Should restrictions be eased fully if Indian Variant case rates do not decline before June 21st?

[Nicholas Lewis]

It can't be that long before we get to find out from "sources" what will be the exact news to be given to us tomorrow evening.

Presumably after tonights Covid-O meeting the hacks will be given a few snippets to warm us up for tomorrow let down.

 

[chris11256]

It can't be that long before we get to find out from "sources" what will be the exact news to be given to us tomorrow evening.

I'll be surprised if it's anything other than a month delay. There's speculation on a potential two week review, which could be useful as there's hints in the case data that growth may be leveling off(could of course be a blip but lets see).

 

[Failed Unit]

I'll be surprised if it's anything other than a month delay. There's speculation on a potential two week review, which could be useful as there's hints in the case data that growth may be leveling off(could of course be a blip but lets see).

That wouldnt surprise me. Say 4. Piss people off. Announce 2. Everyone is happy and forgets about the 2 week delay.

the railway should do this. Announcing double the expected delay. Then happy passengers when that isn’t the case.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

That wouldnt surprise me. Say 4. Piss people off. Announce 2. Everyone is happy and forgets about the 2 week delay.

the railway should do this. Announcing double the expected delay. Then happy passengers when that isn’t the case.

Not round here this morning they doubled down with service to be resumed by 1230 which then became 1530 even after the lines were reopened they kept on turning everything around short.

 

[bramling]

Yes, the solution here is employers continuing to offer employees flexibility in WFH where this is practical. I have certainly seen people on Twitter complaining about being "forced" back to the office as restrictions eased, whereas they may be less likely to complain if their employers treated them like grownups.

As ever, the trouble is a proportion of people acting up. There’s plenty of people treating it all as one big paid skive. The fact that WFH work/life balance is being linked (by some) to the need for Covid restrictions shows this.

Someone else posted that we currently have an unfortunate “sweet spot”, in that for such people the current restrictions don’t really stop them doing most of their leisure activities, but do allow them their over-riding goal which is WFH. This is why there’s a coterie of people quietly willing this all to go on as long as possible. It’s extraordinarily selfish.

See above. You have a much better chance of not catching it if you have the vaccine, and a far better chance of not dying from it. A 1% chance of death from an illness that can be caught through infection, doesn’t sound like great odds to me.

Surely the 1% varies up and down according to factors like age and underlying conditions? For someone in their 30s and ostensibly in good health, it’s surely well beneath 1%?

 

[londonteacher]

The work from home advice needs to be dropped now. If it's "safe" for supermarket workers, teachers, hospital staff, transport workers etc to go into work then it's "safe" for nine to five office workers, even more so if they have been vaccinated.

But, a lot of companies seem to be suggesting that they won't be returning to the office full time. Some even moving out of buildings to smaller premises. Canary Wharf and the City of London for example have been looking at converting office space into residential space. And why should companies return? Their job is not to prop up the coffee shops and other business in the areas - that was just a by product of their being.

https://www.reuters.com/world/uk/cr...ity-london-eyes-post-covid-future-2021-04-27/

London's "Square Mile" financial district plans to convert empty offices into homes and offer lower rents to creative businesses as part of a recovery plan from the COVID-19 pandemic, which has left many working from home and once bustling streets deserted.

The main landlord in London’s Canary Wharf financial district is considering scrapping plans for a new office skyscraper and building a 60-story apartment tower instead.

