• Our booking engine at tickets.railforums.co.uk (powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!

ScotRail’s New Trains Procurement Programme

Status
Not open for further replies.

diamond chap

Member
Joined
25 Mar 2016
Messages
45
An advert for a tender for legal services for the above (https://www.publiccontractsscotland.gov.uk/search/show/search_view.aspx?ID=AUG455691) gives some more detail on the fleet plan
ScotRail Trains (SRT) plans to replace 65% of its train fleet (around 675 carriages) in the period 2027 to 2035. Nine of the eleven sub fleets of trains currently operated will be replaced as leases expire and it becomes uneconomical to life extend trains for continued operation. As part of this programme SRT will decarbonise our entire train fleet helping Scottish Government deliver a key milestone in transitioning Scotland to a net zero economy. All existing diesel trains will be withdrawn and replaced with new trains powered by overhead electric wires, batteries or hydrogen. As well as eliminating carbon emissions from passenger rail services in Scotland, this will transform our customer offer improving journey comfort, accessibility and reliability. We will reduce operating costs and improve the consistency of offer to customers by consolidating the number of different sub fleets we operate from the existing eleven to, ideally, five.
This transformation will be delivered through three procurement competitions:
- Phase 1 2022-23 - we will procure a new fleet of suburban trains which will enter passenger service between 2027 and 2030. These trains will connect local communities with Edinburgh, Glasgow, Perth, Dundee and Aberdeen.
- Phase 2 2024-25 (indicative) we will procure a new fleet of trains for our rural routes.
- Phase 3 2025-26 (indicative) we will procure a new fleet of intercity trains to connect the central belt with Aberdeen and Inverness.
SRT require legal advice services to support us in running efficient and compliant procurement competitions which deliver trains which meet our customer, technical and operational requirements whilst providing value for money for the taxpayer. Value for money extends beyond the capital and operating cost of the new trains to include the economic and societal benefits which can be delivered for local communities and businesses through such significant investment from Scottish Government. Ensuring the new trains are constructed in a manner which minimises the impact on the environment will also be a key factor in delivering a successful sustainable procurement.
The first phase of the new trains programme will be to procure a new fleet of suburban electric and battery electric multiple units (EMU and BEMU). Including options, the suburban procurement is envisaged to cover around 120 units comprising around 550 vehicles. We envisage the minimum core order being 64 units and 295 vehicles.
The scope of the procurement will also include Maintenance services – tenderers will be required to submit options for both a Technical Services Agreement and Technical Support and Spares Supply Agreement and a decision on the route which provides best overall value for money will be taken prior to contract award.
Upgrades will be required to maintenance depot and servicing and stabling facilities. These are likely to be delivered by our partners in Network Rail, but we will investigate during the procurement if there is benefit in works being delivered by the train Manufacturer and Maintainer.
A separate procurement is anticipated be held in parallel with that of the trains to identify a suitable financier.
Following contract awards on the suburban trains procurement, it is envisaged that the team will move onto developing and delivering procurements for the rural and intercity fleets.
The legal advisors will be required to provide ad hoc contract management and legal support to the SRT project team managing the design, manufacture, testing, commissioning and approvals process of the new trains contracts.
SRT is acting to deliver the procurement on behalf of Scottish Rail Holdings (SRH) who are a public sector company, owned and controlled by the Scottish Government. SRH report to Transport Scotland (TS) who are the national transport agency for Scotland, responsible for delivering the Scottish Government's vision for transport.
 
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

TT-ONR-NRN

Established Member
Joined
30 Dec 2016
Messages
10,415
Location
Farnham
Did I read that right - in 2022/23 they will order trains that will enter service “by 2030”?? Up to eight years?!
 

XAM2175

Established Member
Joined
8 Jun 2016
Messages
3,469
Location
Glasgow
Did I read that right - in 2022/23 they will order trains that will enter service “by 2030”?? Up to eight years?!
No, it quite literally says "enter passenger service between 2027 and 2030".

Given that it also says:
The first phase of the new trains programme will be to procure a new fleet of suburban electric and battery electric multiple units (EMU and BEMU). Including options, the suburban procurement is envisaged to cover around 120 units comprising around 550 vehicles. We envisage the minimum core order being 64 units and 295 vehicles.
... it's fairly likely that the "minimum core order" is sized to replaced the 55 Class 318 and 320 units and that the excess will be to take advantage of further electrification, including in discontinuous areas requiring the use of battery supply. With that in mind the timeframe doesn't seem all that unreasonable if you look at it as being phased to allow for the life remaining in the 318s and 320s, and for the progress of electrification works, and of course for testing and certification and acceptance of the new units. It certainly isn't hugely ambitious, but I've come over time to much prefer "achievable" instead :p

Interestingly too the ~120 units totalling ~550 vehicles gives an average of 4.58 vehicles per unit, which might indicate a bit of a shake-up in standard unit sizes.
 

