ScotRail HST Introduction - Updates & Discussion

47827

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Regarding the use of the HSTs, are there supposed to be set diagrams for these? It seems a little pointless having HSTs, 170s and 158s all operating the same route. Isn’t the idea to provide an intercity service between capitals?

A good part a knock on of the last year or so I'm afraid. There would be a higher numbers of diagrams by now if the full timetable was reinstated and loadings back to normal, but probably still a few too many unit diagrams on the 3 core routes owing to the late delivery of resources and the site at Cadder.
 
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Stathern Jc

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Is anyone able to give a brief update on progress (or what remains to be done) at Cadder? Or an informed prediction of an opening date?
Is there a timetable change in December that would appear to be a suitable point for amendments to diagrams / stabling arrangements?
(Bear with me for not trawling far, but a search from 1st September only produced passing references)
Thanks
 

waverley47

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Gone past cadder a lot in the past month, progress appears to be gathering pace.

All the track works have been done, tied in and presumably signalling has been tied in.

The washer is installed, although obviously no way of knowing if it's operational. Same with the fueling stations and staff walkway for cleaning ect.

However, none of the site buildings have been completed or handed off, but theyre there and going up quickly, so when they're done we should see a short period of testing before signing off.

From what I've heard, end of November for it being useable in service, and that looks about right from what's there. Obviously there will be a transition period as diagrams ect are worked out and staff familiarise themselves with the depot, but shouldn't be too long now.
 

Gonzoiku

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HST TS 42035 spotted on a low loader northbound A9 just south of Aviemore this morning. Presumably ex Doncaster, assumed to be headed for Inverness, or are there interesting developments to come at Strathspey?

GZ
 

hexagon789

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HST TS 42035 spotted on a low loader northbound A9 just south of Aviemore this morning. Presumably ex Doncaster, assumed to be headed for Inverness, or are there interesting developments to come at Strathspey?

GZ
Yes, en route to Inverness. I think that leaves only 42056 now.
 

BRX

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Is it really easier to move a (presumably fully functional?) railway vehicle by road than by rail?
 

najaB

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Is it really easier to move a (presumably fully functional?) railway vehicle by road than by rail?
For a single power car, yes it can be. For one thing it would be limited to the speed it can run (60mph?) unless there were also some carriages. Fitting that in on the 125mph ECML might be more trouble than it's worth.
 

superalbs

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For a single power car, yes it can be. For one thing it would be limited to the speed it can run (60mph?) unless there were also some carriages. Fitting that in on the 125mph ECML might be more trouble than it's worth.
42035 is a trailer, which is something of an even bigger problem to move on its own. :lol:
 

Gonzoiku

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Is it really easier to move a (presumably fully functional?) railway vehicle by road than by rail?

From the perspective I had yesterday, far back in a lengthening queue of traffic on a single carriageway trunk road with no alternative route whatsoever ..... NO!

But keeping in mind that paths on the mostly single track Highland mainline are hard to find ..... almost certainly yes.

GZ
 

BRX

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You'd think it might make sense to move it by rail to Edinburgh, and add it into a set there, so that its first trip along the HML is northbound rather than southbound. But are things such that it can only be put into service in Inverness?
 

InvHst

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You'd think it might make sense to move it by rail to Edinburgh, and add it into a set there, so that its first trip along the HML is northbound rather than southbound. But are things such that it can only be put into service in Inverness?

If its a coach e they need to be sent to inverness first for exam before clearance to enter service they won't put a single one behind powercars since so little left to be delivered then makes sense to road to inverness and then road back to Haymarket. 5 cars are limited still what they can work 3 and 4 in inverness are just a tad too small to operate 5 cars currently
 

marks87

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I spotted this on Twitter - an invitation to tender was posted in September inviting bids to modify the HST fleet to carry more cycles:

Suppliers are asked to provide a bid for the manufacture, supply and installation of addition cycle racks to ScotRail's Inter-city HST fleet. The additional rack will increase cycle capacity on each rake from two to 12 spaces per service. This would be achieved through creation of four additional spaces within a Trailer Saloon Car (lot 1) and a further three spaces within each Power Car (lot 2). This would see a total increase in available spaces when the fleet is full deployed from 40 spaces to 240 spaces.
The design work and engineering change for this project is complete and signed off by all stakeholders.
Lot 2 is subject to staff and trade union consultation. This lot will not be awarded until it has been approved.


Presumably the staff and trade union consultation re power car spaces relates to who would be responsible for managing it, e.g. opening the doors, stowing/retrieving the bikes (or letting the public in to do it themselves) etc.
 

