildren’s education.
Sturgeons record regarding children's education has been one of the worst in Europe for years.

Are pubs in Scotland back to normal then from the 9th?
 
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fraser158

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The new Regulations for Scotland have been published and come into force on Monday.


They indeed confirm that it is a requirement to wear face coverings:

"in a restaurant, cafe, bar, public house, nightclub, dance hall, discotheque or sexual entertainment venue and seated at a table," - Regulation 5(1)(e).

*Edit* The context of the words before means UNLESS seated at a table.
 

kez19

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The new Regulations for Scotland have been published and come into force on Monday.


They indeed confirm that it is a requirement to wear face coverings:

"in a restaurant, cafe, bar, public house, nightclub, dance hall, discotheque or sexual entertainment venue and seated at a table," - Regulation 5(1)(e).

So if I am correct and reading back a bit then about Jason Leitch and masks in nightclubs - it seems then that one hand doesn’t know what the other one is doing! (oh dear having the public on your side isn’t going to go down well when we have mixed messages as usual)

Should also add Holyrood to that list as just to quote above “seated at a table” and what do they in Holyrood? Sit at a table to rant (but wait it’s another example it’s a rule for us but not for them)
Jason Leitch confirmed that in an interview later in the day. He also suggested that face coverings in nightclubs would not be required "It does seem to me a bit odd to ask people to dance with face coverings on. I don't think we will be doing that."


Just to further add to this as above, did the likes of STV News or BBC Scotland pull a representative in regards to these changes and/or at least pull up Jason Leitch in what he said? Or does the scottish media just again rollover and let it slide by?
 
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Huntergreed

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Happily, I see that self-isolation is still not written into the law, neither is the mandatory PCR test to 'release' yourself from doing so. Another positive note is that I see the minimum 'age' where you must wear a face covering has been raised from 5 to 12. Excellent to see this as frankly forcing 5 year olds to wear masks is just disgraceful.

The fact that it is written in law to wear a mask on the dancefloor at a nightclub is frankly dangerous. I hope a petition comes out once people realise England is coping fine without masks. Sturgeon must back down.

The expiry date of February 2022 suggest to me that Sturgeon wants to retain the mandate until then (which, if true, she can forget it).

Clearly the proofreading time are on holiday this week:

These Regulations (which come into force on 9 August 2020) set out continuing requirements which apply in Scotland as a result of coronavirus and revoke the Health Protection (Coronavirus) (Restrictions and Requirements) (Local Levels) (Scotland) Regulations 2020.
(https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ssi/2021/277/note/made)

And most importantly, are they opening themselves up to legal challenge with this clause which, arguably, is true of the current endemic situation with the virus in Scotland?

The final provisions in Part 5 require the Scottish Ministers to review the requirements imposed by these Regulations at least once every 21 days, the first review taking place by 30 August 2021, and require them to revoke requirement as soon as it is no longer necessary to prevent, protect against, control or provide a public health response to the incidence or spread of coronavirus in Scotland.
(https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ssi/2021/277/note/made)

I hope so.
 
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D1024

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The fact that it is written in law to wear a mask on the dancefloor at a nightclub is frankly dangerous.

At a stretch maybe but the paragraph below from the regulations (Section 5, (1) r may be a get-out

(r)taking part in exercise of a type which reasonably requires that the person is not wearing a face covering,
 

Huntergreed

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At a stretch maybe but the paragraph below from the regulations (Section 5, (1) r may be a get-out

(r)taking part in exercise of a type which reasonably requires that the person is not wearing a face covering,
Watch a number of Scottish Nightclubs suddenly turn into 'night-time fitness centres' from Monday :lol:
 

devon_metro

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Happily, I see that self-isolation is still not written into the law, neither is the mandatory PCR test to 'release' yourself from doing so.

This just highlights the absurdity of the Scottish Government. Mandating by law that you wear a mask if you're entering a packed bar (realistically, the mask isn't going to help you or anybody else). Meanwhile, isolation could have an impact on the spread of the virus, yet legally you can simply ignore it.

I'm hopeful for disobedience when the absurdity of the situation plays out in real life.
 

MattA7

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Are places of worship required to take information under T&T I notice that the regulations target hospitality premises. Such as bars restaurants cafes etc (as if they haven’t suffered enough and I certainly won’t be attending any when T&T recording is still in force).
 

greyman42

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The new Regulations for Scotland have been published and come into force on Monday.


They indeed confirm that it is a requirement to wear face coverings:

"in a restaurant, cafe, bar, public house, nightclub, dance hall, discotheque or sexual entertainment venue and seated at a table," - Regulation 5(1)(e).

*Edit* The context of the words before means UNLESS seated at a table.
That's a pity. I will not be visiting Scotland while they do not offer mask free hospitality, as they seem to safely manage in England.
 