47550

Member
Joined
14 Jul 2017
Messages
176
Location
Manchester
Nice to see long term planning for Scotland’s railways. A rolling electrification programme and fleet replacement planned out. I’d be pretty confident that this will get delivered given that other electrification projects have done so to date.

Meanwhile, over the border….
 

meld3

Member
Joined
28 Aug 2019
Messages
125
Location
West Midlands
"Nine of the eleven sub fleets of trains currently operated"
"consolidating the number of different sub fleets we operate from the existing eleven to, ideally, five"

I can only count 10 fleets now? - 43, 153, 156, 158, 170, 318, 320, 334, 380, 385.

Future 5 fleets? - 380, 385, Suburban EMU, BEMU, Intercity ??
 

Trainbike46

Established Member
Joined
18 Sep 2021
Messages
2,254
Location
belfast
"Nine of the eleven sub fleets of trains currently operated"
"consolidating the number of different sub fleets we operate from the existing eleven to, ideally, five"

I can only count 10 fleets now? - 43, 153, 156, 158, 170, 318, 320, 334, 380, 385.
maybe they still included class 68 + mark 2 coaches?
Future 5 fleets? - 380, 385, Suburban EMU, BEMU, Intercity ??
At least one of the future fleets will be the planned far north/kyle of lochalsh/west highland fleet (probably hydrogen)

So that would make:
380, 385, suburban (B)EMU, Far north fleet, IC
more likely
 

Energy

Established Member
Joined
29 Dec 2018
Messages
4,423
"Nine of the eleven sub fleets of trains currently operated"
"consolidating the number of different sub fleets we operate from the existing eleven to, ideally, five"

I can only count 10 fleets now? - 43, 153, 156, 158, 170, 318, 320, 334, 380, 385.

Future 5 fleets? - 380, 385, Suburban EMU, BEMU, Intercity ??
334 will be a bit young to be replaced.

With their (and 318 and 320s) bodies being 20m and not an easy upgrade to 24m for the infrastructure I wonder if the new trains will be 20m.
 

Trainbike46

Established Member
Joined
18 Sep 2021
Messages
2,254
Location
belfast
334 will be a bit young to be replaced.

With their (and 318 and 320s) bodies being 20m and not an easy upgrade to 24m for the infrastructure I wonder if the new trains will be 20m.
But the document quoted does suggest only 2 fleets will stay, which would make the 380s and 385s the most likely candidates to stay
 

Bletchleyite

Veteran Member
Joined
20 Oct 2014
Messages
97,540
Location
"Marston Vale mafia"
With their (and 318 and 320s) bodies being 20m and not an easy upgrade to 24m for the infrastructure I wonder if the new trains will be 20m.

5 x 24 = 120 = 6 x 20, though, so the two (unlike 23s) do fit together-ish. Will be interesting to see. New 20m trains are possible, e.g. 701s.
 

LNW-GW Joint

Veteran Member
Joined
22 Feb 2011
Messages
19,555
Location
Mold, Clwyd
This plan scotches any likelihood of 22x or any other post-BR diesel fleet finding work in Scotland.
Going the other way, another TOC might be interested in the 158/170 cascades, when they come.
 

Bletchleyite

Veteran Member
Joined
20 Oct 2014
Messages
97,540
Location
"Marston Vale mafia"
This plan scotches any likelihood of 22x or any other post-BR diesel fleet finding work in Scotland.

I don't think it does at all, on an interim basis, if it is felt the HSTs are either too thirsty or inadequately safe for drivers. It's 5-10 years, tending towards 10, until the new IC trains will be ready for squadron use. ("We will procure" probably means ordered in that timescale - delivery and into-service tends to take 3-5 years)
 

Xavi

Member
Joined
17 Apr 2012
Messages
638
"Nine of the eleven sub fleets of trains currently operated"
"consolidating the number of different sub fleets we operate from the existing eleven to, ideally, five"

I can only count 10 fleets now? - 43, 153, 156, 158, 170, 318, 320, 334, 380, 385.

