Services between Manchester and Sheffield

[Killingworth]

This is an under cover route, both through the long tunnels and because the service has become unpredictable, particularly at weekends. That's ironic because weekend leisure use seems to be recovering very well and is up to pre-Covid levels on nice days.

After the Northern strikes 2 or 3 years ago traffic returned very quickly. Despite EMR not running west of Sheffield for some time passengers numbers have held up well, albeit crammed into packed Northern's 195 stoppers. Now we're contending with EMR short forms and industrial action at Northern and TPE. Weather and engineering work disrupt further.

Advance disruption notices appear frequently. However on Saturday 15th January EMR laid on buses from Chesterfield and Sheffield to Stockport citing engineering work. TPE and Northern were timetabled as normal. TPE were running a 2 hourly service and one of them got blocked near Scunthorpe. Consequently Northern had 3 of their hourly trains in a row going west where some passengers were unable to board at Sheffield, and only 1 got on at Dore to two of them in a row despite well over 40 waiting.

This coming weekend is another mystery to explain. No Northern stoppers east of Edale on Saturday or Sunday. Engineering work they say in answer to a tweet. TPE and EMR seem to be running the route as normal - as normally as anything ever gets on this route. The Pennine Wayfarer is even running out and back via the Hope Valley on Saturday; https://www.pathfindertours.co.uk/events/the-pennine-wayfarer/

What's going on this time? Shortage of available crews? Cut back to Edale so it probably needs only 2 2 car units rather than 3 at 3 cars for the full length? Possibly not. Another suggestion is point renewal at Sheffield. Anyway, it's 90 minutes by bus from Sheffield to Chinley instead of 40 by train. The bus timetable has yet to appear on page N23 of Northern's website.

The record of service on this line is dire. Hope Valley stations all consistently feature in the worst 500, often 250, in the country out of over 2,600 for punctuality. See On Time Trains based on Hathersage; https://www.ontimetrains.co.uk/stations/HSG

This before the blockades necessary for the forthcoming Hope Valley Capacity Scheme. It doesn't count trains removed from the timetable altogether. Not too encouraging to get travellers out of their cars.

 

[TheBigD]

Happy to be corrected but I think someone posted in another thread that the engineering work meant that trains from the south were routed in to Sheffield via Healey loop, which would reduce capacity considerably.

I'm sure that someone else will confirm or expand on it.

 

[Peterthegreat]

I believe there is engineering work at Sheffield station leading to reduced capacity.

 

[scrapy]

There is currently no industrial action on Northern. Whilst drivers have voted for strike action, no dates have been announced, and there's no certainty that action will go ahead. I don't think there has ever been any strike action actually go ahead by ASLEF drivers in the 18 years since the combined east/west Northern franchises started, despite several votes for action.

 

[Class 170101]

However potentially some weaknesses here
1. EMR not stopping at Edale etc to pick up passengers for Sheffield
2. Can NT not use Platform 7 or was that reserved for TPE who now seem to have disappeared from the timetable altogether?

 

[AlbertBeale]

Happy to be corrected but I think someone posted in another thread that the engineering work meant that trains from the south were routed in to Sheffield via Healey loop, which would reduce capacity considerably.

I'm sure that someone else will confirm or expand on it.

What/where is the Healey loop?

 

[Fokx]

What/where is the Healey loop?

Between Sheffield and Dore & Toltey station

It’s a passing loop for services to overtake one another westbound/Southbound from Sheffield

 

[eastwestdivide]

What/where is the Healey loop?

For the record, the spelling is Heeley if you’re searching for it on a map or elsewhere

 

[yorksrob]

If the route were a hospital or school, it would have been put in special measures by now.

 

[LowLevel]

Between Sheffield and Dore & Toltey station

It’s a passing loop for services to overtake one another westbound/Southbound from Sheffield

It's the Down Heeley Loop in question I believe, which is the line that you run in to from Dore outside Sheffield station to gain access to platforms 6, 7 and 8 (though access to the other platforms from it is available too - it is normally used to access the up side platforms). The Up Heeley Loop is the one heading out of Sheffield.

 

[SargeNpton]

The Sheffield-Manchester Northern services are running between Edale-Manchester Piccadilly. However, the replacement buses from Sheffield bypass Edale to connect with the train at Chinley - which I can only think is due to roads around Edale not being suitable for them. Passengers travelling between Sheffield and Edale have to travel via Chinley.

That TransPennine are not stopping additionally at Edale is probably because they do not normally stop there other than a nominal one train per day in each direction - either as the first or last train.

 

[Fokx]

That TransPennine are not stopping additionally at Edale is probably because they do not normally stop there other than a nominal one train per day in each direction - either as the first or last train.

It’s because Edale isn’t fitted with a C-ASDO beacon.

 

[Carlisle]

It’s because Edale isn’t fitted with a C-ASDO beacon.

Why’s that vital if they already stop one train each way per day.

