ScotRail Industrial Relations issues (including conductor strike action)

[ScotRail158725]

funnily enough, I’ve noticed over the last few days that some units have had the “operated by Abellio” stickers removed from the doors, so obviously even they don’t want to be associated with the mess the TOC is in any more. Unfortunately no-one cleaned off the crud underneath so there’s a perfect impression of the sticker in dirt on the silver of each door panel.

This is nothing to do with “not wanting their name on this mess” its just removing the branding for the franchise change in a few months time, like what happened when they took over and first had their logos of trains mid 2015

 

[bluesfromagun]

Make Sunday part of the working week

Now there's a novel idea! It's something that's long overdue, but the appetite for it from the companies side seems non-existent.
To the best of my knowledge, ScotRail have never under NX, First, or Abellio seriously discussed this with staff / trade unions. The staff, I'm fairly certain, for the right sum of money would accept it. The issue, as ever, would be money - and in order to make an acceptable offer it would need to be a greater add-on to the salary than the current monetary value of average booked Sundays, which for most grades is 15-20 per year. Personally I'd be very happy to work a few more Sundays per year but get an extra rest day in their place, along with the higher pensionable salary. A nice side effect of Sunday becoming part of the working week is that it would make rosters far kinder to staff; presently Sunday doesn't exist, so the rules regarding rest periods 'where a rest day intervenes' don't count, and as a result its very common to work 1600 to 0100 on a Saturday, and then 0400 to 1300 on a Monday. As you can imagine, that isn't at all conducive to safety critical staff being at their best come the Monday morning.
Sunday becoming part of the working week would mean that change from lates to earlies taking place in midweek over double rest days rather than on a single Sunday.
The main benefit to Sunday becoming part of the working week is of course to the general public, where the train operator has the same resources available on a Sunday as they do Monday to Saturday, and can thus provide the same level of service if required.

 

[alangla]

This is nothing to do with “not wanting their name on this mess” its just removing the branding for the franchise change in a few months time, like what happened when they took over and first had their logos of trains mid 2015

From what I remember, First started debranding a few weeks before the end of the franchise and it happened fairly quickly. I think NatEx did the same. This is starting months in advance and right before a 2 week spell where the trains will be front & centre.

 

[Devon Sunset]

It’s been going on for a few weeks along with other general handback repairs. Your correct in saying it’s started earlier than the last time but maybe the fleet is in an overall worse condition than last time round and more work is required? It’s definitely not connected with the recent dispute.

 

[Falcon1200]

Thank goodness the dispute is over - and we even get Sunday trains back !

Now there's a novel idea! [Sundays part of the working week] It's something that's long overdue, but the appetite for it from the companies side seems non-existent.
To the best of my knowledge, ScotRail have never under NX, First, or Abellio seriously discussed this with staff / trade unions.

Sundays were not part of the working week through my entire railway career (1978 to 2016) and there was never any attempt by BR or their successors to make them such. I cannot see any way that will change without either reducing staff take-home pay or increasing the cost of running the service - Most likely both. The first will IMHO never be accepted by staff and the second would be hard to justify at the best of times, never mind now, given the public subsidy required to keep the railway going.

 

[Goldfish62]

Thank goodness the dispute is over - and we even get Sunday trains back !



Sundays were not part of the working week through my entire railway career (1978 to 2016) and there was never any attempt by BR or their successors to make them such. I cannot see any way that will change without either reducing staff take-home pay or increasing the cost of running the service - Most likely both. The first will IMHO never be accepted by staff and the second would be hard to justify at the best of times, never mind now, given the public subsidy required to keep the railway going.

Sundays have been part of the working week on SWT/SWR for the best part of the past 20 years so it's clearly not the case that it would never be accepted by staff.

 

[43066]

Sundays have been part of the working week on SWT/SWR for the best part of the past 20 years so it's clearly not the case that it would never be accepted by staff.

It’s more that it isn’t accepted (or desired) by TOCs as it increases costs. AIUI this has been the case for a long time, dating right back to the days of BR.

 

[ComUtoR]

To make the railway network more efficient when it comes to staffing there's 3 things that could easily be done to fix most of the issues:

Make Sunday part of the working week

Have incentives for working the busiest periods of the year regarding overtime and rest days

Regular communication between unions and Transport Scotland so that farces like the one we've just seen can't happen.

Sunday's should be done but TOC side is where the problem is. The cost is rather substantial.