Future 5 fleets? - 380, 385, Suburban EMU, BEMU, Intercity ??
The ex-321 (320) fleet will be under a separate lease.
 

XAM2175

Established Member
Joined
8 Jun 2016
Messages
3,469
Location
Glasgow
I don't think it does at all, on an interim basis, if it is felt the HSTs are either too thirsty or inadequately safe for drivers. It's 5-10 years, tending towards 10, until the new IC trains will be ready for squadron use. ("We will procure" probably means ordered in that timescale - delivery and into-service tends to take 3-5 years)
Yes, but that would still be a change from the original intent, as far as I understand it - the plan as put here is consistent with the idea of running the HSTs into the ground and then replacing them with a new-build fleet. Of course as you note it doesn't rule out a short-term interim IC fleet if continued HST operation becomes politically difficult.
 

TT-ONR-NRN

Established Member
Joined
30 Dec 2016
Messages
10,415
Location
Farnham
"Nine of the eleven sub fleets of trains currently operated"
"consolidating the number of different sub fleets we operate from the existing eleven to, ideally, five"

I can only count 10 fleets now? - 43, 153, 156, 158, 170, 318, 320, 334, 380, 385.

Future 5 fleets? - 380, 385, Suburban EMU, BEMU, Intercity ??
It said subfleets, not fleets.

43/153/156/158/170/318/320-3/320-4/334/380/385

Yes, but that would still be a change from the original intent, as far as I understand it - the plan as put here is consistent with the idea of running the HSTs into the ground and then replacing them with a new-build fleet. Of course as you note it doesn't rule out a short-term interim IC fleet if continued HST operation becomes politically difficult.
You’re exactly right when you say this plan will run them into the ground. By 2032, I would hate to see what state these fifty-two (the oldest built in 1975) year old locomotives will be in. Let’s hope their replacements are borderline faultless and allow for an early entry like that Class 197 seems to be gearing up for :D

People seem quite keen to get the Meridians up to replace them (while capacity per carriage is reduced, I’d be all for this myself possibly) and a transfer like this could end up happening short-term if retaining the HSTs prove to be a challenge, until the new fleet lands. Numerous posts on here do seem to suggest ScotRail are getting fed up with the HSTs. I won’t go into that in more detail though so as to not become speculative.
 
Last edited:

GRALISTAIR

Established Member
Joined
11 Apr 2012
Messages
7,807
Location
Dalton GA USA & Preston Lancs
Nice to see long term planning for Scotland’s railways. A rolling electrification programme and fleet replacement planned out. I’d be pretty confident that this will get delivered given that other electrification projects have done so to date.

Meanwhile, over the border….
I totally agree.
 

TT-ONR-NRN

Established Member
Joined
30 Dec 2016
Messages
10,415
Location
Farnham
Nice to see long term planning for Scotland’s railways. A rolling electrification programme and fleet replacement planned out. I’d be pretty confident that this will get delivered given that other electrification projects have done so to date.

Meanwhile, over the border….
I totally agree.
If you ask me, it’s really rather ambitious. Not the entrance into service dates of the new fleet… the fact they’re allowing eight years for the first fleet from procurement to being in service is quite the opposite… but the fact they’re going to rely so heavily on the development of Hydrogen and Battery trains to the point where they’re going to be working all currently non-electrified routes bar East Kilbride and Fife Circle, and a stretch upto Dundee.

This isn’t SWR or Southern with small unelectrified sections. ScotRail has miles of routes that will stay unelectrified, from the mainlines and many branches from Edinburgh and Glasgow to Aberdeen, Perth and Inverness, Aberdeen to Inverness, the Far North Line, West Highland Line and much more.

What progress have we had of working hydrogen and battery trains so far? An unsuccessful 379 conversion to battery ten years ago, and not a dickie bird since besides two woefully slow and uninspiring (and they were slow and uninspiring, I’ve been on one) 319 conversions to hydrogen power and a conversion of some London Underground trains to battery power, the current ones of which will never reach over 75mph working on the Borderlands and Greenford branch. Admittedly these are conversions and trains built intentionally for battery or hydrogen power might be great, but naturally it’s an enormous risk as we have next to no experience of powering trains this way yet.

I’m not being deliberately pessimistic, I just wish a lot of luck to ScotRail completely pledging to remove all diesel operation while only electrifying a small proportion of their unelectrified network, while hydrogen and battery trains are as undeveloped as they are now - certainly in this country anyway.

