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Scotrail - Post Covid Consultation - Service Reductions

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D6130

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0858 from Tweedbank to Edinburgh quiet until Newcraighall where a surprising number got on
Is there not a sizeable park and ride car park at Newcraighall? We have friends in Port Seton and despite Prestonpans station being not much more than a mile away, they frequently drive to Newcraighall and take the Borders line train into Edinburgh.
 
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Scotrail314209

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Commuting to Ayr this morning, waiting at Kilwinning and seen two 6 and 7 car services in a row coming through for Glasgow, carting fresh air, when previously these would be rammed.

Even my 6 car from Saltcoats to Kilwinning was empty, and it’s usually rammed.

I think peak reduction might be the way to go if numbers don’t return during the peak times?
 

scotrail158713

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Is there not a sizeable park and ride car park at Newcraighall? We have friends in Port Seton and despite Prestonpans station being not much more than a mile away, they frequently drive to Newcraighall and take the Borders line train into Edinburgh.
Yep although I think that's been from when the service was 2tph vs 1tph on the North Berwick line so it's a more frequent service. The evening service is also more regular on the Borders line (North Berwick sees a 1.5 hr gap from 2143 to 2312). It's noticeably cheaper as well at £4.40 v £7.10 for an anytime return or £3.50 v £5.20 off-peak.
 

greyman42

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Train manager was an a*** - despite this being a Central to Waverley only and, therefore a wholly internal Scotland service, he loudly told us all that he disagreed with masks. If it's okay in England and Wales not to wear one then it should be okay in Scotland - didn't go down well at all.
I would applaud him for saying that.
 

eoff

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Yep although I think that's been from when the service was 2tph vs 1tph on the North Berwick line so it's a more frequent service. The evening service is also more regular on the Borders line (North Berwick sees a 1.5 hr gap from 2143 to 2312). It's noticeably cheaper as well at £4.40 v £7.10 for an anytime return or £3.50 v £5.20 off-peak.
Prestonpans is worse for commuters at the moment as the service around 0805 to Edinburgh is still not running.
 

Stopper

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On an extremely limited basis; Five Scotrail trains a day in one direction and four in the other.
Stirling still has an excellent service to Edinburgh regardless. They would have never got their fast service if it wasn’t for ScotRail running the unsustainable and effectively pointless Cumbernauld service. It’s just a shame ScotRail treated Stirling with this fast service only for it to be inevitably removed once the Cumbernauld service failed.
 

scotrail158713

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Prestonpans is worse for commuters at the moment as the service around 0805 to Edinburgh is still not running.
True. Still stuck with just the 0755 (0813 Prestonpans) service from North Berwick, or "sardine express" as it was dubbed by many. Although whilst undoubtedly inconvenient, with reduced commuter numbers that'll be less of an issue just now.
 

Jordan1296

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The whole peak thing needs to stop. No need for it. On the 17:25 Aberdeen to Inverness "peak" service today and the train was literally empty. Taking the eye off the ball or just gouging people?
I catch this particular service every Monday-Wednesday and, at no point, has it been "literally empty". Certainly the rear 170 has been full. Don't know what the 158 is like when it is a 5-carriage service, but it has never been empty.
 

Highlandspring

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I catch this particular service every Monday-Wednesday and, at no point, has it been "literally empty". Certainly the rear 170 has been full. Don't know what the 158 is like when it is a 5-carriage service, but it has never been empty.
Yes, that ties in with my observations of it as well. Local on the Inverurie - Aberdeen section in general is much improved over the last few months and the Aberdeen/Inverness services are well loaded too.
 

Jordan1296

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Yes, that ties in with my observations of it as well. Local on the Inverurie - Aberdeen section in general is much improved over the last few months and the Aberdeen/Inverness services are well loaded too.
Agreed. Suspect it is because people have realised they can get to Aberdeen from Inverurie and Kintore for less than the bus on double the frequency. Even Dyce has picked up (noticeably among the general public as opposed to the offshore workers) since lockdown has eased.
 

alangla

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The whole peak thing needs to stop. No need for it. On the 17:25 Aberdeen to Inverness "peak" service today and the train was literally empty. Taking the eye off the ball or just gouging people?
Interestingly, ScotRail are tweeting tonight that they’re introducing SOR and SVR tickets from Glasgow to Edinburgh because “You asked for it so we’ve delivered it” the SVR is £18.40 and has no evening peak restriction. As someone points out in reply, they’re going to see a big reduction in Glasgow to Eskbank ticket sales (first place you can buy a SVR to). Also 50p cheaper than the Eskbank ticket.


Still a lot pricier than Citylink if you’re not in a rush.
 

Falcon1200

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Stirling still has an excellent service to Edinburgh regardless. They would have never got their fast service if it wasn’t for ScotRail running the unsustainable and effectively pointless Cumbernauld service. It’s just a shame ScotRail treated Stirling with this fast service only for it to be inevitably removed once the Cumbernauld service failed.