MikeWM

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Are places of worship required to take information under T&T I notice that the regulations target hospitality premises. Such as bars restaurants cafes etc (as if they haven’t suffered enough and I certainly won’t be attending any when T&T recording is still in force).

It doesn't appear so. Excluding masks :rolleyes: the only part I can see relevant to places of worship is this very ambiguous clause:

4.—(1) A person who is responsible for a place of worship, carrying on a business or providing a service must have regard to guidance issued by the Scottish Ministers about measures to minimise risk of exposure to coronavirus relating to its premises, business or service.

(2) Guidance issued by the Scottish Ministers may—
(a)make different provision for different cases or descriptions of case,
(b)incorporate (by reference or transposition) guidance, codes of practice or other documents published by another person (for example, a trade association, a body representing members of an industry or a trade union).

(3) Part 4 (enforcement) does not apply to a contravention of the requirement in paragraph (1).

So they 'must have regard' to 'stuff'. But with no apparent enforcement if they don't. Seems a pretty silly thing to put in the regulations really.
 

devon_metro

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Are places of worship required to take information under T&T I notice that the regulations target hospitality premises. Such as bars restaurants cafes etc (as if they haven’t suffered enough and I certainly won’t be attending any when T&T recording is still in force).

I do not believe there is a requirement to fill out accurate information (or at all). The legal onus is on the venue to ask for details. I tend to scan the QR code (or wave my phone near it) and then not bother filling it or - or with an incorrect phone number. I have never been asked for proof of doing it.
 

Watershed

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So they 'must have regard' to 'stuff'. But with no apparent enforcement if they don't. Seems a pretty silly thing to put in the regulations really.
Enforcement is 'only' excluded under the Coronavirus Regs. That doesn't stop people from arguing that it would be a breach of health and safety duties to ignore the requirement to have regard to the guidance.

It's part of the pernicious trend of trying to shoehorn guidance into becoming law. Which is ridiculous, seeing as the Regulations are already delegated, secondary legislation - and this puts restrictions even further from legal scrutiny (and judicial review, in extremis).
 

NorthOxonian

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That's a pity. I will not be visiting Scotland while they do not offer mask free hospitality, as they seem to safely manage in England.
Even Wales seem to be going for mask free hospitality (iirc they are only keeping them on public transport and in shops - two setttings too many for my liking, but better than Scotland).
 

devon_metro

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I’ve just seen this article which seems to say that you WON’T need to wear a mask when dancing.


Well, they might want to change the regulations then…

So based on the guidance, moving from dancefloor to the exit would require a mask. This really is desperate stuff. It would make far more sense if venues were deemed mask free zones, rather than having to wear them in certain situations in a venue, because frankly if a pub or nightclub is full, it's a complete waste of time (effectiveness of cloth masks aside!).
 

scotrail158713

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I’ve just seen this article which seems to say that you WON’T need to wear a mask when dancing.


Well, they might want to change the regulations then…
This is interesting and could really come back to bite them in trying to keep up compliance. One setting I’ve seen it mentioned in related to me is churches/places of worship. I’ve seen several people questioning why face coverings are still mandatory if they’re not in nightclubs. A quick look at the average church demographic compared to nightclubs and you really can’t argue with that.

It’s not just in these places though. There will be plenty of other places as well - e.g. schools. A quick search of social media shows such a high number of people questioning it now. I don’t think I’ve seen it to these proportions before.
 

317 forever

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I must say I used to go to Scotland twice a year at least for mini breaks, but the way St Nichola as been over the past 18 months, particularly towards the English, means I won't bother going there to spend my money and if I have to wear a mask even more of a reason not to. I wouldn't even mind if there was actual hard evidence behind the mask debate.... but there isn't.
On a positive its made us explore England a bit more as Scotland was always our go to, now have a week in Yorkshire for October half term and looking at Norfolk for next spring.
This year explored the lakes and been to Cornwall a few times (though Cornwall isn't really that far for us!)
I went to Edinburgh for the day from my Newcastle holiday in June. However, while I still see a risk of becoming a victim of test & trace if I stay there overnight I am still not having a weekend or short break in Scotland.

Likewise - was considering a few days in either Scotland or Anglia (mainly for the new trains there) later in the summer - the decision on which may have just got easier!
Given the choice between Abellio trains and Abellio trains, you may as well choose Abellio trains. :lol:

But seriously yes, for avoiding the risk of being forced to isolate you are making a very wise choice.
 
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Huntergreed

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I went to Edinburgh for the day from my Newcastle holiday in June. However, while I still see a risk of becoming a victim of test & trace if I stay there overnight I am still not having a weekend or short break in Scotland.


Given the choice between Abellio trains and Abellio trains, you may as well choose Abellio trains. :lol:

But seriously yes, for avoiding the risk of being forced to isolate you are making a very wise choice.
I agree, but remember isolation is only advisory in Scotland. It is not legally mandated or enforced, so you can choose to follow the advice or to disregard it at will :)
 

Scotrail314209

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Tomorrow is the big day!

