Should restrictions be eased fully if Indian Variant case rates do not decline before June 21st?

[Bantamzen]

It is nothing to do with the vote though I wil admit to be pleasently surprised by the range of party support it achieved.. Those whom I see pontificating about their own personal opinions compared to the views of elected Members of Parliament who stood for election and were voted in by the electorate accordingly achieve naught but their own disquiet. "Armchair critics" is a phrase that has been used for very many years and is not one conjured up by me.

Before you know it, there will be more postings on this thread (if have not already been made) that will seem to reflect the views of a certain group headed by Wat Tyler and we all know what happened to him. The Peasants Rebellion in those days was engendered by the after effects of another pandemic.

By referring to peasants are you comparing them to the working class people most heavily affected economically through being furloughed, losing up to 20% (could be 30% from the 1st July) of their income, or losing their jobs completely? Asking for several million people.

The one thing that really has become obvious in all of this, a new divide in society has emerged. We now have those that aren't adversely affected, and those that they are prepared to throw under the bus to keep it that way. And it seems a highly successful vaccination programme, as well as world leading treatments are not enough to reverse this trend.

Not currently evident in opinion polling or political pressure, and constantly repeating the mantra will not make it true, however strongly you personally feel.

If by opinion polling you mean YouGov, I wouldn't hold too much stock in that.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

By referring to peasants are you comparing them to the working class people most heavily affected economically through being furloughed, losing up to 20% (could be 30% from the 1st July) of their income, or losing their jobs completely? Asking for several million people.

The one thing that really has become obvious in all of this, a new divide in society has emerged. We now have those that aren't adversely affected, and those that they are prepared to throw under the bus to keep it that way. And it seems a highly successful vaccination programme, as well as world leading treatments are not enough to reverse this trend.


If by opinion polling you mean YouGov, I wouldn't hold too much stock in that.

I thought you would have been knowledgeable enough to realise the century was in which Wat Tyler led what was at that time referred to as the Peasants Rebellion. It was sixty years ago when I learnt about that in English History lessons and the terminology to which you attempt to transfer to what you refer to "working class people" over 500 years later shows your lack of understanding of England in the early Middle Ages. That term you use seems that you are living in the past and seems only still current in the minds of "Corbyn et al".

 

[kristiang85]

I don't think so at all. All the experts I've listened to seem to think this is likely to become the 5th endemic human coronavirus. I see no evidence so far to suggest immunity does not work in a similar way to how it works with the existing four.

I agree. I've been of this opinion for a year now, and if you look historically at the introduction of the previous coronaviruses into society (there are graphs/historic models out there), they also had a big effect at first before settling down. Given they don't mutate as much as influenzas, it is perfectly reasonable to believe in our immune systems.

And if you look at the recent symptoms, it is getting ever more "cold" like.

If that happens and a resultant decline in usage results, with cars taking preference, there'll come a point where pressure to reverse this will be caused by backlogged roads, climate change pressures and maybe also even the vast array of disposable masks (and maybe reusable ones as well) entering the oceans. While I hope it won't take as long as this example, prohibition in the US didn't exactly last.

Given the vitriol against plastic bags and straws, masks must surely be on the pollution agenda (see below for an example picture). Hopefully more studies will come out soon on the long term effects of mask fibres in lungs and breathing in your own co2 on a long term basis versus the benefits, and they will be quietly dropped.

I certainly won't be complying if we are made to wear them on public transport long term.

 

[dave87016]

There are reports about a leaked Whitehall report that states the goverment are looking at ways for us to live with Covid in a “ new normal way” from July 19th this includes having to wear masks forever in certain settings , and more stringent restrictions in winter

If this is true then I’m sorry why did I bother getting 2 vaccine jabs - I got them to enable us to go back to the old normal which is what was promised to us , no mention of a “new normal” or having to wear face masks in certain settings forever

This is a complete farce , from July 19th ALL restrictions should be lifted and people should be able to move forward to normal as we was before Covid came about and should be able judge the risks and make their own choices when it comes to going about their old way of life

 

[35B]

Polls are unreliable if they were true then Jeremy Corbyn would be PM, there is little public pressure to continue restrictions.

