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Should travel abroad be restricted to vaccinated people only?

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Horizon22

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In principle yes, but only if EVERYONE had been routinely offered a vaccination and exemptions have been put in place for those medically unable to take it. As it so happens, rollout is broadly being based on age, so you are preventing millions of perfectly healthy young people from travelling abroad. And this is through no fault of their own; I'm sure most would jump at the opportunity if it allowed them to travel.

Don't give me that old rubbish. We've all given up a lot to save each other. Plenty of places to visit in the UK for a holiday so perhaps the "young" should explore their own country until such time as they can holiday abroad.

That's a nice way to disregard those young people who haven't seen their families abroad then.
 
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AlterEgo

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In principle yes, but only if EVERYONE had been routinely offered a vaccination and exemptions have been put in place for those medically unable to take it. As it so happens, rollout is broadly being based on age, so you are preventing millions of perfectly healthy young people from travelling abroad. And this is through no fault of their own; I'm sure most would jump at the opportunity if it allowed them to travel.
But it’s not our government’s policy to ban travel outside the country based on vaccine status.

It’s other, sovereign nations who are choosing not to accept the unvaccinated. It’s like shouting at clouds.
 

Richard Scott

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Actually I love travelling, spend as much as I can travelling. Christmas 2020 in the US, a weekend January 2020 in Berlin and a day trip to Venice in February 2020.

I will, hopefully, be in the US in August and Kenya over Christmas.

Travelling abroad is important but its a luxury.
So if it's important what point you trying to make? I wouldn't consider travelling a luxury, when does something become a luxury anyway? We don't need central heating but doubt many people would want to live without it but we could; is that a luxury? Your idea of s luxury may be different to someone else's. I don't consider travelling abroad a luxury.
 

Horizon22

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But it’s not our government’s policy to ban travel outside the country based on vaccine status.

It’s other, sovereign nations who are choosing not to accept the unvaccinated. It’s like shouting at clouds.

I agree, but we're talking about the things that are fundamentally in our control and I don't think the UK should. However once one country does it - particularly a major EU power - it will probably be difficult sadly to stop the momentum across Europe and indeed globally.
 

Hawkwood Junc

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Part of my job is visiting and inspecting sites overseas on behalf of clients in the aviation industry, it's my own company too.

I'd usually do 5-10 trips away a year. I'm 34 so expecting to wait a relatively long time for my vaccination. Most of my travel is for business. I have 1 trip to France booked with family for a week in a friend's place in late June but my main concern is will I be able to travel for business. While all the chat is about holidays - which I agree is massively important, not only for people to enjoy but for employment, it's also important for the bits of business that can't be done over blooming Teams or Zoom.
 

bramling

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Moderator note: Split from https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/vaccine-progress-approval-and-deployment.211585/


I don't think they are opposite ends of the story. The EU didn't look after their citizens now the national governments are scrambling to limit the damage through any means. The Italian government made the right decision to block the export. Its leaders like Macron who should be ashamed, bashing AZ for political gain at the cost of undermining take up.

Cyprus has announced that Brits will be allowed in from 1st May if they have had their second dose of an EMA approved vaccine at least a week prior to arrival. Depending on the actions of the UK government that should salvage the summer season for older Brits but would be useless for half the population. Even if children are exempted the majority of parents won't have had their second dose before the school holidays. They should need their first by mid to late April and we are likely be be jabbing people in their late 40s then.

Cyprus is pitching itself towards the wealthier end of the market but other countries will inevitably accept one vaccine, and some just a recent negative test result. At the end of last I wrote off travel to anywhere in the EU until 2022. I had a good holiday in Italy last year after the Foreign Office advised against non essential travel to Italy and will go abroad again as long as its legal. If work authorise me working from a quarantine hotel then if necessary I would choose it over a domestic holiday.

The question is a little academic, as there's naff all we can do if another country wishes to impose a restriction. A bigger worry is if the practice becomes sufficiently emboldened that we see things like "no vaccine no entry" in places like hotels or shops here. That would bug me a lot more, and is something we can actually do something about.
 

Huntergreed

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I’m a young 19 year old. I’m more than happy to explore the UK this year whilst the vaccine gets rolled out, but I disagree with vaccine passports on the basis that they’re discriminatory against people my age who won’t be offered it until July time and won’t be allowed to travel.
 