On a brighter side, replacing the knackered 318/320/334 and HST fleets was long over due, and I’m glad they’re doing it, I’m just disappointed by how long the delivery times will be. Though as I said, if the HST replacement fleet is to be powered by hydrogen, I reckon they’ll need the time for that one.
 

Bletchleyite

Veteran Member
Joined
20 Oct 2014
Messages
97,540
Location
"Marston Vale mafia"
What progress have we had of working hydrogen and battery trains so far? An unsuccessful 379 conversion to battery ten years ago, and not a dickie bird since besides two woefully slow and uninspiring (and they were slow and uninspiring, I’ve been on one) 319 conversions to hydrogen power and a conversion of some London Underground trains to battery power, the current ones of which will never reach over 75mph working on the Borderlands and Greenford branch. Admittedly these are conversions and trains built intentionally for battery or hydrogen power might be great, but naturally it’s an enormous risk as we have next to no experience of powering trains this way yet.

Hydrogen trains are in service in a number of parts of Europe, they are nothing new. Hydrogen and compressed natural gas buses too.

Battery is also now mainstream for shorter routes, e.g. Merseyrail are having an entire fleet built.

Ignore the old-stock bodge jobs. Saying they mean battery/hydrogen isn't feasible is like saying the lack of success of the Class 769 or 230 means DMUs aren't feasible.
 

Trainbike46

Established Member
Joined
18 Sep 2021
Messages
2,254
Location
belfast
If you ask me, it’s really rather ambitious. Not the entrance into service dates of the new fleet… the fact they’re allowing eight years for the first fleet from procurement to being in service is quite the opposite… but the fact they’re going to rely so heavily on the development of Hydrogen and Battery trains to the point where they’re going to be working all currently non-electrified routes bar East Kilbride and Fife Circle, and a stretch upto Dundee.
You forgot the borders railway electrification, and the plans to electrify actually extend up to Aberdeen, both of which are firmly planned to happen in the not too distant future
This isn’t SWR or Southern with small unelectrified sections. ScotRail has miles of routes that will stay unelectrified, from the mainlines and many branches from Edinburgh and Glasgow to Aberdeen, Perth and Inverness, Aberdeen to Inverness, the Far North Line, West Highland Line and much more.
The only routes that are planned to stay fully unelectrified are the Far north, Kyle and West highland lines. In addition, the stranraer line won't be electrified beyond Girvan. All other lines are scheduled to be electrified, with the vast majority of the work supposed to be happening before 2035
What progress have we had of working hydrogen and battery trains so far? An unsuccessful 379 conversion to battery ten years ago, and not a dickie bird since besides two woefully slow and uninspiring (and they were slow and uninspiring, I’ve been on one) 319 conversions to hydrogen power and a conversion of some London Underground trains to battery power, the current ones of which will never reach over 75mph working on the Borderlands and Greenford branch. Admittedly these are conversions and trains built intentionally for battery or hydrogen power might be great, but naturally it’s an enormous risk as we have next to no experience of powering trains this way yet.
I’m not being deliberately pessimistic, I just wish a lot of luck to ScotRail completely pledging to remove all diesel operation while only electrifying a small proportion of their unelectrified network, while hydrogen and battery trains are as undeveloped as they are now - certainly in this country anyway.
They will certainly need luck with the pace their electrification projects will need to go at, but they're certainly not only electrifying a small portion of their unelectrified network!
On a brighter side, replacing the knackered 318/320/334 and HST fleets was long over due, and I’m glad they’re doing it, I’m just disappointed by how long the delivery times will be. Though as I said, if the HST replacement fleet is to be powered by hydrogen, I reckon they’ll need the time for that one.
As I understand it, the HST replacement fleet is to be OHLE electrified, possibly with batteries for short, hard to electrify sections
 

snowball

Established Member
Joined
4 Mar 2013
Messages
7,674
Location
Leeds
If you ask me, it’s really rather ambitious. Not the entrance into service dates of the new fleet… the fact they’re allowing eight years for the first fleet from procurement to being in service is quite the opposite… but the fact they’re going to rely so heavily on the development of Hydrogen and Battery trains to the point where they’re going to be working all currently non-electrified routes bar East Kilbride and Fife Circle, and a stretch upto Dundee.
You suggest the Fife circle will be an exception to the use of BEMUs. In fact I think it (along with the Levenmouth branch) will be the first use of BEMUs. After the currently announced partial Fife electrification, more than half the Fife circle will still be unwired, as will the entire routes from Ladybank to Dundee and Perth.