There is also limited public pressure to relax them - which is more to the point.

A few people who feel very strongly about an issue, talking angrily about it to others who feel similarly is not a representative sample of public opinion.

 

[Bantamzen]

I thought you would have been knowledgeable enough to realise the century was in which Wat Tyler led what was at that time referred to as the Peasants Rebellion. It was sixty years ago when I learnt about that in English History lessons and the terminology to which you attempt to transfer to what you refer to "working class people" over 500 years later shows your lack of understanding of England in the early Middle Ages. That term you use seems that you are living in the past and seems only still current in the minds of "Corbyn et al".

Sorry, I wasn't asking for a history lesson. I was asking if you thought speaking up for those people actually affected by restrictions was comparable with those historical events? It seems that some people here object to any dissent towards ongoing restrictions on the basis that because they are not in power they should keep quiet and obey their more "knowledgeable" masters. Obviously I don't agree.

 

[35B]

you could say the same for these politicians with the forever moving goalposts, keep repeating themselves it will soon buckle due to public pressure.

Oddly enough I didn’t see any MPs before election chapping doors for opinion due to the COVID excuse, I wonder had they come round they would understand how the public feel or are they just happy living in their own fantasies?

As for polls etc, I have never been approached for any so how can any polling be true or a reflection of life?

I’m still confused as to who is really controlling this as it seems to be more of a media control/SAGE, you may ask why I say this? Well it seems anytime “freedom” approaches the media get whipped into a frenzy over variants (yet variants have been with us for donkeys), media speak to a la SAGE for prediction(s), then the government(s) bail out and obey them?

I thought it was Government responsibility and our own choice (regardless), but it seems there is a stranglehold going on by the media especially to keep this going, would the media being doing this had it been for something like Cancer or mental health issues I think not but COVID is priority regardless and everything else is thrown to the gutter, this isn’t living whatever way you look at it.

So then we must ask the question then, when does it end or if you want look at it from a different perspective how will it end? People need to look at this more than what is being said by our media politicians etc and questioning it more, if people don’t then really what happens next?

I haven't been approached recently for an opinion poll either - not within the last 15 years. But I suggest actually looking at how polling is done, and in particular the way that it allows - within margins of error - conclusions to be drawn from relatively small samples that hold true for the population at large.

As for who "controls" this, the point is that no one does. There is a lot happening, and many opinions, meaning that media - which is a collective noun for a lot of individuals who have their own views and biases - will lock on the versions that seem most interesting, and most fit with their own biases. Which is why (taking two examples) the Telegraph will tend to report in a way that downplays the severity of Covid and the need for restrictions, and the Guardian will report in a way that maximises the role of public officials and their wisdom.

 

[quantinghome]

There are reports about a leaked Whitehall report that states the goverment are looking at ways for us to live with Covid in a “ new normal way” from July 19th this includes having to wear masks forever in certain settings , and more stringent restrictions in winter

If this is true then I’m sorry why did I bother getting 2 vaccine jabs - I got them to enable us to go back to the old normal which is what was promised to us , no mention of a “new normal” or having to wear face masks in certain settings forever

This is a complete farce , from July 19th ALL restrictions should be lifted and people should be able to move forward to normal as we was before Covid came about and should be able judge the risks and make their own choices when it comes to going about their old way of life

Who knows whether this will happen or not, but compared to the sort of restrictions we've had to put up with over the last 15 months (stay at home, don't travel, don't meet friends and family, schools shut, shops shut) surely light touch measures like masks are a pretty minor inconvenience.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Sorry, I wasn't asking for a history lesson. I was asking if you thought speaking up for those people actually affected by restrictions was comparable with those historical events? It seems that some people here object to any dissent towards ongoing restrictions on the basis that because they are not in power they should keep quiet and obey their more "knowledgeable" masters. Obviously I don't agree.