Bikeman78

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In answer to the thread question I don't think people should be restricted in travelling abroad and I'm sure the rules that the UK will set will allow international travel regardless of vaccination status. But, this doesn't mean, and most likely won't, be reciprocated by other countries.
I'm curious as to what is the benefit of keeping the British people out. Using Belgium as an example, the Dutch or the French can simply walk across the border. From what I've read, the hourly train from Amsterdam to Brussels runs normally without much in the way of border checks. But yes, you're probably right. We haven't gone out of our way to make friends in Europe recently!
 

sheff1

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I can't see the Government maintaining a legal block on going abroad for long. The politics of it are awful. Its one thing to have quarantine requirements, its another to make it a criminal offence just to go on holiday outside of the UK (after the lockdown has been lifted).
The Government have had no qualms in making it a criminal offence to visit family members in their own home, or vice versa, for nearly a year now in some parts of the country. That hasn't seemed to have had much political effect, indeed the supposed 'oppostion' are usually calling for more restrictions (a.k.a offences), not less.

I hope you are correct, but I wouldn't bet on it. Back in June many were saying mandatory face coverings wouldn't last long as the security services/police would not allow it ..... we all know what happened there.

I'm curious as to what is the benefit of keeping the British people out.
In some cases it will be a tit for tat situation. Boris/Hancock ban people from Country X entering England (or require them to quarantine) so Country X bans us travelling there - the same applied with admittance/visas before Covid.
 
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Tazi Hupefi

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The law is so weak on preventing international travel as it stands, pretty much anyone with half a brain could come up with a reasonable excuse to travel anywhere in the world. The new exit declaration form they've introduced makes it even easier!

It's already technically lawful to travel internationally for exercise, shopping etc. The legislation imposes no limits in terms of distance or mode of transport.

In reality the issue is, and always will be, what the entry requirements are at your destination.

The police aren't totally idiotic either, they know if they incorrectly and unlawfully prevent someone travelling, they're on the hook for consequential losses, reimbursement of travel costs, as well as various potential human rights etc violations. They've got no choice really other than to just accept people at face value.
 
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Freightmaster

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Don't give me that old rubbish. We've all given up a lot to save each other. Plenty of places to visit in the UK for a holiday so perhaps the "young" should explore their own country until such time as they can holiday abroad.
OK, boomer! <:D


I'd be interested to know what has been given up compared to the younger generation. Is bingo one of them?
Access to National Trust tearooms??






MARK
 

Cdd89

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The law is so weak on preventing international travel as it stands, pretty much anyone with half a brain could come up with a reasonable excuse to travel anywhere in the world

I agree, but equally there are a ridiculous number of hoops to jump through now, all from the U.K. side.

On a return journey you will require:
  • Outbound exit form (since this solely relates to “rules for leaving home”, why, I wonder, is this required for international flights and not domestic ones? I can’t think of the justification)
  • Pre-departure test to return to the UK within 72h
  • Booked PCR tests from the NHS @£105 each
  • Completed passenger locator form
  • Extreme patience for U.K. border checks which take forever
  • Quarantine regardless of origin
  • The ever present risk that the country you are in or have transited will be added to the red list for hotel quarantine, and flights withdrawn at a moment’s notice
I’d say that’s quite a deterrent. Not that it’ll be stopping me if travel isn’t restored in the next few months.
 

Freightmaster

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If UK holidays make you miserable then that is your issue!

Shocking to see such such a lack of empathy for other people's personal mental health 'triggers' being
displayed by a teacher of all people! o_O

Unfortunately, this has been a recurring theme throughout this pandemic - people who can cope with
the restrictions belittling those who can't...




MARK
 

Spamcan81

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The stench of entitlement on this thread is almost overpowering. I'm itching to start international travel again but if I have to wait until I've been vaccinated until I can visit some countries then so be it. Until then I'll make the most of things in my home country. And for those complaining abut having to have a Covid jab before visiting certain countries, you'd better not try visiting those that require a yellow fever jab before being allowed in.
 

Gadget88

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Most countries will allow negative Covid result to enter with a green passport. I wouldn’t worry too much. Some people can’t have the vaccine.
 
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Scotrail12

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The stench of entitlement on this thread is almost overpowering. I'm itching to start international travel again but if I have to wait until I've been vaccinated until I can visit some countries then so be it. Until then I'll make the most of things in my home country. And for those complaining abut having to have a Covid jab before visiting certain countries, you'd better not try visiting those that require a yellow fever jab before being allowed in.
Is the yellow fever jab only available to specific age groups?
 

Tazi Hupefi

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I agree, but equally there are a ridiculous number of hoops to jump through now, all from the U.K. side.

