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Services with the most "train reverses here"

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nw1

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The Germans are slowly trying to eliminate their dead- end stations, but it’s a very long and expensive job.

Given that many of the big city stations are dead-end (I can think of Frankfurt, Stuttgart, Munich... there may be others) this would be a very big job. Questioning whether it's really worth it at the end of the day, as German terminal stations seem to be able to cope with large numbers of trains per hour as it is - but I don't know.
 
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The exile

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Given that many of the big city stations are dead-end (I can think of Frankfurt, Stuttgart, Munich... there may be others) this would be a very big job. Questioning whether it's really worth it at the end of the day, as German terminal stations seem to be able to cope with large numbers of trains per hour as it is - but I don't know.
All three (as well as Leipzig) already have S-Bahn tunnels for local traffic. Terminal stations at Heidelberg, Braunschweig and Kassel have been superseded since the war. Although running years late, the Stuttgart 21 project is now well under way, Hamburg Altima is up for replacement (assuming it’s still on) and plans have just been revealed for a through underground station for Frankfurt. Then there’s Berlin….
Doubt the through traffic element at Munich would make a “ mainline” tunnel worthwhile, but a second S-bahn tunnel is in the pipeline
 

MotCO

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What's the point of having services which reverse mid-way? Aren't such services inefficient because a reversing train blocks the line for a long time?

If you have a driver change as well, and the driver is already waiting for the train, how long would it take to key out at one end, and the new driver to key in etc at the other end? Would there be any longer delay than a normal driver change?
 

steamybrian

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All trains between Inverness and Wick reverse twice at Thurso and Georgemas Junction.
 

Watershed

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If you have a driver change as well, and the driver is already waiting for the train, how long would it take to key out at one end, and the new driver to key in etc at the other end? Would there be any longer delay than a normal driver change?
That's how the Tube works on the busier lines and at peak periods, with drivers stepping back a service at each end.

But on NR metals you probably wouldn't agree on a reversal allowance of much less than 3 minutes even if you did have step-back.
 

SouthernR

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The Lancaster - Morecambe - Heysham Port has to reverse at Morecambe, but in the previous timetable until 16 May there was a return Heysham Port - Morecambe - Carnforth - Lancaster service with 3 reversals. With the 2 services operating back to back, this necessitated 5 reversals in the space of an hour!
I assume the return train was used to provide a minimal direct service between Bare Lane and Carnforth. In the past, this has been provided by one train per day to Leeds, or by one (the last?) train to Barrow making a diversion to Morecambe.
 

_toommm_

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The old Manchester Piccadilly 'circulars' on the Glossop line in the evening peak reversed three times I believe: Glossop, Hadfield, and Glossop again.
 

norbitonflyer

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In most cases, stations where many services reverse have track layouts specifically designed to optimise reversal and the reversal takes very little longer than a rather leisurely stop.
An extreme example is the Ostbahnhof stop on Lines 3 and 7 of the Munich S-Bahn. These Lines reverse in the station, and to facilitate this there is a distance of left hand running (i.e opposite to normal for Germany) on the approach from the south, so they are the right way round for the tunnel section to the west which they share with other lines.
 

jopsuk

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What's the point of having services which reverse mid-way? Aren't such services inefficient because a reversing train blocks the line for a long time?
Eg, otherwise trains between Peterborough and Norwich would miss Ely, a useful interchange station- plus I'm not sure if the avoiding line allows passenger service both directions
 

audigex

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Norwich-Liverpool does twice, Ely & Sheffield.

Wasn't there a time where that service continued through to Great Yarmouth? I want to say during the Central Trains days, circa 2002-2003 maybe?

Which would mean it reversed at Ely, Sheffield, and Norwich

I was pretty young at the time so it's possible I'm misremembering, and it's also possible it wasn't a Liverpool service - certainly it travelled Manchester-Norwich via Sheffield, but I'm not 100% sure what it did on either end
 

40129

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I remember taking a day trip from Birmingham to Nottingham in the early-90s using a Cardiff - New Street - Derby - Nottingham service.

I'd noticed previously when using the Cross City line, that these trains often passed through Selly Oak around 10-15 minutes late and wondered if they ever arrived at Nottingham on time. The answer was "yes" since as I discovered on my day trip to Nottingham, the schedule included a 20 minute stop at Derby for the reversal.

Also, ISTR that reversals at Shrewsbury used to be allowed longer than strictly necessary (20 minutes instead of 3-5) in an attempt to prevent delays in the West Midlands screwing up the Cambrian lines and vice versa.
 

EbbwJunction1

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TFW Manchester to Milford Haven services reverse twice, at Swansea and Carmarthen.
In Fantasy Land, you could add three more reversions to that route without taking it too far out away from the original route (the reversions are all in bold):

Manchester - Chester - Crewe - Birmingham New Street - Bristol Temple Meads - Newport - Swansea - Carmarthen - Milford Haven.

Okay, I'll get my coat!
 