Read more at: https://www.bloombergquint.com/busi...crap-planned-office-skyscraper-for-apartments
Copyright © BloombergQuint

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

But, a lot of companies seem to be suggesting that they won't be returning to the office full time. Some even moving out of buildings to smaller premises. Canary Wharf and the City of London for example have been looking at converting office space into residential space. And why should companies return? Their job is not to prop up the coffee shops and other business in the areas - that was just a by product of their being.

https://www.reuters.com/world/uk/cr...ity-london-eyes-post-covid-future-2021-04-27/

The world is very interconnected space and i don't mean the internet. Your assertion that they don't need to prop up coffee shops is fine but behind that coffee shop is a multitude of suppliers who all need things like commercial insurance that will provide income to the likes of the financial institutions that occupy Canary Wharf. If its not finance its IT or web site hosting etc just let your imagination roll out and you see how buying that cup of coffee has trickle down impact across so many other areas. Thats not to say society won't evolve from this but government's gigantic financial intervention has been to prop our current way of life not to come up with a different way of doing things.

For many of these companies they are saying this to scare their landlords so rents come down people are social creatures and they do their best stuff by working collaborative together in the same space not over a video screen.

 

[londonteacher]

The world is very interconnected space and i don't mean the internet. Your assertion that they don't need to prop up coffee shops is fine but behind that coffee shop is a multitude of suppliers who all need things like commercial insurance that will provide income to the likes of the financial institutions that occupy Canary Wharf. If its not finance its IT or web site hosting etc just let your imagination roll out and you see how buying that cup of coffee has trickle down impact across so many other areas. Thats not to say society won't evolve from this but government's gigantic financial intervention has been to prop our current way of life not to come up with a different way of doing things.

For many of these companies they are saying this to scare their landlords so rents come down people are social creatures and they do their best stuff by working collaborative together in the same space not over a video screen.

I agree that coffee shops and other businesses do need propping up, but my point is that it's not the job of the tenants in the business districts to do this.

Unfortunately, businesses have to adapt and it's very unlikely that the previous way of life in terms of city working will ever return. I hope it does though - I love walking through Canary Wharf and the City (in a weird way, they are beautiful areas!).

 

[nlogax]

I agree that coffee shops and other businesses do need propping up, but my point is that it's not the job of the tenants in the business districts to do this.

Not via any direct contract but @Nicholas Lewis is correct about our interconnected nature. It's the essence of business and if we forget that then it's effectively game over from an economic standpoint.

 

[westv]

On the coffee front, I can't be the only person that has only ever got his coffee from the machine in the office rather than establishments outside. The only time I've bought a coffee is when visiting local cafes near home.

 

[NorthKent1989]

But, a lot of companies seem to be suggesting that they won't be returning to the office full time. Some even moving out of buildings to smaller premises. Canary Wharf and the City of London for example have been looking at converting office space into residential space. And why should companies return? Their job is not to prop up the coffee shops and other business in the areas - that was just a by product of their being.

https://www.reuters.com/world/uk/cr...ity-london-eyes-post-covid-future-2021-04-27/

Try being a barista who is worried about paying rent and bills! If people stopped going to these cafes and coffee shops then those staff would be unemployed have you thought about that?

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Do the latest statistics reveal anything about numbers of infections that should be a worry?

 

[duncanp]

Do the latest statistics reveal anything about numbers of infections that should be a worry?

The figures published today seem to suggest a slowing in the rate of increase in the number of cases.

The latest figure of 7,609 cases by specimen date (10th June) for the whole of the UK represents a week on week rise of 25%.

The corresponding figure of 6,086 cases by specimen date for 3rd June represents a week on week rise of 67.7%

It is far too early to say whether this is just a blip or part of a trend, and the figures for each day can of course be revised as more data comes in.

But nevertheless, when the rate of increase in cases starts to slow down, it is a sign that an outbreak is losing its momentum.

 

[Darandio]

But nevertheless, when the rate of increase in cases starts to slow down, it is a sign that an outbreak is losing its momentum.

And i'm fairly sure that the hotpots where this variant first took hold had already showed the pattern of losing momentum a couple of weeks ago and therefore predicting what might happen wherever cases started to rise. Coupled with no related surge in hospitalisations, I still cannot see the doomsday scenario some 'experts' are predicting.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Is there any truth in remarks that I have heard from my gardener stating that Germany have not allowed people from Britain to enter their country?

