Settlement of £115.50 for 'Failing to show a valid rail ticket' (due to expired railcard) - help please!

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pedr

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The discussion of mens rea is of limited relevance - most crimes can be committed recklessly and knowing that a railcard has limited validity but travelling without checking its expiry date is reckless so even if bylaw 18 wasn’t strict liability it wouldn’t require a prosecutor to prove that someone deliberately chose to buy a ticket they weren’t entitled to travel on. Similarly dishonesty is only relevant when the law specifically or implicitly includes that.
 
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MarlowDonkey

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The system would be more customer friendly if
(a) there was a warning when attempting to purchase a discounted ticket without a railcard valid for the dates of travel
(b) when the ticket had been purchased with a valid card, it was flagged so it was no longer necessary to produce the railcard whilst travelling.
 

nanstallon

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The system would be more customer friendly if
(a) there was a warning when attempting to purchase a discounted ticket without a railcard valid for the dates of travel
(b) when the ticket had been purchased with a valid card, it was flagged so it was no longer necessary to produce the railcard whilst travelling.
That would save a lot of grief. Excuse my lack of IT competence, but if a discounted ticket is purchased on line how does the customer show that he has a valid card, to make (b) possible?
 

MarlowDonkey

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That would save a lot of grief. Excuse my lack of IT competence, but if a discounted ticket is purchased on line how does the customer show that he has a valid card, to make (b) possible?
Print or display something on the ticket to show that evidence of a railcard had been supplied. It assumes ticket sellers have access to a database of valid railcards. Although there are numerous ticket selling sites there are only a limited number of ticket engines that supply and price the tickets.
 

RPI

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Print or display something on the ticket to show that evidence of a railcard had been supplied. It assumes ticket sellers have access to a database of valid railcards. Although there are numerous ticket selling sites there are only a limited number of ticket engines that supply and price the tickets.
But someone with a railcard could then buy a ticket for someone without a railcard...

The fact you have to physically input the railcard when purchasing should be the reminder necessary to check that your railcard is in date
 

Llanigraham

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The system would be more customer friendly if
(a) there was a warning when attempting to purchase a discounted ticket without a railcard valid for the dates of travel
(b) when the ticket had been purchased with a valid card, it was flagged so it was no longer necessary to produce the railcard whilst travelling.

How are you going to do either of those when not all Rail Cards are linked to any of the ticketing systems?
 

island

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The system would be more customer friendly if
(a) there was a warning when attempting to purchase a discounted ticket without a railcard valid for the dates of travel
(b) when the ticket had been purchased with a valid card, it was flagged so it was no longer necessary to produce the railcard whilst travelling.
In (b), the ticket could then be transferred to a non-Railcard holder and used without the possibility of detection.
 

6Gman

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At present, anyone can insist on going all the way to court; nobody is forced to accept a settlement. But if you go to court, and it is a strict liability offence, then IMHO it is unfair because absentmindedness is not dishonesty.

Perhaps someone who genuinely forgot to check the validity of his railcard could be given the opportunity of paying double the difference between full fare and the discounted fare already paid.
They are not being accused of dishonesty.

They held a ticket that was invalid.

To avoid it going to Court (where they would be found guilty) they have been offered a settlement.

Which, in my view, they would be wise to accept.
 

30907

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The system would be more customer friendly if
(a) there was a warning when attempting to purchase a discounted ticket without a railcard valid for the dates of travel
There is on every website and machine I've checked (not many!) but not all apps do this - my Northern one saves my West Yorks or Senior Discount and doesn't ask for confirmation.
 
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