This is a democracy in which people are free to express their opinions. It is when one side decides the other side are wrong and vehementally decry the held views of the other side that leads to a situation where matters take a decidedly dramatic turn for the worse.

To refer back to an earlier point that you made, you appear not to have either seen nor understood the part of my posting that stated the Peasants Rebellion came after the affects of a pandemic that was circulating Europe in that century....The Black Death.

 

[Purple Orange]

There are reports about a leaked Whitehall report that states the goverment are looking at ways for us to live with Covid in a “ new normal way” from July 19th this includes having to wear masks forever in certain settings , and more stringent restrictions in winter

If this is true then I’m sorry why did I bother getting 2 vaccine jabs - I got them to enable us to go back to the old normal which is what was promised to us , no mention of a “new normal” or having to wear face masks in certain settings forever

This is a complete farce , from July 19th ALL restrictions should be lifted and people should be able to move forward to normal as we was before Covid came about and should be able judge the risks and make their own choices when it comes to going about their old way of life

Surely you also got two jabs to protect yourself as well? That topic you mention about the government looking how we live with Covid was being discussed last night on the radio, in terms of living with covid like we live with the flu. I.e. regular booster shots available each year, but on the whole we are not inconvenienced by the flu as a society overall.

 

[Class 33]

There are reports about a leaked Whitehall report that states the goverment are looking at ways for us to live with Covid in a “ new normal way” from July 19th this includes having to wear masks forever in certain settings , and more stringent restrictions in winter

If this is true then I’m sorry why did I bother getting 2 vaccine jabs - I got them to enable us to go back to the old normal which is what was promised to us , no mention of a “new normal” or having to wear face masks in certain settings forever

This is a complete farce , from July 19th ALL restrictions should be lifted and people should be able to move forward to normal as we was before Covid came about and should be able judge the risks and make their own choices when it comes to going about their old way of life

There are a number of conflicting reports about the future of face masks. As you say there was that one yesterday about a leaked Whitehall report that says we'll have to wear them forever in certain settings. Another saying that face masks rules will be completely scrapped on 19th July. Another saying that face mask rules on public transport will be scrapped on 19th July, but we'll still have to wear them in shops and other settings. Another saying that we'll only have to wear them on public transport for journeys of more than 15 minutes! It's all very conflicting information and very confusing as to what will happen.

But you're right in that these vaccines as well as stopping people getting severely ill if they catch Coronavirus, we were promised that they would be our way out of all these restrictions and back to a normal life. If some of these nonsense restrictions are still going to remain for some time yet or even forever, then this is just absolutely unacceptable. We are being taken for fools. The country needs to rise up against this and tell the government we've absolutely had enough of this nonsense now, get rid of all these bloody restrictions! We were told it would be 21st June and now that's been pushed back until 19th July for ridiculous misleading reasons. Come 19th July this has got to be it, ALL these restrictions really need to go for good.

 

[ainsworth74]

Polls are unreliable if they were true then Jeremy Corbyn would be PM, there is little public pressure to continue restrictions.

Twitter is unreliable as if it was true then indeed Corbyn and the Corbynistas would be in charge. But the actual polls were very clear that he was not likely to win the 2019 General Election:


(Chart showing polling from June 2017 through to election day 2019 which clearly indicates that whilst Labour had a modest lead from around April 2019 to June 2019 thereafter the Tories had a clear lead from there through to election day)

(Thick lines is the moving average based on the last 15 polls and colours correspond to usual party colours)

Source

If people click through to the link they'll also find seat predictions in the weeks leading up to the polling day just below the above chart as well as the exit poll all of which predicated, varying sizes of, Tory majority. Perhaps the only surprising thing about the election in hindsight is that it was a surprise that the Tories got such a large majority! The Polls had been saying, for a while, that they were going to win and comfortably to!