 

[3141]

How interesting that even if you’ve had both jabs you can still not only catch Covid but pass it on too! How very interesting indeed!

Yes I have considered all angles for your information and haven’t you heard that Covid has a 99% rate of survival? Plus I’m in my early 30s, most people I know who have had Covid recovered and said the symptoms were minor, so it’s not a case of me “deciding” it won’t effect me badly, it’s a hard fact.

What point are you trying to prove exactly?

I wasn't trying to prove a point. I was expressing my interest in your views.

 

[Jonny]

It will be particularly awkward if the restrictions are not eased, given that the Queen herself was next to President (Joe) Biden without a mask or social distancing, as featured in this article...

Queen meets Joe Biden at Windsor Castle

The US president's visit included a Guard of Honour and afternoon tea with the monarch.

www.bbc.co.uk

It would be a case of rules for us, but not for them. If the Queen doesn't need a face covering, then why do I?

Edit to clarify: The point is The Queen and Joe Biden, next to each other, indoors and without face coverings.

 

[WelshBluebird]

I expect town centre pubs are particularly suffering from a lack of office workers going for a drink after work.

At least in Bristol, whenever I've been into the city centre the pubs that are open have all been pretty much as full as they can be at the moment. The same is true of the places I've seen in Bath too.

Yes, that is still not as full as they normally would be, but my point is more even if office workers were about the pubs wouldn't be any busier than what they are now.

It will be particularly awkward if the restrictions are not eased, given that the Queen herself was next to President (Joe) Biden without a mask or social distancing, as featured in this article...

Queen meets Joe Biden at Windsor Castle

The US president's visit included a Guard of Honour and afternoon tea with the monarch.

www.bbc.co.uk

It would be a case of rules for us, but not for them. If the Queen doesn't need a face covering, then why do I?

Edit to clarify: The point is The Queen and Joe Biden, next to each other, indoors and without face coverings.

You're allowed to be indoors with people from other households without a mask now. That rule got relaxed back in May. So don't see why that picture would be awkward or an example of one rule for us. Maybe you think it does because it is technically "work" and so for most people health and safety laws mean their employer has to take more precautions which often involve masks and social distancing? Or do you just think peope in the public eye should be going beyond what the rules actually are?

 

[Lampshade]

100% agree with this. Thoughtless stereotyping about having to WFH drives me up the wall. It's obvious to me that those whom perpetuate this garbage have never had to actually do it.

I’ve seen many people conflate WFH with furlough, and it’s infuriating, have never been busier.

 

[NorthKent1989]

I wasn't trying to prove a point. I was expressing my interest in your views.

My apologies then, I feel that I’m under attack for not wanting the vaccine all the time, it’s gets exhausting but once again my apologies

 

[Failed Unit]

Is there any truth in remarks that I have heard from my gardener stating that Germany have not allowed people from Britain to enter their country?

I have heard this rumour. They haven’t learned a thing from the Kent variety if that is the case. If the are daft enough to think it is not already in their country.

but then we are fools. We test for variations and find them so we know they exist. Other European countries don’t and can take the holier then thou view they don’t have it (as they don’t bother looking)

 

[londonteacher]

Try being a barista who is worried about paying rent and bills! If people stopped going to these cafes and coffee shops then those staff would be unemployed have you thought about that?

Yes, I have thought about that. But, I fail to see how governments can force people to work in an office if they have been able to do the same job from home for the last year? Companies will simply move out of the areas if they are mandated to force their staff to return to in-person working. I do have sympathy for baristas and other people employed by affected services and I do see the link between fewer people working in cities to the number of jobs saved.

Maybe the government could tax businesses more that have less than a certain percentage of staff working from home - but that is another thread.

 

[WelshBluebird]

Yes, I have thought about that. But, I fail to see how governments can force people to work in an office if they have been able to do the same job from home for the last year? Companies will simply move out of the areas if they are mandated to force their staff to return to in-person working.

