Scotrail - Post Covid Consultation - Service Reductions

[diamond chap]

Does anyone have a link to the response form?

See posts earlier in the thread (e.g. #100).

 

[Class360/1]

Tweedbank to remain hourly? Are they kidding? The Tweedbank trains are full and standing throughout the day and especially on weekends.

And the line when it reopened was bespoke for a half hourly service. Over the years passengers were booming and the line had a problem with passengers standing.

sounds really silly they would do that.

 

[backontrack]

Timetable only shows ScotRail services - so LNER and XC services in these gaps?

Anyway still digesting the timetables and info - for most of the more rural routes it seems to be a holding pattern for now, however they would appear to imply that there will be no Sunday service for the North of Scotland as it says Sundays aren't included as there will be no change from current services - which is no service!

While this would upset those looking for the fastest end to end journey times on the Highland Main Line, there's a case to be made to strengthen public transport within the national parks and thus have every ScotRail service stop at ALL stations in the Cairngorms National Park.

North of Inverness there really needs to be an infrastructure investment project that can deliver sensible distribution of services for the inner Moray Firth rather than trains flighted all in one direction, sometimes 15mins apart only for there to be nothing the other direction for hours. Can't help but feel there must be a huge untapped modal shift potential here constrained by length of the single track to Muir of Ord.

Thankfully, the Lentran Loop is now in the GRIP3 planning stage. So it's a question of how long it'll be (hopefully they will opt for a dynamic loop of decent length).

The consultation does allude to Far North corridor enhancements (although it's disappointing that the late-night train to Tain has been dropped), so it looks like we may have progress on our hands, though I'll believe that when I see it. Next stage post-Lentran will be getting a shorter loop at Kinbrace sorted with a siding for timber extraction, and then we'll have a properly workable railway for the future, capable of catering to a diverse market of passengers.

Not that that negates how going 1tph to Tweedbank, 2tph to Ayr, Killie and Gourock, and 0tph Edinburgh-Kirkcaldy-Perth I'd absolute barmy.

 

[Falcon1200]

One thing apparent from the draft TT is that ambition or attempt to provide any form of express service between Edinburgh and Glasgow has been totally abandoned; The standard half-hourly trains, as well as Haymarket and Falkirk High, all call at Linlithgow/Polmont AND Croy - Under the four trains per hour TT these stops alternated. Even the additional peak hour trains, which omit those three stations, call at Lenzie and Bishopbriggs instead ! Scotrail have a nerve classifying this route under their Inter City group, it is now no more than a suburban service. And given the overall reduction in services pathing an express service would have been easier than before.

For Edinburgh-Inverness or even Edinburgh-Perth journeys it does seem a retrograde step, but then for Edinburgh-Stirling which is apparently the main traffic flow of these three destinations it's an improvement - so swings and roundabouts really.

Diverting the Edinburgh/Inverness services via Stirling only provides an extra five Edinburgh-Stirling and (strangely) four Stirling-Edinburgh services per day, whereas there are still the half-hourly EMUs between Stirling and Edinburgh, albeit with additional stops thanks to the curtailment of the Queen St/Cumbernauld/Edinburgh trains at Grahamston. And the Inverness trains seem to be only slightly, if at all, faster between Stirling and Edinburgh than the EMUs, despite the latter having multiple stops ! Wearing a cynical hat, it seems to me that diverting these services via Stirling has been done purely to allow the Perth/Edinburgh service to become an hourly all-stations Fife local stopper, killing two birds with one stone.

The decision to also slow the Edinburgh-Perth local service by running via Dunfermline does make the whole Edinburgh-Perth issue more acute, now neither route is anything even remotely fast.

I presume the re-routing of the Perth locals is a merger with a Fife Circle train and thus allowing the cut of one train service overall by merging the two?

Agree, Perth/Edinburgh well and truly loses out, both routes becoming slower than ever before.

 

[backontrack]

See posts earlier in the thread (e.g. #100).

Cheers. What a shabby and skewed survey.

 

[Jordan1296]

Does anyone have a link to the response form?

Click on whichever timetable you want to submit feedback on (InterCity, for example) and it’ll be at the bottom.

 

[ScotsRail]

Interestingly when filling in the survey there wasn't an option, at least for me, to say that you'd be back working full time in the office. Options around working from home all the time and blended working but nothing for people who would be back full time.

 

[backontrack]

My response to the form

Are you mad?

Pre-covid, the Tweedbank line had issues with overcrowding. I've used the service many times and it's been rammed full and standing. Yet you're proposing to halve the hourly frequency.

Scotrail can say what it likes about service efficiency - it's greenwash. With these changes, you are actively pushing people into their cars. It's truly shocking to see a rail company actively discouraging passengers from returning by preemptively reducing their service frequency. This doesn't respond to passenger flows; it dictates them. And this makes you complicity in the ongoing climate emergency.

Of course services will need to be reduced post-covid. However, attempting a complete timetable recast before rail demand has had a real opportunity to recover is simply moronic. We haven't had a chance to see how passenger flows change in a post-covid world, and how to adapt to them - this consultation is occurring far too soon to be particularly instructive. And surely, wouldn't the sensible thing to do would be to reduce the length of certain trains instead?

