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Should restrictions be eased fully if Indian Variant case rates do not decline before June 21st?

If case rates do not decline before June 21st, what do you think should happen with the roadmap?

  • Go ahead with easing of all Covid restrictions on June 21st, assuming vaccinations are ramped up

    Votes: 174 52.9%
  • Go ahead with stage 4 of easing restrictions on June 21st, but keep masks and WFH guidance

    Votes: 29 8.8%
  • Ease some stage 4 restrictions on June 21st, but keep others for longer

    Votes: 36 10.9%
  • Postpone stage 4 easing to a later date in the worst affected hotspots

    Votes: 17 5.2%
  • Postpone stage 4 easing to a later date everywhere

    Votes: 47 14.3%
  • Impose new localised restrictions in the worst affected hotspots

    Votes: 7 2.1%
  • Impose new national restrictions

    Votes: 11 3.3%
  • Other (please specify)

    Votes: 8 2.4%

  • Total voters
    329
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Pete_uk

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For a few moments this afternoon I saw normality. I was on Stroud station waiting for the Flying Scotsman and by the time she passed through both platforms were very busy. Apart from the GWR lady I didn't see a mask and strangers were happily talking to each other while stood a meter apart.

The pandemic was a world away. Sadly that's not far enough for some.
 

BJames

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I think it should be mandatory, have the vaccine or be refused future medical treatment
Obviously you don't care about getting the virus
Shocking.

And for what it's worth, you'd be right in that I for one don't care about getting the virus. I have already had it, was over it pretty quickly and am not scared by any talk of "re-infection" and the like.

Why don't you spend the next few years inside if you're that concerned? If you take the vaccine, you are protecting yourself so what more can we do? It is absolutely not up to the vaccinated to tell the unvaccinated that they are inferior in society and that freedoms and services should be unavailable to them. We cannot spend years and years chasing zero covid, it's just not possible as many scientists and politicians have stressed. We are in the best place we can possibly be, and we need to unlock now, in the summer, as opposed to unlocking in the winter when the usual viruses and colds are at their highest number.

So with the recognition that we cannot chase zero covid, and the clear acknowledgement that we have broken the link between cases and hospitalisations (and most importantly, deaths), we must now re-emerge into reality. Anyone who says "but two more weeks won't impact too much and allows time for more people to be vaccinated" doesn't acknowledge that the people yet to be vaccinated are the youngest people, who are as close to zero risk from this as possible, and the most vulnerable people have been doubly-vaccinated. So yes, restrictions should be eased fully on the 21st June. An expected delay is shocking, and unnecessary on all fronts. The fact that Sadiq Khan, one of the biggest rule-sticklers throughout this, is now telling Johnson that we should be unlocking shows that more and more people are waking up to the fact that we cannot continue to live like this.
 

Freightmaster

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The difficulty is that we don't know what YouGov mean by "restrictions". Does that mean 53% of people want us to continue as now, or 53% of people are fine with some restrictions continuing but may still want the easing to go ahead? That ambiguity is quite important in trying to work out where public opinion is.
I think that people voting for the "continue restrictions" option on YouGov broadly fall into three categories:


1. those who have been brainwashed by months of Government/media fear-mongering and are convinced that,
irrespective of vaccines, Covid is as deadly as the Bubonic Plague so they absolutely must all be kept safe at all
costs until it is eradicated.

2. the 'Victor Meldrew' types who find it abhorrent that people want to enjoy themselves "in the middle of a pandemic"
by going on holiday, watching a football match, attending a music festival, etc.

3. the Working From Home contingent who have spent the past 15 months living the life of Riley and realise that
the current level of restrictions is the 'sweet spot' where they can enjoy most leisure activities without having to
endure their soul destroying daily commute.


The first two groups tend to shout the loudest, but I'm certain that it's the "I'm alright Jack" WFH lot who are the
silent majority when it comes to these polls and the only 'restrictions' they want to continue are the "work from
home if possible" ones...:rolleyes:






MARK
 
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Nicholas Lewis

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A convenient narrative to the government, locktavists and their merry band of BoJo supporters but not conclusive fact, especially when the majority of people have a 99% chance surviving covid.

The pure truth and fact of the matter is that the goal posts keep changing, get the vaccine so we can go back to normal, more than half the population went out and got the vaccine and now it’s looking likely that “Freedom Day” will be pushed to July, that has nothing to do with unvaccinated people but everything to do with a government that wants to be seen to be doing something rather than accepting that Covid is here to stay and we need to live with it.