Towers

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I spotted this on Twitter - an invitation to tender was posted in September inviting bids to modify the HST fleet to carry more cycles:




Presumably the staff and trade union consultation re power car spaces relates to who would be responsible for managing it, e.g. opening the doors, stowing/retrieving the bikes (or letting the public in to do it themselves) etc.
This came up previously somewhere, on this thread or another. I pointed out that the power cars already had racks fitted for three cycles per loco in the van areas at the inner ends when they left GWR, and a fellow poster then provided a picture which demonstrated that they are, at least in some cases if not all, still there! Why Scotrail can't make use of that is baffling, FGW/GWR used to.
 

najaB

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Why Scotrail can't make use of that is baffling, FGW/GWR used to.
They can physically use them. The main issue is, as noted above:
Presumably the staff and trade union consultation re power car spaces relates to who would be responsible for managing it, e.g. opening the doors, stowing/retrieving the bikes (or letting the public in to do it themselves) etc.
 

Towers

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They can physically use them. The main issue is, as noted above:
But are they not inviting tenders for someone to design and install what sounds like the same sort of kit into the power cars? Where it already exists?
 

najaB

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But are they not inviting tenders for someone to design and install what sounds like the same sort of kit into the power cars? Where it already exists?
The kit might be as simple as a new, passenger-friendly locking system for the door, or it could be a complete new bike rack. We'd need to see what the tender is for exactly.
 

cjmillsnun

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I have my doubts that unsupervised passenger access would be allowed. It would be an ideal place for fare dodgers.
 

hexagon789

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The kit might be as simple as a new, passenger-friendly locking system for the door, or it could be a complete new bike rack. We'd need to see what the tender is for exactly.
Does it not say that it is for the fitting of additional cycle racks - 4 in a TS and 3 in each power car?


Suppliers are asked to provide a bid for the manufacture, supply and installation of addition cycle racks to ScotRail's Inter-city HST fleet. The additional rack will increase cycle capacity on each rake from two to 12 spaces per service. This would be achieved through creation of four additional spaces within a Trailer Saloon Car (lot 1) and a further three spaces within each Power Car (lot 2). This would see a total increase in available spaces when the fleet is full deployed from 40 spaces to 240 spaces.
 

najaB

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Does it not say that it is for the fitting of additional cycle racks - 4 in a TS and 3 in each power car?
It's not 100% clear. All we can say for sure is that there will be new racks fitted and that there will be a total of ten additional cycle spaces available per set. It's possible to read it that the work will involve new racks in the power cars, it could be modification of the existing ones or it could simply be making the existing racks usable.
 

BRX

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Whatever they are I hope they'll be proper racks rather than those unusable vertical hanging things. Had to attempt to use some of those on an IET recently - they are terrible.
 

43096

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The kit might be as simple as a new, passenger-friendly locking system for the door, or it could be a complete new bike rack. We'd need to see what the tender is for exactly.

I have my doubts that unsupervised passenger access would be allowed. It would be an ideal place for fare dodgers.

I also suspect that some kind of traction interlock would be needed as well if not already fitted.
There's not a cat in hell's chance of passengers being given unsupervised access to the power car vans. Interlock isn't really an option as they are manual doors and the doors themselves are notorious for being quite awkward to close properly (with risk that they come open in service). Add to that, weren't ScotRail flapping previously about the fire system going off, even though the van is separated from the area covered by the Inergen system by the cooler group?
 

fgwrich

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There's not a cat in hell's chance of passengers being given unsupervised access to the power car vans. Interlock isn't really an option as they are manual doors and the doors themselves are notorious for being quite awkward to close properly (with risk that they come open in service). Add to that, weren't ScotRail flapping previously about the fire system going off, even though the van is separated from the area covered by the Inergen system by the cooler group?
The ATP system in the van space may be gone, but there's also the various MTU engine management system items in there too. As you say, not a cat in hell's chance of anyone being allowed to be in that area unsupervised.
 

43096

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The ATP system in the van space may be gone, but there's also the various MTU engine management system items in there too. As you say, not a cat in hell's chance of anyone being allowed to be in that area unsupervised.
There's also parking brake apply/release controls in there on power cars numbered 43152 and below, the Q-Tron OTMR recording equipment is also in the van, as are the Inergen fire bottles.
 

najaB

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There's not a cat in hell's chance of passengers being given unsupervised access to the power car vans.
I don't think it will be allowed either, but if it was then there would definitely need to be a modification of some sort to the doors since, as you say, they can come open in service if not closed and latched correctly.
I thought it was, but I guess not
As I note, it can be read in more than one way. We know that there are new racks, we know that the Power Car spaces will have some work done to them to make them useable. It doesn't state that the power cars are getting new racks.
 

hexagon789

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As I note, it can be read in more than one way. We know that there are new racks, we know that the Power Car spaces will have some work done to them to make them useable. It doesn't state that the power cars are getting new racks.
I took 'additional' to mean new throughout bar the existing ones in use in the TS
 

najaB

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I took 'additional' to mean new throughout bar the existing ones in use in the TS
Oh, it very well might. However, if the other interpretation is correct it wouldn't be the first time that a government agency has phrased things so as to give the impression that more is being done than actually is.
 

Steven_G

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From the original plan the power car plans were end-to-end bike storage, no access with intermediate stops.
 

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