You said that these service reductions would be temporary and covid-enforced. Are you now going to put out a new press release that says "We were lying"?

This timetable recast doesn't give any real service benefits to anyone. You're trying to row back on service improvements you've already committed to. What a shoddy way to treat your passengers.

If you wanted to make the railway look as unappealing as possible to customers, then congratulations. But I implore you sincerely to rethink these changes.

 

[ld0595]

Interestingly when filling in the survey there wasn't an option, at least for me, to say that you'd be back working full time in the office. Options around working from home all the time and blended working but nothing for people who would be back full time.

I noticed that last night for me as well. Granted I'll never be back in the office full time but that's not the case for everyone. As I said upthread, it seems heavily skewed to suggest a certain outcome.

 

[kez19]

Interestingly when filling in the survey there wasn't an option, at least for me, to say that you'd be back working full time in the office. Options around working from home all the time and blended working but nothing for people who would be back full time.

I done it twice lol, first response was crap so done a longer one (regarding responses did questions change if you chose an option?). I chose leisure but noticed commute and another one or did they all lead to just that one if it was positive/negative/neither/unsure?

 

[eoff]

Somehow this question did not appear..

Do you agree that we should look into the future, guess that less people will travel by rail and hence reduce the number of services in order to be sure to maintain the overcrowding that you experienced pre-COVID.

 

[alex397]

The Scotrail website says 1st class is declassified on their trains to help with more capacity for social distancing. However, I’m currently on the 0929 Edinburgh-Aberdeen on a 4-car 125, and the first class carriage is taped off and doors locked.

 

[backontrack]

The Scotrail website says 1st class is declassified on their trains to help with more capacity for social distancing. However, I’m currently on the 0929 Edinburgh-Aberdeen on a 4-car 125, and the first class carriage is taped off and doors locked.

Oh dear, that train is 25% empty! How dreadfully inefficient. Don't worry, ScotRail will cut services so that it doesn't waste their resources.

 

[ainsworth74]

The Scotrail website says 1st class is declassified on their trains to help with more capacity for social distancing. However, I’m currently on the 0929 Edinburgh-Aberdeen on a 4-car 125, and the first class carriage is taped off and doors locked.

Indeed. I had the same on the 0700 Glasgow - Inverness and the 1102 Inverness - Aberdeen. 4-car HST on both with 1st class unavailable. Presumably the allusion to increased spacing for social distancing was entirely meant for staff and the message just didn't make that clear. Now I don't begrudge them that but an entire carriage seems faintly ridiculous...

 

[kez19]

The Scotrail website says 1st class is declassified on their trains to help with more capacity for social distancing. However, I’m currently on the 0929 Edinburgh-Aberdeen on a 4-car 125, and the first class carriage is taped off and doors locked.

Wouldn’t be the point of keeping social distance in place you keep first class open than close as additional capacity?

 

[snookertam]

It's difficult not to conclude from all of this that senior management at ScotRail have just given up trying. They're not even pretending to care any more.

Buzzwords like a 'customer focused' timetable don't really cut it when you've not asked any customers what they're likely to want or need.

 

[adrock1976]

Although more of an infrastructure question, is the proposal to run the Inverness - Edinburgh via Stirling rather than Kirkcaldy a means to get Perth station sorted out for future electrification even though there has been no mention of that (doing the Inverness side of Perth first before doing the Dundee side)?

Also, the Kirkcaldy - Perth journeys do not have a friendly connection at Markinch or Ladybank i.e. there is no limited stop Edinburgh - Haymarket - Inverkeithing - Kirkcaldy - Markinch - Ladybank - onwards to Dundee that would arrive at Markinch and Ladybank before the Perth via Dunfermline does.

I have done a quick check using the Railmiles engine, and the shortest route between Haymarket and Perth is via Kirkcaldy (55 and three quarters). Via Stirling is 68 and a quarter, which makes it 10 and a half miles longer.

Saw some comments on Twitter about this. The view there was that it hadn’t been proof read & there’s a typo in the Robroyston and Stepps entries. Bit of a kick in the teeth if you bought a new house near either station to commute to Edinburgh and the direct service has now evaporated. It took years to grow some of the traffic on A2B, looks like this route will never get the chance. I guess for those people it’ll be a drive up the M80 to Croy now.

I would hope that there would be quality connections at either Camelon or Falkirk Grahamston i.e. not a 27 or 57 minute interchange time for onward journeys.

 

[kylemore]

It's difficult not to conclude from all of this that senior management at ScotRail have just given up trying. They're not even pretending to care any more.

Buzzwords like a 'customer focused' timetable don't really cut it when you've not asked any customers what they're likely to want or need.

I think we can now safely say that Scotrail have officially joined Calmac/CMAL as a "mess"!

 

[Journeyman]

It's difficult not to conclude from all of this that senior management at ScotRail have just given up trying. They're not even pretending to care any more.

Buzzwords like a 'customer focused' timetable don't really cut it when you've not asked any customers what they're likely to want or need.