Incentives are good but as mentioned, shouldn't be required. There should be sufficient staff to run the service. Pushing for incentives just encourages rest day working and keeps the TOC at the mercy of their staff.

At my TOC and I'm sure many, if not all, of the others. The Union is in constant communication. Deals and agreements are done off the table all the time. When is comes to more formal and permanent agreements (pay deals) that's when everything breaks down.

The rostering system is antiquated and not fit for purpose. Staffing levels are not fit for purpose. The culture of doing things on the cheap is not fit for purpose. The railway is broken. It needs overhauling in its entirety.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

As soon as COP26 is done and dusted, the unions and Transport Scotland need to get around the table and start serious negotiations of what comes next - particularly the RMT as the conductor / TE deal is short term to the end of the franchise.

The issues ducked for the whole of ScotRails time in the private sector such as making the railways formally a seven day a week railway need to be grasped so we’re not back here in this sh*tshow level of industrial relations repeatedly.

However, I do think there needs to be a wholesale discussion about the role of onboard staff in the medium term.

Given what Scot Gov says it wants to achieve with decarbonisation and modal shift, carrying on as its always been doesn’t seem to be an option. The railway must be more resilient, dependable and attractive to travellers. That’s requiring a mix of better onboard ambience and facilities, more capacity (not less), higher (not lower) frequency.

The rise of at least part time Working from Home can be as much an opportunity as a threat, make it as easy to work on the train as home. Less time in the office might actually have a positive outcome for business travel demand vs decline of regular commuting.

Pre Covid longer distance ScotRail services and in particular the Inter7City services should have had 3 members of staff. You can have a second or even third safety critical staff onboard without necessarily having an unchanged traditional guards role. A closed buffet on the HSTs for example is not enhanced onboard facilities… they should be open throughout with either a trolley or at seat ordering and delivery option.

Ultimately better pay and conditions can come from a successful and expanding railway going forwards as a major part of the solution to transport challenges in what needs to be a changing world post COP26. Surely far better to be part of that, than to be left as an archaic irrelevance in terminal decline which is where it felt ScotRail might have been heading had the strikes happened.

Great response and applies across the whole industry but privatisation has created multiple T&Cs that have deviated from even the gloop that BR inherited 60 years ago so any attempt to harmonise across all operators is fraught with problems the biggest of which will be cost but unless its tackled head on the industry risks this sort of issue continuingly springing up. For me this is another key policy area for GBR to address as part of reconstructing the industry albeit i get ScotRail through TS can do there own thing it would be better for the industry collectively to work with the unions here as they are integral to the outcome however much others on here would like to see them out of the equation its not going to happen.

 

[John Bishop]

Sunday's should be done but TOC side is where the problem is. The cost is rather substantial.

Incentives are good but as mentioned, shouldn't be required. There should be sufficient staff to run the service. Pushing for incentives just encourages rest day working and keeps the TOC at the mercy of their staff.

At my TOC and I'm sure many, if not all, of the others. The Union is in constant communication. Deals and agreements are done off the table all the time. When is comes to more formal and permanent agreements (pay deals) that's when everything breaks down.

The rostering system is antiquated and not fit for purpose. Staffing levels are not fit for purpose. The culture of doing things on the cheap is not fit for purpose. The railway is broken. It needs overhauling in its entirety.

Completely agree! Unfortunately, the old timers don’t realise this and that’s where the “this is the way we’ve always done it” stems from. The whole railway is wrapped up in red tape and antiquated procedures that are not really fit for a modern day railway.

This particular can has been kicked down the road for 6 months, but after that there will undoubtedly be a sustained effort to introduce efficiency savings and that also coincides with the ending of the ‘ no compulsory redundancies’ policy.

It will be very telling how the next pay talks go with Transport Scotland next year.

 

[snookertam]

I thought yesterday that both sides would reach a deal. As others have said, interesting to see how things will go next year when this deal expires.

I expect at some stage the Scottish Government will try to break the unions, and be prepared to cause massive disruption to do it. Question is whether that would be achievable from their perspective.

 

[Rab Smith]

I thought yesterday that both sides would reach a deal. As others have said, interesting to see how things will go next year when this deal expires.

I expect at some stage the Scottish Government will try to break the unions, and be prepared to cause massive disruption to do it. Question is whether that would be achievable from their perspective.

Or they may just surprise everyone by actually working constructively with the Unions rather than constantly trying to wipe them out with red tape and draconian laws like the Tories do.