It has become popular sport to say words to the effect that "Oh you can't trust polls there always unreliable!" but I'm not certain that that's particularly true. There have definitely been some clangers in recent years but I'm not sure it's sensible nor wise to just immediately assume that any poll, at least by one of the larger/more established pollsters, isn't worth the paper it's written on. Especially if you're dismissing it in part because it's telling you something you don't want to hear. Such as that extending the restrictions to July is not massively unpopular and indeed might have a small majority in favour...

 

[NorthKent1989]

There is also limited public pressure to relax them - which is more to the point.

A few people who feel very strongly about an issue, talking angrily about it to others who feel similarly is not a representative sample of public opinion.

There have been marches in various cities, it’s more than “just a few people” the has been growing backlash against lockdown that the media isn’t truly reporting on, the likes of Andrew Lloyd Weber saying he’ll open up his performances and doesn’t care if he’ll be arrested hasn’t exactly received much backlash either, in fact he’s gotten support, the reason why most are mistaken in thinking there’s no backlash is because the BBC report that only 300 people were at the anti lockdown march when that number was actually well over a million

 

[Purple Orange]

Twitter is unreliable as if it was true then indeed Corbyn and the Corbynistas would be in charge. But the actual polls were very clear that he was not likely to win the 2019 General Election:

View attachment 98289
(Chart showing polling from June 2017 through to election day 2019 which clearly indicates that whilst Labour had a modest lead from around April 2019 to June 2019 thereafter the Tories had a clear lead from there through to election day)

(Thick lines is the moving average based on the last 15 polls and colours correspond to usual party colours)

Source

If people click through to the link they'll also find seat predictions in the weeks leading up to the polling day just below the above chart as well as the exit poll all of which predicated, varying sizes of, Tory majority. Perhaps the only surprising thing about the election in hindsight is that it was a surprise that the Tories got such a large majority! The Polls had been saying, for a while, that they were going to win and comfortably to!

It has become popular sport to say words to the effect that "Oh you can't trust polls there always unreliable!" but I'm not certain that that's particularly true. There have definitely been some clangers in recent years but I'm not sure it's sensible nor wise to just immediately assume that any poll, at least by one of the larger/more established pollsters, isn't worth the paper it's written on. Especially if you're dismissing it in part because it's telling you something you don't want to hear. Such as that extending the restrictions to July is not massively unpopular and indeed might have a small majority in favour...

Indeed. A telling factor will be how the polls change following the announcement to delay. There have not been any polls published yet that I can find that purely look at the period following the announcement, but if the polls are broadly correct (which I believe they do give us a relatively decent bellwether of public opinion), and the public by and large are unhappy with the announcement, we should see a negative impact on Tory ratings, when the polls start coming out.

 

[Bantamzen]

This is a democracy in which people are free to express their opinions. It is when one side decides the other side are wrong and vehementally decry the held views of the other side that leads to a situation where matters take a decidedly dramatic turn for the worse.

To refer back to an earlier point that you made, you appear not to have either seen nor understood the part of my posting that stated the Peasants Rebellion came after the affects of a pandemic that was circulating Europe in that century....The Black Death.

So you feel it wrong to decry actions that have led to over a million jobs losses, millions more left with a 20% income reduction, vastly reduced tax revenue which will invariably lead to cuts in public sector services, and leaving a nation so afraid they jump at the sight of their own shadows? Again, asking for several million people. If our policy makers cannot make decisions that help those most at need find a way out of the pending economic crisis, then we have every right to lobby for them to go. And make no mistake, the cost of the decisions of the last 18 months haven't even been begun to be felt.

(BTW I'm going to ignore the black death reference, as it is men made of straw)

 

[yorkie]

Indeed there have, and if restrictions don't get lifted soon, I will be on the streets and I know numerous others who will too.

Indeed. A telling factor will be how the polls change following the announcement to delay. There have not been any polls published yet that I can find that purely look at the period following the announcement, but if the polls are broadly correct (which I believe they do give us a relatively decent bellwether of public opinion), and the public by and large are unhappy with the announcement, we should see a negative impact on Tory ratings, when the polls start coming out.