I could twist It around and say that locktavists are directly responsible for the upcoming recession, job losses and a unprecedented mental health crisis, for their continued obsession with locking the nation down every time there’s a new variant.
This is simply that Boris is hoist by his own petard of saying it had to be irreversible so he's weighed up the risk of letting Step 4 go ahead then having to reverse it and decided on balance its a tad too risky for him. This is all about him and his needs not the rest of us and this data not dates slogan is just another charade. Of course the majority of the British public will lap this up because they've been brainwashed and for far too many of them they have an easy ride and continuing to work from home suits them down to the ground. Switch off all the support and let reality set in and then lets see what the British public really think.

EDIT: This now cropped up in tomorrows daily telegraph

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2021/06/12/fears-restrictions-could-place-spring/

Britain will have a six-week window to open up in the summer or risk keeping Covid-19 restrictions in place until the spring, ministers fear.

Boris Johnson on Saturday gave his clearest signal yet he is planning to delay a full return to normality for another month, as he said he wanted to give Covid-19 vaccines "extra legs" in "the race between the vaccines in the lockdowns".

But government advisers have told ministers they will face a ticking clock before it becomes too late to lift the remaining restrictions in September.

On Saturday night a senior minister said there were fears the planned delay would leave a "very short window to open up", with further postponements leading to an eventual re-opening in the spring, when transmission occurs less easily and winter strains on the NHS have eased.

The minister said: "I am very worried the people who want to keep us shut down now want us to keep us shut down permanently and are aiming for 'zero Covid'.

"Once you start delaying to the spring you're making this type of control of people's lives semi-permanent."
rest behind paywall but lets hope this is CRG making it clear its no more than four weeks.
"Once you start delaying to the spring you're making this type of control of people's lives semi-permanent."
 
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Jonny

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I agree that vaccination should be a choice.

However, once all over-18s have been offered two jabs (early autumn), then reasons will need to be found to justify ongoing restrictions, which will include:

i) Children haven't been jabbed yet, so aren't safe
ii) Winter pressure on the NHS
iii) New variants: real or hypothetical
iv) Several million eligible adults haven't come forward for the jab, or have refused it, and they aren't protected but are owed a duty of care by wider society

So actually, I'm afraid refusers are helping to build a narrative for the ongoing restrictions that many of them claim to despise.

It will come to the point where the restrictions become illegal, especially given the current enabling act. Anything that has the look-and-feel of a requirement to be vaccinated is enough to invalidate the enabling act. I'm not sure if the Uncivil Service Civil Service are imaginative enough to use another enabling act.
 

Bikeman78

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And masks may not have been mandatory till the end of the month, but everywhere I went people were wearing them!
They weren't in Wales. I went on my first post lockdown bus ride late June. Peak load of around 15 passengers each way. Only two passengers had masks each way. It was that rare that my daughter asked "what's that lady got on her face!" Same in shops. Maybe 20-25% of people wore them until the day they became mandatory.
 

Ianno87

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3. the Working From Home contingent who have spent the past 15 months living the life of Riley and realise that
the current level of restrictions is the 'sweet spot' where they can enjoy most leisure activities without having to
endure their soul destroying daily commute.

In my company (where we've all been working from home), people are definitely increasingly eager to get out and about again. Why would people want to go back to something that is soul destroying - the daily commute is dead for many people, whilst still being able to do their job.

(Oh, and it's not at all the "life of Riley", the last 15 month have at times been incredibly stressful sucked a hefty chuck of my job satisfaction from me. I wish posters on this forum would stop perpetuating this urban myth).
 

Mag_seven

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The work from home advice needs to be dropped now. If it's "safe" for supermarket workers, teachers, hospital staff, transport workers etc to go into work then it's "safe" for nine to five office workers, even more so if they have been vaccinated.
 

nlogax

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(Oh, and it's not at all the "life of Riley", the last 15 month have at times been incredibly stressful sucked a hefty chuck of my job satisfaction from me. I wish posters on this forum would stop perpetuating this urban myth).

100% agree with this. Thoughtless stereotyping about having to WFH drives me up the wall. It's obvious to me that those whom perpetuate this garbage have never had to actually do it.
 

westv

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The work from home advice needs to be dropped now. If it's "safe" for supermarket workers, teachers, hospital staff, transport workers etc to go into work then it's "safe" for nine to five office workers, even more so if they have been vaccinated.
Yet another "I can't have it so neither should you" post??
 