With no new trains now to be delivered before 2027 there may be some time for further battery development within the procurement timescale?

ScotRail has miles of routes that will stay unelectrified, from the mainlines and many branches from Edinburgh and Glasgow to Aberdeen, Perth and Inverness, Aberdeen to Inverness, the Far North Line, West Highland Line and much more.
You should read the plan announced in July 2020:


The plan is to use partial electrification and battery trains as an intermediate stage to electrifying the whole passenger network except the remotest lines.

On a brighter side, replacing the knackered 318/320/334 and HST fleets was long over due, and I’m glad they’re doing it, I’m just disappointed by how long the delivery times will be. Though as I said, if the HST replacement fleet is to be powered by hydrogen, I reckon they’ll need the time for that one.

Hydrogen trains will be reserved for the remotest lines, not the HST-run lines.
 
Last edited:

TT-ONR-NRN

Established Member
Joined
30 Dec 2016
Messages
10,415
Location
Farnham
I’m pleased to see there will be much more electrification than I had been aware of, thanks to the above for informing me on this. However, it remains still slightly ambitious that all of this can be electrified in time. I hope it will be. :)
 

RailWonderer

Established Member
Joined
25 Jul 2018
Messages
1,588
Location
All around the network
They seem to have in mind those German Alstom regional trains, assuming Bombardier Alstom UK would be able to provide such a product. These timeframes and assumptions about the technology are ambitious, as is the assumption Treasury funding will be ample.

The 318s and 320s should have been replaced with a follow on 385 order already but those unreliable HSTs have got to be next. Half of the IC services are ran by 158s and 170s still, and surely Meridians would be a better stop gap right now. 156s will have to be kept for the WHLs and 158s for the FNL and Kyle lines for clearance reasons but my guess is Northern and EMR takes all the 170s to replace 150s and 156s in the years to come.

Still, chances are these dates get silently pushed back and soon ignored like what we saw with Anglia when some trains were introduced 2 years late.
 

waverley47

Member
Joined
17 Apr 2015
Messages
483
They seem to have in mind those German Alstom regional trains, assuming Bombardier Alstom UK would be able to provide such a product. These timeframes and assumptions about the technology are ambitious, as is the assumption Treasury funding will be ample.

The 318s and 320s should have been replaced with a follow on 385 order already but those unreliable HSTs have got to be next. Half of the IC services are ran by 158s and 170s still, and surely Meridians would be a better stop gap right now. 156s will have to be kept for the WHLs and 158s for the FNL and Kyle lines for clearance reasons but my guess is Northern and EMR takes all the 170s to replace 150s and 156s in the years to come.

Still, chances are these dates get silently pushed back and soon ignored like what we saw with Anglia when some trains were introduced 2 years late.

Eh. The 318/314/320 fleet aren't really suitable for replacement with a 385. The latter get very unhappy on the short frequent stopping nature of Strathclyde runs, and the latter are 23m coaches, meaning quote a large tranche of platform extensions and station rebuilds would be needed.

Much better to wait a couple of years and order a fixed length 5*24 fleet with traction motors that don't overheat if you have a stop every 400m.


Meridians and voyagers aren't going to happen. The optics of that, with space/energy inefficent trains replacing the HSTs isn't going to go down well with customers. Leaving aside the reliability issues, the HSTs are quite comfy and spacious trains, and they're bedding in reasonably well. I'm not surprised ScotRail want rid of them, but ScotGov aren't going to want their replacement to be voyagers. ScotGov already have the HSTs, and waiting until Meridians are available takes you halfway to 2027 anyway.


Regarding your first paragraph, some points of order. Battery trains built from new are possible, but no-one has really invested the time or effort in this country to create them, instead funding piecemeal conversions of old EMUs that aren't ever really successful. Hydrogen trains run perfectly well on the continent, and the fact that there's a generous timescale allows you to invest the time and money to make sure they work out of the box, and the infrastructure is in place.

The whole tranche is funded by the ScotGov, in a self contained funding package. As are the wiring and reopening programs. I'd not be worried about what is happening south of the border, and equally, I'd expect ScotRail not to really care about the need for diesel units south of the border. I'd expect these fleets to be funded in the same way as the 385s: an £Xm per year contract for twenty years, including maintenance, followed by an option for the ScotGov to purchase the units off the leasing company for a nominal fee.
 