For how long did the Cumbernauld service operate before Covid scuppered everything though, ie did it really have a chance to build up custom ?
 

Stopper

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For how long did the Cumbernauld service operate before Covid scuppered everything though, ie did it really have a chance to build up custom ?
It was never going to build up custom as Stepps, Gartcosh etc are not Edinburgh commuter markets, the train is too long anyway. And Cumbernauld passengers were better off using Croy. It was effectively a Falkirk/Polmont/Linlithgow to Edinburgh service without the Stirling link as they previously had. The train mainly carted around fresh air and was the first to be cancelled during any hint of disruption. So much so that it gained a reputation of being an absolutely useless train that nobody planned around using. It’s highly unlikely to ever return.
 

Falcon1200

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December 2018 so around 15 months of "normality" before covid came along

So much so that it gained a reputation of being an absolutely useless train that nobody planned around using. It’s highly unlikely to ever return.

Thanks for the info. Given that the service will still run from Queen St as far as Grahamston, I wonder if it might be better going to Stirling instead ?
 

Deltic1961

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Interestingly, ScotRail are tweeting tonight that they’re introducing SOR and SVR tickets from Glasgow to Edinburgh because “You asked for it so we’ve delivered it” the SVR is £18.40 and has no evening peak restriction. As someone points out in reply, they’re going to see a big reduction in Glasgow to Eskbank ticket sales (first place you can buy a SVR to). Also 50p cheaper than the Eskbank ticket.


Still a lot pricier than Citylink if you’re not in a rush.

This Twitter post has not gone well for Scotrail. Worth reading the comments and the amount of likes on them.
 

alangla

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This Twitter post has not gone well for Scotrail. Worth reading the comments and the amount of likes on them.
Priceless.
So, Alicante or Ibiza instead of a SOR to Edinburgh?

I suspect the people replying “nationalise it” are in for a shock once Abellio are gone, however.
 

Deltic1961

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Yeah, it's not comparible at all but the general concensus is that rail travel on the whole in Scotland is far too expensive and I have to agree.
 

eoff

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True. Still stuck with just the 0755 (0813 Prestonpans) service from North Berwick, or "sardine express" as it was dubbed by many. Although whilst undoubtedly inconvenient, with reduced commuter numbers that'll be less of an issue just now.
I know someone who gets this service every day and it is standing room only after Prestonpans. One of my considerations for going back to the office is for the ealier train to run again.
 

Bishopstone

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This Twitter post has not gone well for Scotrail. Worth reading the comments and the amount of likes on them.

Lots of comments along the lines of ‘poor value for a 45-minute journey‘. Perhaps if Scotrail ran to a maximum speed of 50mph so the journey lasted a full hour, people would feel they had obtained better value for money.
 

GALLANTON

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A return from Helensburgh to Airdrie is around the £8.00 mark and takes 1hr 20mins each way whilst IIRC a return from Queen Street to Edinburgh is around £15-16 mark and takes approx 45-50 minutes. Both journeys are more or less the same distance so why is the return to Edinburgh more expensive?
 

Kite159

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A return from Helensburgh to Airdrie is around the £8.00 mark and takes 1hr 20mins each way whilst IIRC a return from Queen Street to Edinburgh is around £15-16 mark and takes approx 45-50 minutes. Both journeys are more or less the same distance so why is the return to Edinburgh more expensive?

I dare say the demand for Glasgow - Edinburgh will be a lot greater than the demand for Helensburgh to Airdrie.
 

route101

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Why is there a evening peak restriction between Glasgow and Edinburgh but not local Glasgow routes?
 

alangla

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“Market pricing” for the price of the SDR ticket I’d assume (ie most people buying it will be on expenses and not care. I’ve certainly never bought one with my own money) and the evening peak restrictions are presumably because BR could get away with it but SPT wouldn’t allow it on services they funded. IIRC, you can travel from Queen Street HL to Croy in the evening peak on a CDR but not any further as you’d be leaving Strathclyde.
It just suited NatEx, First and Abellio to not do anything about it & hoover up the extra cash. The first off peak trains from QS HL in the evening used to be absolutely grim, not helped by them generally (in Turbostar days) being split down to 3 cars so units could go back to Eastfield.
 

Stopper

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Thanks for the info. Given that the service will still run from Queen St as far as Grahamston, I wonder if it might be better going to Stirling instead ?
As another poster said I think it is the only passenger service (definitely most Grangemouth freights use this also) that uses the southern side of the Carmuirs triangle. Despite custom being very light on this service between Cumbernauld and Grahamston, this was a service that existed beforehand so I’m assuming they are just reverting to that. I think Stirling has a decent amount of trains to Queen Street already.
 
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