But their closest rivals (at least in England where I am) are Labour, who are even more pro-restriction!

Given how keen Labour are to restrict us, I have pretty much ruled out voting for Labour indefinitely. (In theory I should be a Green voter, but I've also ruled out voting for them, but the reasons for that are off topic for this thread, so I won't go there )

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

There are a number of conflicting reports about the future of face masks. As you say there was that one yesterday about a leaked Whitehall report that says we'll have to wear them forever in certain settings. Another saying that face masks rules will be completely scrapped on 19th July. Another saying that face mask rules on public transport will be scrapped on 19th July, but we'll still have to wear them in shops and other settings. Another saying that we'll only have to wear them on public transport for journeys of more than 15 minutes! It's all very conflicting information and very confusing as to what will happen.

The people at the front line during this virus pandemic who wear face protection items are those hospital staff involved. Has anything been forthcoming from their medical and surgical bodies concerning the future wearing of such face protection.

 

[Class 33]

Good little article from The Sun here, which I and millions others will agree with.

July 19 must be the final whistle — not the launch of ruinous new restrictions

Real freedom BORIS Johnson must bin Whitehall’s bleak vision for our future. Britain won’t wear it. We were told our miraculous vaccines were the route to freedom. We didn’t expect that to mean man…

www.thesun.co.uk

THE SUN SAYS

July 19 must be the final whistle — not the launch of ruinous new restrictions​

• The Sun
• 22:42, 16 Jun 2021
• Updated: 22:42, 16 Jun 2021

Real freedom​

BORIS Johnson must bin Whitehall’s bleak vision for our future. Britain won’t wear it.
We were told our miraculous vaccines were the route to freedom. We didn’t expect that to mean mandatory masks in some places, as officials recommend.

Read our coronavirus live blog for the latest updates


Boris Johnson must bin Whitehall’s bleak vision for our future Credit: AFP


July 19 must be the final whistle — not the launch of ruinous new restrictionsCredit: Getty
Or staff working from home for good, when our economy and productivity badly need them to return to the office.
Or isolation for anyone with a cough or sniffle — and quarantine for travellers, wrecking our holidays, airlines and tourism. Or even tougher curbs in winter.
Why give weight to these suggestions? So much public health advice has been wrong.




This same report says the “Covid safe” plastic screens which pubs, restaurants and shops were urged to install SPREAD the virus by stifling airflow.


And Whitehall now seems gripped by panic. Yet deaths remained low yesterday, at nine. Covid patients still occupy just one per cent of NHS beds.
Those are the crucial figures. If they continue as they are, then as Oxford jab scientist Sir Andrew Pollard rightly says: “The public health crisis is over.”

July 19 must be the final whistle — not the launch of ruinous new restrictions.

 

[35B]

There have been marches in various cities, it’s more than “just a few people” the has been growing backlash against lockdown that the media isn’t truly reporting on, the likes of Andrew Lloyd Weber saying he’ll open up his performances and doesn’t care if he’ll be arrested hasn’t exactly received much backlash either, in fact he’s gotten support, the reason why most are mistaken in thinking there’s no backlash is because the BBC report that only 300 people were at the anti lockdown march when that number was actually well over a million

Yes there have been some marches, and the numbers on them have not been huge - even the ones that have been big enough to get press. The claims of a million are just hyperbole, and the claims of a backlash are just that - claims. I'm with @ainsworth74 on this - that the polls don't say what you want doesn't make them wrong, nor does it undermine the conclusions drawn from them.

I observe that it took Farage and his mates over a decade of single issue campaigning, together with some very particular political alignments, to get Brexit from an issue that focussed a few very intensely, and didn't feature on the public's top 10 list of political issues, to being the issue of the day. That's not to open up a discussion about Brexit, but to emphasise the distance between those very focussed on a particular issue, and the wider population.