 

[Goldfish62]

Or they may just surprise everyone by actually working constructively with the Unions rather than constantly trying to wipe them out with red tape and draconian laws like the Tories do.

I would hope that is the case as well. It of course takes two to tango though.

 

[Falcon1200]

Sundays have been part of the working week on SWT/SWR for the best part of the past 20 years so it's clearly not the case that it would never be accepted by staff.

Interesting, how was that achieved ? ie were staff compensated for losing their Sunday overtime payment, or did they accept a reduction in take-home pay ?

 

[Deltic1961]

Still no catering on the Inter 7 services. Is that anything to do with the strike or a separate matter?

Surely can't be about Covid now?

 

[cf111]

Still no catering on the Inter 7 services. Is that anything to do with the strike or a separate matter?

Surely can't be about Covid now?

I think it's still Covid. There hasn't been catering on any of the Inverness-Kyle/Wick services I've been on recently.

 

[dk1]

I think it's still Covid. There hasn't been catering on any of the Inverness-Kyle/Wick services I've been on recently.

That's crazy. I wonder what the problem is.

 

[800001]

I think it's still Covid. There hasn't been catering on any of the Inverness-Kyle/Wick services I've been on recently.

I was on Kyle like middle September, catering on all trains I was on.

 

[John Bishop]

I was on Kyle like middle September, catering on all trains I was on.

Not this year it wasn’t!

 

[CEN60]

Not this year it wasn’t!

Was on a few services the 1st week of September - there was none on any of the services I was on.

 

[Scotrail314209]

So they can provide catering on some services, but not all? That doesn’t make sense to me.

Are the catering staff still on leave with full pay or have they been made redundant?

 

[John Bishop]

So they can provide catering on some services, but not all? That doesn’t make sense to me.

Are the catering staff still on leave with full pay or have they been made redundant?

The only services with catering at the moment are some WHL services. Most of the catering staff have moved into other roles with the company or left. There’s been no redundancies.

 

[cf111]

I was on Kyle like middle September, catering on all trains I was on.

I'm not doubting you but on three journeys from the end of August to the start of October there was no catering trolley. Not a huge sample size but I did have a decent wait at Inverness and didn't any trolleys going on to any other trains while I was there.

That's crazy. I wonder what the problem is.

It is a shame on long journeys as I do miss the cup of tea and a wee shortbread. Understandable for it to be withdrawn during the height of the pandemic but most (all?) TOCs with a catering offer are offering something close to the pre-covid catering, I think.

Maybe now the industrial action has been settled management might focus on other things. I'm just glad I don't have to use the bus next month .

 

[alf]

It will be very difficult now for the Union to come out of this without losing face, and probably losing members too. It will be interesting to see how they spin it.

This Bald Rick prediction seems very wrong now.

It is an outright RMT victory & a big Sturgeon climb down.

Does anybody know, & be prepared to say, what were the exact conditions attached which were finally removed on Tuesday allowing RMT guards to say yes?

 

[dk1]

It is a shame on long journeys as I do miss the cup of tea and a wee shortbread. Understandable for it to be withdrawn during the height of the pandemic but most (all?) TOCs with a catering offer are offering something close to the pre-covid catering, I think.

Yes all very odd how quickly some TOCs catering offer resumed compared to others. It most certainly is a highlight on journeys to hear the trolley on its way through & I usually purchase something & on longer trips several times.

 

[Deltic1961]

Given how most businesses are chasing revenue after covid, seems strange that Scotrail don't seem bothered. Or do the just expect the tax payer to fill the gaps ad infinitum?

 

[nanstallon]

That's crazy. I wonder what the problem is.

Just being British. Any excuse will do!

This Bald Rick prediction seems very wrong now.

It is an outright RMT victory & a big Sturgeon climb down.

Does anybody know, & be prepared to say, what were the exact conditions attached which were finally removed on Tuesday allowing RMT guards to say yes?

RMT always wins, but if the railway becomes unreliable and expensive, the victory may be short lived.

 

[Deltic1961]

What do you mean "becomes" unreliable?

Train home on Monday cancelled because the brakes locked on and the train in today late because who knows?

See what happens in 30 minutes going home....

 

[PaulMc7]

Just being British. Any excuse will do!

RMT always wins, but if the railway becomes unreliable and expensive, the victory may be short lived.

To be fair the train is already really expensive and unreliable at times. This week already we've had leaves and then rain cause major issues.

 

[Deltic1961]

Ha ha, Scotrail member of staff burned me out for asking if the train was actually going to run. Short memory obviously.