 

[Watershed]

Why’s that vital if they already stop one train each way per day.

They don't. I think @SargeNpton may be conflating it with the EMR services (essentially the first and last trains of the day) that call at the intermediate halts.

 

[Carlisle]

Ok thanks for the info

 

[SargeNpton]

They don't. I think @SargeNpton may be conflating it with the EMR services (essentially the first and last trains of the day) that call at the intermediate halts.

Correct, I was getting TransPennine and East Midlands mixed-up.

 

[AlbertBeale]

Between Sheffield and Dore & Toltey station

It’s a passing loop for services to overtake one another westbound/Southbound from Sheffield

For the record, the spelling is Heeley if you’re searching for it on a map or elsewhere

Aha - thanks!

 

[unlevel42]

There is a temporary access to the track from the B&Q car park off Queen Road. The normal access from the Charlotte Road bridge is still in use but is a very tight turn on a blind bend over a hump.

 

[Greetlander]

Has anyone suggested reopening Woodhead yet? I'd hate to abandon tradition.

 

[Peterthegreat]

It is somewhat ironic that the booked capacity of all operators between Manchester and Sheffield is probably higher than it has ever been - 6 car TPE, 4 car EMR and 2-4 car Northern. It just never happens on the day!

 

[wellhouse]

Following landslips, with the ground still moving, Snake Pass (A57) is closed between Glossop and Ladybower.

Has this led to in increase in passengers on The Hope Valley line?

 

[snowball]

For the record, the spelling is Heeley if you’re searching for it on a map or elsewhere

And its MP was once Frank Hooley - election slogan "Hooley for Heeley".

 

[Killingworth]

Following landslips, with the ground still moving, Snake Pass (A57) is closed between Glossop and Ladybower.

Has this led to in increase in passengers on The Hope Valley line?

Very marginally perhaps, but for those to the north of Sheffield the A628 via Woodhead is a better route. For those of us to the south the Hope Valley and Winnats Pass or via Spartowpit to the A6 at Chapel-en-le-Frith are good options. The A57 Snake road is not that vital, and never has been since it was built.its too exposed and has always bee unstable.

 

[dk1]

Has anyone suggested reopening Woodhead yet? I'd hate to abandon tradition.

That just made me laugh. It’s bound to surface at some point.

 

[Killingworth]

That just made me laugh. It’s bound to surface at some point.

Surface? No, we need to go underground. New base tunnel from under Piccadilly in new interchange then below Glossop (Glossop Deep?) almost straight, no gradients to below Sheffield Midland. Journey time 20 minutes. Current line left for limestone and tourists.

If Boris wants to level up there's a project for him. Slightly more feasible than his tinnel to Northern Ireland. Back to planet earth with a congested and creaking Infrastructure from end to end.

 

[dk1]

Surface? No, we need to go underground. New base tunnel from under Piccadilly in new interchange then below Glossop (Glossop Deep?) almost straight, no gradients to below Sheffield Midland. Journey time 20 minutes. Current line left for limestone and tourists.

If Boris wants to level up there's a project for him. Slightly more feasible than his tinnel to Northern Ireland. Back to planet earth with a congested and creaking Infrastructure from end to end.

Surface

 

[MattRat]

I'm not surprised by the OP. The North East always gets the shortest end of the stick, closely followed by the North West.

 

[A0wen]

I'm not surprised by the OP. The North East always gets the shortest end of the stick, closely followed by the North West.

A nice headline but not one borne out by the facts.

The North East during the 80s and 90s got the Tyne and Wear metro for example.

The North West during the late 80s and 90s got the Manchester Metrolink and now suburban services towards Bolton, Preston and Liverpool are electric run. Liverpool is the only city where all the major cities have electric services to them.

Compare that with the West Midlands - Suburban services from Leamington and Stratford through Snow Hill and onto Kidderminster are still diesel run. The Chase Line has only been electrified in 2019. Midland Metro only opened in 1999 - and even now doesn't reach areas such as Birmingham Airport or Dudley.

So less of the 'woe is me' from the North - the West Mids probably has the best claim to being most neglected - it also has a higher population than most of the NW and definitely the NE and it is more economically productive than either.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

A nice headline but not one borne out by the facts.

Indeed.

The North West during the late 80s and 90s got the Manchester Metrolink

The Metrolink system didn't actually open until 1992 after the heavy rail lines it replaced had been closed for the best part of half a year and initially the only "new" trackwork on the network were essentially the street level sections connecting Manchester Victoria and Deansgate, then Manchester Piccadilly.

 

[Killingworth]

I'm not surprised by the OP. The North East always gets the shortest end of the stick, closely followed by the North West.

The Hope Valley line runs through Derbyshire and the East Midlands from Grindleford to New Mills. The East Midlands has certainly done badly compared with both the North -West and the North East. South, North and East Yorkshire (Humberside) lose out to West Yorkshire. It's easy to see perceived inequalities within the north