The reaction to Lloyd-Webber is interesting, and does show that opinion is not binary - as does the government's willingness to use his show as a "test event" as a way round the restrictions.

 

[Purple Orange]

Indeed there have, and if restrictions don't get lifted soon, I will be on the streets and I know numerous others who will too.

But their closest rivals (at least in England where I am) are Labour, who are even more pro-restriction!

Given how keen Labour are to restrict us, I have pretty much ruled out voting for Labour indefinitely. (In theory I should be a Green voter, but I've also ruled out voting for them, but the reasons for that are off topic for this thread, so I won't go there )

It doesn’t mean that Labour would gain the vote of someone who was to decide that they will no longer support the Tories. I see it differently to you on the Labour issue, because they were asking for decisions to be acted upon faster, whereas Johnson has delayed and dithered constantly. Only Sunak can claim to have been able to have acted fast with regards to introducing Furlough. The point about making decisions faster, even a week or two earlier, is that the level of infections and deaths in each of the waves may not have been as high as they were.

Would the Tories ever get my vote? No chance. The pandemic was always going to bring deaths to many families, but the poor leadership by our government has meant that many more people have died than there otherwise could have been.

 

[initiation]

The people at the front line during this virus pandemic who wear face protection items are those hospital staff involved. Has anything been forthcoming from their medical and surgical bodies concerning the future wearing of such face protection.

Whether doctors should wear masks while performing surgery or treating sick patients is not really relevant to whether people should wear (and stuff into their pocket for later re-use) a face covering while in a shop, mostly empty church, or when standing up for 2 minutes to go to the toilet in a pub they've sat in for the last hour.

It is when one side decides the other side are wrong and vehementally decry the held views of the other side that leads to a situation where matters take a decidedly dramatic turn for the worse.

A reminder this applies to both sides. Including those who say others apparently only care about money not deaths, or that the NHS does not have a duty to treat those who decline the vaccine.

 

[35B]

There are a number of conflicting reports about the future of face masks. As you say there was that one yesterday about a leaked Whitehall report that says we'll have to wear them forever in certain settings. Another saying that face masks rules will be completely scrapped on 19th July. Another saying that face mask rules on public transport will be scrapped on 19th July, but we'll still have to wear them in shops and other settings. Another saying that we'll only have to wear them on public transport for journeys of more than 15 minutes! It's all very conflicting information and very confusing as to what will happen.

But you're right in that these vaccines as well as stopping people getting severely ill if they catch Coronavirus, we were promised that they would be our way out of all these restrictions and back to a normal life. If some of these nonsense restrictions are still going to remain for some time yet or even forever, then this is just absolutely unacceptable. We are being taken for fools. The country needs to rise up against this and tell the government we've absolutely had enough of this nonsense now, get rid of all these bloody restrictions! We were told it would be 21st June and now that's been pushed back until 19th July for ridiculous misleading reasons. Come 19th July this has got to be it, ALL these restrictions really need to go for good.

There are conflicting reports, because there are conflicting opinions about what is or isn't necessary or appropriate. Those opinions are being debated, and it's not surprising that some of them leach into the press. It's a complicated world, and the press reflects that complexity. And, for completeness, I also firmly believe that all of those, including those I don't agree with, are acting in good faith and trying to deal with the pandemic and it's consequences - not using it somehow.

Personally, my view is that once restrictions are relaxed, and people re-adapt to living in a less restricted environment, we will find things like social distancing and mask wearing fade away. Not because people are angry about them and refuse to obey, but because people start to feel that life will continue without them.

 

[kez19]

I haven't been approached recently for an opinion poll either - not within the last 15 years. But I suggest actually looking at how polling is done, and in particular the way that it allows - within margins of error - conclusions to be drawn from relatively small samples that hold true for the population at large.