Ianno87

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100% agree with this. Thoughtless stereotyping about having to WFH drives me up the wall. It's obvious to me that those whom perpetuate this garbage have never had to actually do it.

Nor have any understanding about what office/WFH jobs actually involve doing on a day to day basis.
 

kristiang85

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I'm fed up of WAH. I'm probably going to keep it at 2-3 days a week, but I really miss human interaction in my work. I go into the office once a week now, just for a change of scenery and for quicker systems, but it's usually empty. The best parts of my job were the social side and the travel, and with neither of those it is very tedious paper pushing.
 

Watershed

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The work from home guidance should be dropped, if nothing else because it means that many people are forced to work from home where they don't want to, with employers justifying it on the basis that "well the advice is WFH, so we can't let you in the office".

It also works the other way around, with staff justifying their refusal to come into work - even if there are reasons to want them to do so - on the basis of "well it's the government advice".

The government still thinks of the guidance as being something that limits transmission, but I would be very interested to know how much of the "R budget" it is estimated as costing.
 

317 forever

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There’s definitely less taking notice of distancing. We’re in mid Wales this week, and distancing is virtually non existent. Only a small handful wearing masks outside, and plenty not wearing masks in the corridors of our hotel - and staff not batting an eyelid. Quite refreshing.
I noticed on a few occasions how people in queues at Greggs were no longer distancing. Maybe as so many people have been vaccinated people see less point in distancing. Admittedly, as distancing does not actually mean it takes any longer to be served, I don't see the problem with a little distancing.
 

bramling

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I fear some have lost the plot and are begging for authoritarianism without understanding that it effects them too.

Of course a death from Covid is sad as you say, but with certain people no death is as important as a Covid death anymore

As for the 28 day count in other countries, I don’t know I wonder if an international user would be able to enlighten us on this.

A lot of the clamour for restrictions centres around people who seem to want other people to be restricted, but who don’t really follow restrictions (or aren’t affected) themselves.

“It’s been lovely at work not having to deal with drunks for the last year”

“I want to continue working from home as it gives me a better work/life balance”

“My journey to work is easier”

“It’s nice having our village to ourselves”

All these things need to be separated out from Covid, as they’re not legitimate reasons for having restrictions.
 

Xenophon PCDGS

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Recent statements that the delta virus is now said to be 60% more infectious than other variants and that of the reported deaths said to have been from vaccinated people in the previous period where these people have had both of their vaccinations is now said to be 12 are yet another snippets of medical information that my next-door neighbour (who is a medical consultant) has passed on to me. He is based in one of the teaching hospitals in the North-West.

Do I have to take what he says "with a pinch of salt"?
 

kristiang85

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Recent statements that the delta virus is now said to be 60% more infectious than other variants and that of the reported deaths said to have been from vaccinated people in the previous period where these people have had both of their vaccinations is now said to be 12 are yet another snippets of medical information that my next-door neighbour (who is a medical consultant) has passed on to me. He is based in one of the teaching hospitals in the North-West.

Do I have to take what he says "with a pinch of salt"?

What age were these people? People with double jabs are likely to be more at risk anyway given they were prioritised, so could well have died from other things whilst testing positive for COVID. I don't know, as I don't have the data, but we shouldnt blindly trust the numbers without asking questions. Vaccinations aren't the elixir of eternal life.

And 12 people in total so far is not that concerning, in comparison to the myriad of other causes of death.
 

Xenophon PCDGS

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This is simply that Boris is hoist by his own petard of saying it had to be irreversible so he's weighed up the risk of letting Step 4 go ahead then having to reverse it and decided on balance its a tad too risky for him. This is all about him and his needs not the rest of us and this data not dates slogan is just another charade. Of course the majority of the British public will lap this up because they've been brainwashed and for far too many of them they have an easy ride and continuing to work from home suits them down to the ground. Switch off all the support and let reality set in and then lets see what the British public really think.

EDIT: This now cropped up in tomorrows daily telegraph

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2021/06/12/fears-restrictions-could-place-spring/


rest behind paywall but lets hope this is CRG making it clear its no more than four weeks.
So, reading between the lines of what you say, in political terms, does what Johnson say now go totally against what the ruling view of the Labour Party think should now happen after the 21st June?