Masks remaining, but I'm still very excited for it.

Just my luck to get Costochondritis though.
 

317 forever

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I agree, but remember isolation is only advisory in Scotland. It is not legally mandated or enforced, so you can choose to follow the advice or to disregard it at will :)
Oh that's not so bad then. Admittedly, due to doubts about how Scottish tourism would be relaxed this year, I factored this in and made other plans instead. Mind you, in terms of forthcoming buses for Glasgow & Dundee in particular, I prefer to wait until next year anyway. I haven't been to Dundee since 2014, but having last been to Glasgow in 2019 I shall probably wait for new Subway trains and possibly even the East Kilbride electrification.
 

nedchester

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Remember when they had regional restrictions there was a claim that the regulations applied to where you came from. So if you were in a restricted area like Tier 4 and you went to a tier 1 area you had to follow tier 4 rules.

Turning this around if I go from England (free for all, no masks etc) then maybe I can go to Scotland and keep my English rules!!!!
 

MattA7

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can’t say I’m that looking forward to it as there isn’t really much to look forward to I will be avoiding the hospitality industry (if they are struggling they only have themselves to blame) even the places of worship possibly won’t be back to normality especially as the regulations regarding them aren’t clear. So no light at the end of the tunnel for me and no doubt many others. I’m just wondering and worrying if we in Scotland north will ever see normal life again.

tomorrow is just a pathetic attempt by SNP to look good by replacing restrictions with “mitigation measures” thing the public are to stupid to realize it’s the same thing
 

Huntergreed

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7 minutes until “freedom day” in Scotland and I couldn’t feel less free.

For as long as I legally have to wear a bit of cloth over my face, I will not accept that I am “free” and I will reject anyone claiming that it’s a “necessary, minor sacrifice”.

This isn’t about health, this is entirely political and shameful. I’m disappointed by the population of Scotland for not pushing harder against this. The sooner I can leave this country behind me, the better.
 

MattA7

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7 minutes until “freedom day” in Scotland and I couldn’t feel less free.

For as long as I legally have to wear a bit of cloth over my face, I will not accept that I am “free” and I will reject anyone claiming that it’s a “necessary, minor sacrifice”.

This isn’t about health, this is entirely political and shameful. I’m disappointed by the population of Scotland for not pushing harder against this. The sooner I can leave this country behind me, the better.

its not just masks which is bad enough even if exempt (due to fear of confrontation and the fact it draws attention to myself which as someone with Asperger’s syndrome and social anxiety I don’t like attention being drawn to myself) but also the fact she still has T&T mandated in the hospitality industry and some of the regulations are ambiguous particularly regarding places of worship and masks/compulsory table service in restaurants. Not to mention her treatment of secondary school pupils and staff with her nonsense which appears to have angered a lot of parents.

its depression and actually quite frightening to be sitting home worrying if we will ever see normality again in Scotland especially when England pretty much has it. If I was in England I would be rather optimistic about the future however as a Scottish resident I’m the very opposite.

we can only hope
1) the crime rate sores through the roof and masks are a major obstacle for police identification (I feel bad for actually wanting something like that to happen)
2) scientists discover masks are actually spreading the virus due to people touching their face
3) most people give false details to test and trace turning it into a joke
 

Falcon1200

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This isn’t about health, this is entirely political and shameful. I’m disappointed by the population of Scotland for not pushing harder against this.

In Glasgow Central last week it was noticeable how many people were not wearing masks already, even before Freedom (or rather, slightly less Restrictive) Day. There will be a cumulative effect, as those who are wearing masks see others without them more and more will think what's the point, regardless of what our Glorious Leaderene says.
 

Scotrail314209

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can’t say I’m that looking forward to it as there isn’t really much to look forward to I will be avoiding the hospitality industry (if they are struggling they only have themselves to blame)

Might I ask what makes you think this?

It's not them who invented the mask thing...

Hospitality businesses have been struggling for the last year and a half through no fault of their own, it's a bit selfish to say that it's their fault. If they get caught disobeying guidelines, they are breaking the law and frankly I can't blame businesses for wanting to not take the risk of getting caught.
 

MikeWM

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Hospitality businesses have been struggling for the last year and a half through no fault of their own, it's a bit selfish to say that it's their fault. If they get caught disobeying guidelines, they are breaking the law and frankly I can't blame businesses for wanting to not take the risk of getting caught.

Is that true in Scotland? In England there was never any legal requirement for a business to enforce mask-wearing, beyond the requirement to inform (via a sign or other means) that it was required. The penalties were all for individuals who didn't follow this information. (I'm sure there were activist councils that tried to go above-and-beyond that, of course).

That said, I do understand your point that businesses have been repeatedly put in intolerable situations over the past 18 months and it may be reasonable to give them a little slack on occasion.
 
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