As for who "controls" this, the point is that no one does. There is a lot happening, and many opinions, meaning that media - which is a collective noun for a lot of individuals who have their own views and biases - will lock on the versions that seem most interesting, and most fit with their own biases. Which is why (taking two examples) the Telegraph will tend to report in a way that downplays the severity of Covid and the need for restrictions, and the Guardian will report in a way that maximises the role of public officials and their wisdom.

No one controls this? Seems to me then it’s pretty much full blown media scaremongering regardless, but still though I doubt media are affected by this compared to you or I are going through but yes let’s take polls for face value and all that.

Just like politicians the media are showing their true colours and that they are liars, whilst I get people have a go at The Sun for what they done in the past, but it seems to me the media are working together more collectively ie fear, I still have asked where are the positive stories out of this and there is no answer, so why should I care what media or polls say?

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Whether doctors should wear masks while performing surgery or treating sick patients is not really relevant to whether people should wear (and stuff into their pocket for later re-use) a face covering while in a shop, mostly empty church, or when standing up for 2 minutes to go to the toilet in a pub they've sat in for the last hour.


A reminder this applies to both sides. Including those who say others apparently only care about money not deaths, or that the NHS does not have a duty to treat those who decline the vaccine.

Why only mention doctors? A visit to your local hospital will reveal nursing staff, pathology department staff, x-ray staff, hospital porters as well as ambulance paramedics. Those people are far more relevant as they perform their tasks than any other examples you care to quote.

 

[Domh245]

Who knows whether this will happen or not, but compared to the sort of restrictions we've had to put up with over the last 15 months (stay at home, don't travel, don't meet friends and family, schools shut, shops shut) surely light touch measures like masks are a pretty minor inconvenience.

They're a relatively minor inconvenience compared to some other stuff, but I have zero intention of living with a "minor inconvenience" in perpetuity. That "it could be worse" is not an acceptable reason to retain restrictions

If nothing else, it's an unwelcome reminder that everything isn't normal, forcing people to adapt behaviours. I'm quite keen to put the whole thing behind us as soon as possible, and keeping masks and other 'obvious' restrictions just drags it out

 

[duncanp]

There are a number of conflicting reports about the future of face masks. As you say there was that one yesterday about a leaked Whitehall report that says we'll have to wear them forever in certain settings. Another saying that face masks rules will be completely scrapped on 19th July. Another saying that face mask rules on public transport will be scrapped on 19th July, but we'll still have to wear them in shops and other settings. Another saying that we'll only have to wear them on public transport for journeys of more than 15 minutes! It's all very conflicting information and very confusing as to what will happen.

All these leaked reports about the future of face masks have been put out there to what the public reaction is.

In particular, I don't think the one about wearing them on public transport for journeys of more than 15 minutes is going to see the light of day. How would that be enforced? At any given point in a journey, you would have people not wearing a mask because they are only going a couple of stops, and people wearing a mask because they are going all the way to the terminus.


I suspect that any mask rules after 19th July will be advisory, rather than mandatory. Although that creates problems because no doubt the tin pot little Hitlers in some settings will confuse guidance with the law, and try to bully or shame people into wearing them unecessarily.

As for more stringent restrictions in winter, I don't know what the government has in mind.

Again I think there may be guidance to reduce unecessary journeys and reduce household mixing, rather than mandatory closures of pubs, nightclubs and swimming pools etc.

By this time, as things currently stand, the furlough scheme will have ended, and enforced closure of businesses will lead to mass redundancies, not to mention an explosion of people with mental health issues and an increase in suicides.

Once people have a taste of "freedom" (whatever that means, and it will mean different things to different people) they will be reluctant to give it up.

 

[yorksrob]

They're a relatively minor inconvenience compared to some other stuff, but I have zero intention of living with a "minor inconvenience" in perpetuity. That "it could be worse" is not an acceptable reason to retain restrictions

If nothing else, it's an unwelcome reminder that everything isn't normal, forcing people to adapt behaviours. I'm quite keen to put the whole thing behind us as soon as possible, and keeping masks and other 'obvious' restrictions just drags it out

Agree 100 %.