The current situation in discussion makes me mindful of a film title which I think was called "The day after tomorrow".

What age were these people? People with double jabs are likely to be more at risk anyway given they were prioritised, so could well have died from other things whilst testing positive for COVID. I don't know, as I don't have the data, but we shouldnt blindly trust the numbers without asking questions. Vaccinations aren't the elixir of eternal life.

And 12 people in total so far is not that concerning, in comparison to the myriad of other causes of death.
OMG!!! I am 76 years of age, had my first Pfizer injection in January and my second Pfizer injection in April. I had a major stroke in July 2012, with a minor TIA in 2013. I had a laparotomy operation in 2018 where I had over a metre of intestine surgically removed, when it was touch and go for 12 hours whether I would pull through. According from my reading of your posting, it is amazing that I am still here, making postings on this website...:oops:
 
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Ianno87

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The work from home guidance should be dropped, if nothing else because it means that many people are forced to work from home where they don't want to, with employers justifying it on the basis that "well the advice is WFH, so we can't let you in the office".

It also works the other way around, with staff justifying their refusal to come into work - even if there are reasons to want them to do so - on the basis of "well it's the government advice".

To be honest, the majority view is "well I don't particularly need to visit the office as nobody else is there, so may as well carry on working at home".
 

NorthKent1989

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So, reading between the lines of what you say, in political terms, does what Johnson say now go totally against what the ruling view of the Labour Party think should now happen after the 21st June?

The current situation in discussion makes me mindful of a film title which I think was called "The day after tomorrow".


OMG!!! I am 76 years of age, had my first Pfizer injection in January and my second Pfizer injection in April. I had a major stroke in July 2012, with a minor TIA in 2013. I had a laparotomy operation in 2018 where I had over a metre of intestine surgically removed, when it was touch and go for 12 hours whether I would pull through. According from my reading of your posting, it is amazing that I am still here, making postings on this website...:oops:

Not sure if you’re pro or anti restrictions but I can’t see how extending restrictions helps the things that really needs to be looked at? For example, small businesses who had already planned on reopening fully on the 21st.

The vast majority of the population have complied this past year but there comes a time when normality resumes.
 

Failed Unit

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In my company (where we've all been working from home), people are definitely increasingly eager to get out and about again. Why would people want to go back to something that is soul destroying - the daily commute is dead for many people, whilst still being able to do their job.

(Oh, and it's not at all the "life of Riley", the last 15 month have at times been incredibly stressful sucked a hefty chuck of my job satisfaction from me. I wish posters on this forum would stop perpetuating this urban myth).
+1 I am sure I will be in the office less then pre COVID. But hours worked is up. Zoom calls are soul destroying. It is harder to turn down meetings as “what else are you doing”
 

Xenophon PCDGS

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Not sure if you’re pro or anti restrictions but I can’t see how extending restrictions helps the things that really needs to be looked at? For example, small businesses who had already planned on reopening fully on the 21st.

The vast majority of the population have complied this past year but there comes a time when normality resumes.

Should therefore no heed to be taken of warnings from "The Science" that a third spike caused by the delta virus is statistically beginning to reveal itself? Should these scientific professionals and medical professionals be "gagged" and not be allowed to influence any decision made by a Government.

Reports that a major international container port in China where much of their exports are sent from is in the area of such a third viral spike are to be ignored as just scaremongering from commercial vested interests.
 

Jamesrob637

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In my company (where we've all been working from home), people are definitely increasingly eager to get out and about again. Why would people want to go back to something that is soul destroying - the daily commute is dead for many people, whilst still being able to do their job.

(Oh, and it's not at all the "life of Riley", the last 15 month have at times been incredibly stressful sucked a hefty chuck of my job satisfaction from me. I wish posters on this forum would stop perpetuating this urban myth)

The daily commute. That's the operative word. Commuting is like medicine. Fine in moderation. I start a job tomorrow until the 1st of October, in Manchester city centre. I haven't used public transport to commute to work since the end of 2017, odd days notwithstanding. I'm sure I'll enjoy commuting for the few months, but will likely be fed up of doing it daily by the end of September when, all being well, I shall resume my permanent WFH job. Then, after a few weeks, I'll probably wish I was commuting to Manchester one or two days a week/one week a month!
 

NorthOxonian

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Should therefore no heed to be taken of warnings from "The Science" that a third spike caused by the delta virus is statistically beginning to reveal itself? Should these scientific professionals and medical professionals be "gagged" and not be allowed to influence any decision made by a Government.