I agree. Social distancing is no longer mandated in law, but there’s no attempt to reinstate first class or catering in sight. It wouldn't surprise me if the buffet counters in the HSTs never get used again.

 

[ScotRail158725]

I have done a quick check using the Railmiles engine, and the shortest route between Haymarket and Perth is via Kirkcaldy (55 and three quarters). Via Stirling is 68 and a quarter, which makes it 10 and a half miles longer.

Via Stirling has much faster running speeds though. Between Dalmeny and Thornton Junction its a very slow line and north of there its mostly sort of 70/80mph area where as via Stirling is almost consitanly 100mph to Polmont then after Larbert Junction its mostly 80/90mph sort of speeds

 

[Carntyne]

Great to see an increase to 2100 services a day.

Ultimately bums on seats are the key - if significantly fewer people are traveling them the timetable must change. It isn't a train set and Transport Scotland have to justify the outlay, particularly given the current financial position.

 

[alangla]

I would hope that there would be quality connections at either Camelon or Falkirk Grahamston i.e. not a 27 or 57 minute interchange time for onward journeys.

You’d hope so, but given how flaky things seemed to be on this route before Covid, I suspect travellers doing the through journey may have to become familiar with the shops and pubs around Grahamston. Same with Anniesland, if that’s going to be 1TPH and first in the firing line whenever there’s a problem then it’ll be 1 train per some hours.

Great to see an increase to 2100 services a day.

Ultimately bums on seats are the key - if significantly fewer people are traveling them the timetable must change. It isn't a train set and Transport Scotland have to justify the outlay, particularly given the current financial position.

There’s no suggestion in any of this about right-sizing trains, e.g. running 3 vs 6 off peak. BR discovered 30 odd years ago that shorter, more frequent, trains can drive demand, ScotRail seem to have decided that rather than sort their staffing problems they’re going to run fewer, longer, trains, but bleat about empty seat miles.

 

[Carntyne]

You’d hope so, but given how flaky things seemed to be on this route before Covid, I suspect travellers doing the through journey may have to become familiar with the shops and pubs around Grahamston. Same with Anniesland, if that’s going to be 1TPH and first in the firing line whenever there’s a problem then it’ll be 1 train per some hours.


There’s no suggestion in any of this about right-sizing trains, e.g. running 3 vs 6 off peak. BR discovered 30 odd years ago that shorter, more frequent, trains can drive demand, ScotRail seem to have decided that rather than sort their staffing problems they’re going to run fewer, longer, trains

Performance has rocketed with the current timetable.

 

[GALLANTON]

It's difficult not to conclude from all of this that senior management at ScotRail have just given up trying. They're not even pretending to care any more.

Buzzwords like a 'customer focused' timetable don't really cut it when you've not asked any customers what they're likely to want or need.

Isn't that the whole point of a Consultation? To ask what people think/want?

 

[alangla]

It wouldn't surprise me if the buffet counters in the HSTs never get used again.

Bit rich stating in the consultation document that they want to reduce emissions when they’ve got 2 massive V16 engines dragging deliberately empty coaches round the country.
Personally, I’d love to see a calculation of how long it would take to pay back the investment in something like an 800 or 755 vs the extra fuel & maintenance costs of running the HST fleet, bearing in mind either of the bi-mode units could use the ever extending OHLE.

 

[snookertam]

Great to see an increase to 2100 services a day.

Ultimately bums on seats are the key - if significantly fewer people are traveling them the timetable must change. It isn't a train set and Transport Scotland have to justify the outlay, particularly given the current financial position.

I agree with this to a point. I'd hardly expect them to run entirely empty trains everywhere, but there has to be an acceptance that no matter what you do, there will be empty trains somewhere - there have to be return workings late at night or counter to peak flows for example. You also have to maintain a certain service level to make to worthwhile for people to use. Running an hourly service on the eastern half of the Cathcart Circle is basically asking to lose patronage for ever - who is going to waste their time on that?

If ScotRail had, similar to what they have done on many Central Scotland routes, sought to develop an alternative timetable - or had tried to develop a consistent all day service (remember we are told it is commuting that has fallen away yet schedules are still weighted towards the peaks) - then I'd believe that is what their intentions were.

I suspect there is some political game playing here - ScotRail are basically saying these service changes will save £40 million - so give us an extra £40 million Transport Scotland/Scottish Government.

 

[alangla]

Performance has rocketed with the current timetable.

It’s amazing how well the railway performs without inconveniences like passengers!

 

[snookertam]

Performance has rocketed with the current timetable.

Aye because there's no passengers when the country has been in lockdown! Run a railway that no one wants to use then yes, they will all run on time. No extended station dwells when there's hardly anyone boarding or alighting.

 

[geoffk]

Is the new TV advert "Let's get back on track" not being shown in Scotland?

I've not been to Scotland for a few years but it seems the only benefit from these changes is that Polmont and Linlithgow get their trains to Stirling back.

 

[Carntyne]

I suspect there is some political game playing here - ScotRail are basically saying these service changes will save £40 million - so give us an extra £40 million Transport Scotland/Scottish Government.

If you think this hasn't been signed off by Transport Scotland you're being very naive. They set the timetable.