Bletchleyite

Veteran Member
Joined
20 Oct 2014
Messages
97,540
Location
"Marston Vale mafia"
In what way does a 385 get "unhappy" on a stopping service? Aren't they basically just Hitachi's 23m version of a 350? The latter are used on everything from 50 mile non-stop 110mph runs to Merseyrail like stopping services around Brum.
 

diamond chap

Member
Joined
25 Mar 2016
Messages
45
They seem to have in mind those German Alstom regional trains, assuming Bombardier Alstom UK would be able to provide such a product. These timeframes and assumptions about the technology are ambitious, as is the assumption Treasury funding will be ample.

Would the Treasury fund them? Would they not be funded by Transport Scotland / Scottish Government? (I appreciate that much of the SG funding comes from the Treasury (some income tax receipts come direct), but it comes in the form of a block grant and it's up to the SG how that's distributed)
 

Energy

Established Member
Joined
29 Dec 2018
Messages
4,423
Would the Treasury fund them? Would they not be funded by Transport Scotland / Scottish Government? (I appreciate that much of the SG funding comes from the Treasury (some income tax receipts come direct), but it comes in the form of a block grant and it's up to the SG how that's distributed)
The trains are leased anyway, "A separate procurement is anticipated be held in parallel with that of the trains to identify a suitable financier.".
 

Strathclyder

Established Member
Joined
12 Jun 2013
Messages
3,180
Location
Clydebank
In what way does a 385 get "unhappy" on a stopping service? Aren't they basically just Hitachi's 23m version of a 350? The latter are used on everything from 50 mile non-stop 110mph runs to Merseyrail like stopping services around Brum.
I believe @waverley47 is referring to the 334s there, which have had a history of traction motors overheating whenever put on Cathcart Circle services.
 

waverley47

Member
Joined
17 Apr 2015
Messages
483
I believe @waverley47 is referring to the 334s there, which have had a history of traction motors overheating whenever put on Cathcart Circle services.
In what way does a 385 get "unhappy" on a stopping service? Aren't they basically just Hitachi's 23m version of a 350? The latter are used on everything from 50 mile non-stop 110mph runs to Merseyrail like stopping services around Brum.

The traction motors on the 385s also have a habit of overheating on the Cathcart Circle, and and individual unit can only be diagrammed twice around the circle before being sent on a faster duty.

This has been well documented on here but I'll try find a quote.

It's in the "ScotRail class 385" thread, in the latter pages, but I can't seem to quote it here. Starting at #4480, there is detail that all of 385, 380 and 334 have motors that overheat due to the regen braking.
 

323235

Established Member
Joined
8 Dec 2007
Messages
2,076
Location
North East Cheshire
Hydrogen trains are in service in a number of parts of Europe, they are nothing new. Hydrogen and compressed natural gas buses too.

Battery is also now mainstream for shorter routes, e.g. Merseyrail are having an entire fleet built.

Ignore the old-stock bodge jobs. Saying they mean battery/hydrogen isn't feasible is like saying the lack of success of the Class 769 or 230 means DMUs aren't feasible.
I’m sure Merseyrail are only fitting 7 units with batteries on the last article I saw so not a whole fleet. They don’t want the dead weight of batteries being carted around on units which may not use them for days or weeks at a time.
 

Bletchleyite

Veteran Member
Joined
20 Oct 2014
Messages
97,540
Location
"Marston Vale mafia"
I’m sure Merseyrail are only fitting 7 units with batteries on the last article I saw so not a whole fleet. They don’t want the dead weight of batteries being carted around on units which may not use them for days or weeks at a time.

They have recently decided to fit the whole fleet, partly for flexibility and partly because the weight is offset by being always able to use regen rather than only when another unit is in section and accelerating.
 

Strathclyder

Established Member
Joined
12 Jun 2013
Messages
3,180
Location
Clydebank
The traction motors on the 385s also have a habit of overheating on the Cathcart Circle, and and individual unit can only be diagrammed twice around the circle before being sent on a faster duty.

This has been well documented on here but I'll try find a quote.

It's in the "ScotRail class 385" thread, in the latter pages, but I can't seem to quote it here. Starting at #4480, there is detail that all of 385, 380 and 334 have motors that overheat due to the regen braking.
I admittedly haven't been following the thread in question, but thanks for the heads-up regardless. I was well-aware of the 334s' issues in this particular respect, but not that the same applied to the 380s/385s.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Top