Reports that a major international container port in China where much of their exports are sent from is in the area of such a third viral spike are to be ignored as just scaremongering from commercial vested interests.
The increasing number of cases is something we need to consider, definitely. As is modelling which suggests we may see hospitalisations increase (thanks to the vaccines they will remain at manageable levels, but still perhaps a few thousand per week).

But it has to be balanced with the economic harms, with the damage to mental health, and with the potential for social unrest. We also need to consider that delays now could push the peak away from the summer, into a season where it becomes more dangerous. On that basis, I would say unlocking on June 21st makes more sense than not.

One last question to ponder. Imagine you are the Health Secretary, and it's early 2019. You hear that a new virus has just been detected and it will send a few thousand people to hospital each week for a month or so, and there will be deaths numbering in the low thousands. What would you do? Would you impose stringent measures on the basis of just that? That situation is exactly where we are right now.
 

NorthKent1989

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Should therefore no heed to be taken of warnings from "The Science" that a third spike caused by the delta virus is statistically beginning to reveal itself? Should these scientific professionals and medical professionals be "gagged" and not be allowed to influence any decision made by a Government.

Reports that a major international container port in China where much of their exports are sent from is in the area of such a third viral spike are to be ignored as just scaremongering from commercial vested interests.

So you’re pro restrictions then? I’m not sure what you said responds to what I said earlier.

But there doesn’t seem to be an increase in deaths even with the new variant, only cases, therefore I still think we should let 21st June go ahead as planned or else where does the line end? 21st June turns into 19th July which turns into 18th August due to the xyz variant and so on

A lot of the clamour for restrictions centres around people who seem to want other people to be restricted, but who don’t really follow restrictions (or aren’t affected) themselves.

“It’s been lovely at work not having to deal with drunks for the last year”

“I want to continue working from home as it gives me a better work/life balance”

“My journey to work is easier”

“It’s nice having our village to ourselves”

All these things need to be separated out from Covid, as they’re not legitimate reasons for having restrictions.

Indeed you’re right, I’m finding this a lot, yet the locktavists would call us selfish for raising the fact that lockdowns has had a detrimental effect on the mental health of the nation, the economy, education and small businesses.

Julia Hartley Brewer interviewed a man the other day who I think works for SAGE, she pressed him until he admitted that he wanted lockdown to stay for selfish reasons, the man is in his 70s or 80s, so I more than agree that these people are the real selfish ones
 

Xenophon PCDGS

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In the last week before the 21st June arrives, does anyone expect the statistics to shown any noticeable increases in any of all those area usually shown?

What European countries look likely to ease existing restrictions in the near future, noting the delta virus seems universally widespread. Have the media in those counties made any comment on how the mental health of their population has suffered during this pandemic?
 

Yew

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What European countries look likely to ease existing restrictions in the near future, noting the delta virus seems universally widespread. Have the media in those counties made any comment on how the mental health of their population has suffered during this pandemic?
What European countries have vaccinated 80% of adults?
 

nlogax

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Julia Hartley Brewer interviewed a man the other day who I think works for SAGE, she pressed him until he admitted that he wanted lockdown to stay for selfish reasons,

Thankfully Dr Taylor is not a SAGE member, and having again listened to the interview it's not clear to me that his reasons for wanting lockdowns to continue were purely personal / selfish. JHB is a dire interviewer and nothing more than a populist hack who needed a dissenting opinion to be meat for her colosseum act.

I completely disagree with Dr Taylor's stance but it pays to bear in mind the nuance of some of these opinions. This whole thing is getting really binary and particularly unpleasant a la Brexit.
 

philosopher

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A lot of the clamour for restrictions centres around people who seem to want other people to be restricted, but who don’t really follow restrictions (or aren’t affected) themselves.

“It’s been lovely at work not having to deal with drunks for the last year”

“I want to continue working from home as it gives me a better work/life balance”

“My journey to work is easier”

“It’s nice having our village to ourselves”

All these things need to be separated out from Covid, as they’re not legitimate reasons for having restrictions.
If people hate the commute that much that they want to WFH permanently, then they should either negotiate with their employer to let them WFH permanently or move to a job that lets them WFH permanently. What they should not be doing is advocating restrictions that gives them what they want but negatively impacts on other people’s lives.
 
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