Western 52

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In Fantasy Land, you could add three more reversions to that route without taking it too far out away from the original route (the reversions are all in bold):

Manchester - Chester - Crewe - Birmingham New Street - Bristol Temple Meads - Newport - Swansea - Carmarthen - Milford Haven.

Okay, I'll get my coat!
Some interesting through journey opportunities there!
 

swt_passenger

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The SWR Waterloo to Wareham via the Yeovils and Weymouth mentioned earlier will become a footnote in history, as it’s been culled in the Dec 2022 consultation… Not cost effective, apparently.
 
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DorkingMain

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The SWR Waterloo to Wareham via the Yeovils and Weymouth mentioned earlier will b3come a footnote in history, as it’s been culled in the Dec 2022 consultation… Not cost effective, apparently.
One would have thought just running a Wareham - Corfe Castle shuttle would work much better (a bit like the Taunton shuttles the WSR has)
 

dk1

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Wasn't there a time where that service continued through to Great Yarmouth? I want to say during the Central Trains days, circa 2002-2003 maybe?

Which would mean it reversed at Ely, Sheffield, and Norwich

I was pretty young at the time so it's possible I'm misremembering, and it's also possible it wasn't a Liverpool service - certainly it travelled Manchester-Norwich via Sheffield, but I'm not 100% sure what it did on either end
There where also some that started Yarmouth & went via Stamford necessitating a change of ends at Norwich, Ely, Nottingham & Sheffield although driver changes tended to happen at Norwich & Nottingham. Some also started at Lowestoft & Sheringham in the 90s but these tended to be to/from Birmingham.
 

Ianno87

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The old Manchester Piccadilly 'circulars' on the Glossop line in the evening peak reversed three times I believe: Glossop, Hadfield, and Glossop again.

No, only twice: Piccadilly-Glossop-Hadfield-Piccadilly (or vice versa).

The daytime service operates Piccadilly-Glossop-Hadfield-Glossop-Piccadilly, but is a separate service either side of Hadfield.
 

JRT

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Eg, otherwise trains between Peterborough and Norwich would miss Ely, a useful interchange station- plus I'm not sure if the avoiding line allows passenger service both directions
In the 1980s Class 31-hauled trains via Peterborough to/from Norwich used the Ely avoiding loop. When the service went over to DMU-type operation, trains called at Ely with hardly any time penalty.
 

Falcon1200

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What's the point of having services which reverse mid-way? Aren't such services inefficient because a reversing train blocks the line for a long time?

Bradford Interchange is clearly not suitable for multi-line operation as there is a section with 2 tracks only, which limits the capacity.

At a terminus station such as Bradford Interchange, running through services reversing there is more efficient, as the train will usually occupy the platform for less time than one terminating and forming another service; A reversing service will certainly not take any longer. And as mentioned above, reversing trains at through stations such as Reading is the only way to serve them while maintaining through services.
 

JRT

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Some of Poland's “tourist routes” ran along part of traditional goods lines, necessitating reversals en route.

Kraków Główny – Kraków Płaszów (reverse) – Chabówka (reverse) – Zakopane

However, there is a new curve by-passing Kraków Płaszów now, so just one reversal at Rabka-Zdrój (just beyond Chabówka, so the train passes the latter twice).

Kraków Główny – Oświęcim (two reversals) additional train in the afternoon, no longer operates. It performed a zig-zag route but I can't remember the exact route. Shorter and slightly quicker than the “direct” route via Trzebinia.
 

amywok

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I assume the return train was used to provide a minimal direct service between Bare Lane and Carnforth. In the past, this has been provided by one train per day to Leeds, or by one (the last?) train to Barrow making a diversion to Morecambe.
Currently the Bare Lane/Hest Bank Curve trip is done by the 05.17 Lancaster to Morecambe which travels up the WCML to Carnforth for reversal and then to Bare Lane and Morecambe. Then back to Lancaster direct via Morecambe South Junction.

The only other trains I know of that run over the curve are the Sellafield to Heysham flask trains.

I'm not sure whether the passenger use of the curve is to retain route knowledge or if it's a Parliamentary obligation.
 

Watershed

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Currently the Bare Lane/Hest Bank Curve trip is done by the 05.17 Lancaster to Morecambe which travels up the WCML to Carnforth for reversal and then to Bare Lane and Morecambe. Then back to Lancaster direct via Morecambe South Junction.

The only other trains I know of that run over the curve are the Sellafield to Heysham flask trains.

I'm not sure whether the passenger use of the curve is to retain route knowledge or if it's a Parliamentary obligation.
Both, really.
 

SouthernR

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Currently the Bare Lane/Hest Bank Curve trip is done by the 05.17 Lancaster to Morecambe which travels up the WCML to Carnforth for reversal and then to Bare Lane and Morecambe. Then back to Lancaster direct via Morecambe South Junction.
So it does. The timetable leaflet doesn't show the Carnforth call.
 
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