Even more, for some industries, if they do try to get people back in the office full time the staff will simply quit to go somewhere that won't force that. Of course not an option for everyone, but for some industries any company forcing people back to the office will be signing their own death certificate.

 

[londonteacher]

Even more, for some industries, if they do try to get people back in the office full time the staff will simply quit to go somewhere that won't force that. Of course not an option for everyone, but for some industries any company forcing people back to the office will be signing their own death certificate.

Especially when many industries have proven that there is no need for people to be working in person.

 

[Ianno87]

Even more, for some industries, if they do try to get people back in the office full time the staff will simply quit to go somewhere that won't force that. Of course not an option for everyone, but for some industries any company forcing people back to the office will be signing their own death certificate.

Ironically, WFH means you can covertly be in touch with alternative employers without being conspicuous in your absence from the office (for an interview) or mysteriously come in dressed up smarter than usual one day...

 

[Failed Unit]

Especially when many industries have proven that there is no need for people to be working in person.

Have they? I work in IT. The longer this goes on the more people want back in the office. 10% said full time. 50% said part time. So 60% of our company don’t want the current situation to continue. Missing speaking to real people is the biggest reason.

 

[WelshBluebird]

Have they? I work in IT. The longer this goes on the more people want back in the office. 10% said full time. 50% said part time. So 60% of our company don’t want the current situation to continue. Missing speaking to real people is the biggest reason.

So 90% have said they so not want to be in the office full time and yet you spin that in favour of forcing people back to the office??

I also work in the industry (software development). The vast majority of my colleagues have said they want to work from home most of the time. Quite a few have said they will quit if they do not get to choose how often or not they are in the office.

 

[Jonny]

At least in Bristol, whenever I've been into the city centre the pubs that are open have all been pretty much as full as they can be at the moment. The same is true of the places I've seen in Bath too.

Yes, that is still not as full as they normally would be, but my point is more even if office workers were about the pubs wouldn't be any busier than what they are now.


You're allowed to be indoors with people from other households without a mask now. That rule got relaxed back in May. So don't see why that picture would be awkward or an example of one rule for us. Maybe you think it does because it is technically "work" and so for most people health and safety laws mean their employer has to take more precautions which often involve masks and social distancing? Or do you just think peope in the public eye should be going beyond what the rules actually are?

I think that once they are in the public eye, then they are setting the standard for all of us; especially so when those who as Constables (*) swear/pledge allegiance to her in order to take up the role.

And, yes, the annoying thing is the double standards. If they set some rules, they should follow them. If they keep going on their current trajectory, "reasonable excuse" will become a whole lot wider.

* Constable = Police Officer (for any non-British readers).

 

[NorthOxonian]

Even more, for some industries, if they do try to get people back in the office full time the staff will simply quit to go somewhere that won't force that. Of course not an option for everyone, but for some industries any company forcing people back to the office will be signing their own death certificate.

I think it'll vary quite a lot. Most people my age (who generally haven't really started on their careers so value different things to more veteran workers) hate the thought of permanent working from home. Indeed quite a few of us would explicitly look to work somewhere which generally encouraged working in the office, and would not apply to a job if it was massively pro-WFH. In larger industries, I expect there will be a mixture and those seeking work will tend to apply to firms which had a similar philosophy to them.

 

[WelshBluebird]

I think that once they are in the public eye, then they are setting the standard for all of us; especially so when those who as Constables (*) swear/pledge allegiance to her in order to take up the role.

And, yes, the annoying thing is the double standards. If they set some rules, they should follow them. If they keep going on their current trajectory, "reasonable excuse" will become a whole lot wider.

* Constable = Police Officer (for any non-British readers).

I'm still not sure what you are saying.
In those pictures they are following the rules.
Unless you are saying because they are in the public eye they should follow some other rules that aren't defined anywhere.