Masks on public transport etc are indeed one of the less intrusive measures, and I'm inclined to give the Gmt a bit more leeway in keeping them a bit longer if they conider it useful.

However, I have zero tolerance for such a measure becoming a permanent fixture, and if it is legislated for after the adult population has been vaccinated, I will actively disobey/subvert it.

All these leaked reports about the future of face masks have been put out there to what the public reaction is.

In particular, I don't think the one about wearing them on public transport for journeys of more than 15 minutes is going to see the light of day. How would that be enforced? At any given point in a journey, you would have people not wearing a mask because they are only going a couple of stops, and people wearing a mask because they are going all the way to the terminus.


I suspect that any mask rules after 19th July will be advisory, rather than mandatory. Although that creates problems because no doubt the tin pot little Hitlers in some settings will confuse guidance with the law, and try to bully or shame people into wearing them unecessarily.

As for more stringent restrictions in winter, I don't know what the government has in mind.

Again I think there may be guidance to reduce unecessary journeys and reduce household mixing, rather than mandatory closures of pubs, nightclubs and swimming pools etc.

By this time, as things currently stand, the furlough scheme will have ended, and enforced closure of businesses will lead to mass redundancies, not to mention an explosion of people with mental health issues and an increase in suicides.

Once people have a taste of "freedom" (whatever that means, and it will mean different things to different people) they will be reluctant to give it up.

There's a lot of truth in this.

I was reading a article on mandated restrictions across the USA and it made the point that while some made more of a difference than others at the height of the outbreak, many of them became less effective later on as opinion became polarised and large proportions of the population refused to comply.

SAGE etc ought to be grateful that compliance has remained as high as it has for so long in this country to cover broadly the pre-vaccination period. I suspect that they won't have the writ to enduce mass-compliance afterwards.

 

[quantinghome]

We need to distinguish between measures that are 'light touch' (such as masks) and genuine restrictions (certain parts of the economy still closed, limitations on travel etc.). Appreciate there's a variety of opinion but for me mask wearing is not a restriction; I can still go about my day without hindrance.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

There are reports about a leaked Whitehall report that states the goverment are looking at ways for us to live with Covid in a “ new normal way” from July 19th this includes having to wear masks forever in certain settings , and more stringent restrictions in winter

If this is true then I’m sorry why did I bother getting 2 vaccine jabs - I got them to enable us to go back to the old normal which is what was promised to us , no mention of a “new normal” or having to wear face masks in certain settings forever

This is a complete farce , from July 19th ALL restrictions should be lifted and people should be able to move forward to normal as we was before Covid came about and should be able judge the risks and make their own choices when it comes to going about their old way of life

Indeed but this is another example of having to ensure Boris can be seen as our saviour all the time. This now suggests he was up for 21st June but has acceded to a delay but it has to end on the 19th July and mad boffins have told him then you need to leave these restrictions in force to enable that. It would far better to promote the use of masks when people have a respiratory illness and identify settings that people may wish to consider wearing them anything less is unenforcable.

 

[initiation]

Why only mention doctors? A visit to your local hospital will reveal nursing staff, pathology department staff, x-ray staff, hospital porters as well as ambulance paramedics. Those people are far more relevant as they perform their tasks than any other examples you care to quote.

I am not sure I would call those examples at all applicable to wearing of face coverings in the community. A nurse treating multiple sick people in close proximity, porters moving between wards of sick people, paramaedics responding to multiple unknown people every day and bringing them to hospital. Very different to requiring the public, with very low prevelance rates to wear a face covering while in Primark. We know hospitals are full of vulnerable people and are a significant source of infections.

In addition, I highly doubt the Head of the Royal College of Nursing is an expert in these matters. Just becase someone has a medical training doesn't make them an expert in infection control and the effectiveness of masks. In the same way that although I am an engineer and could give an opinion on say the design of a bridge, you wouldn't want to ask me to sign off on the design!