On a return journey you will require:
  • Outbound exit form (since this solely relates to “rules for leaving home”, why, I wonder, is this required for international flights and not domestic ones? I can’t think of the justification)
  • Pre-departure test to return to the UK within 72h
  • Booked PCR tests from the NHS @£105 each
  • Completed passenger locator form
  • Extreme patience for U.K. border checks which take forever
  • Quarantine regardless of origin
  • The ever present risk that the country you are in or have transited will be added to the red list for hotel quarantine, and flights withdrawn at a moment’s notice
I’d say that’s quite a deterrent. Not that it’ll be stopping me if travel isn’t restored in the next few months.

That will be over within a few weeks. In any event, I strongly suspect the return quarantine process is currently unlawful under the International Health Regulations (2005) which the UK signed up to. I certainly don't believe it is lawful to charge a fee.


Article 40 Charges for health measures regarding travellers
1. Except for travellers seeking temporary or permanent residence, and subject to paragraph 2 of this Article, no charge shall be made by a State Party pursuant to these Regulations for the following measures for the protection of public health:
(a) any medical examination provided for in these Regulations, or any supplementary
examination which may be required by that State Party to ascertain the health status of the
traveller examined;
(b) any vaccination or other prophylaxis provided to a traveller on arrival that is not a
published requirement or is a requirement published less than 10 days prior to provision of the vaccination or other prophylaxis;
(c) appropriate isolation or quarantine requirements of travellers;
(d) any certificate issued to the traveller specifying the measures applied and the date of
application; or
(e) any health measures applied to baggage accompanying the traveller.

In fact, it is blatantly unlawful in my view, and somebody really ought to contest it.
 

bramling

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The stench of entitlement on this thread is almost overpowering. I'm itching to start international travel again but if I have to wait until I've been vaccinated until I can visit some countries then so be it. Until then I'll make the most of things in my home country. And for those complaining abut having to have a Covid jab before visiting certain countries, you'd better not try visiting those that require a yellow fever jab before being allowed in.

The difficulty is that, once again, it’s going to be younger people screwed over. It doesn’t bother me as I don’t do foreign holidays, but if I were something like a 30 something who’s worked right through this in something like a supermarket I’d be quite p-d off seeing all the older generations booking strings of exotic holidays.
 

Chester1

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The stench of entitlement on this thread is almost overpowering. I'm itching to start international travel again but if I have to wait until I've been vaccinated until I can visit some countries then so be it. Until then I'll make the most of things in my home country. And for those complaining abut having to have a Covid jab before visiting certain countries, you'd better not try visiting those that require a yellow fever jab before being allowed in.

I have had the Yellow fever jab. There are two issues that make it very different:

1) Age - the people who the lockdowns protected will be able to travel while those whose futures the lockdown has hurt the most might not be able to until the Autumn if the government links vaccination status and quarantine requirements. Of course by the autumn I mean next year because the ususal suspects will whip up fear about variants and restrictions will be put in place again to protect people aged 50+.

2) The Government may try to keep foreign travel illegal for longer than necessary as an economic stimulus. A load of little Englanders saying how wonderful British holidays are (or people saying covid travel restrictions will help with climate change) adds to the view its about a dislike of foreign holidays in general. I will listen to people argue about restrictions for public health reasons. I have no respect for people telling me that I should enjoy the prospect of an over priced holiday in poor quality accommodation where I would be praying for the weather to hold out.

We not entitled to go abroad as an absolute right but we are entitled for the Government to find safe ways of enabling it for everyone (outside of a lockdown). Freedom of travel is a basic right of a free society, its not a luxury. So far the Govermment has not stepped over the boundary of making it illegal to go abroad directly. It will be interesting to see if this form system actually stays in force after the end of the lockdown.

The Government have had no qualms in making it a criminal offence to visit family members in their own home, or vice versa, for nearly a year now in some parts of the country. That hasn't seemed to have had much political effect, indeed the supposed 'oppostion' are usually calling for more restrictions (a.k.a offences), not less.

The difference to international travel is that most of the population is flouting regulations on socialising, so they don't have much of a practical effect. A legal block of travelling abroad is much more effective.

The difficulty is that, once again, it’s going to be younger people screwed over. It doesn’t bother me as I don’t do foreign holidays, but if I were something like a 30 something who’s worked right through this in something like a supermarket I’d be quite p-d off seeing all the older generations booking strings of exotic holidays.

Exactly, there are seemingly few high risk people that are grateful for the sacrifices low risk people have made.
 

yorksrob

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I suppose the difficulty with "abroad" is that it's up to "abroad" who they let in or not.

My view is that as a country, we have control over what we do here, so we should open up as much as possible so that those who would normally choose to travel further afield at least have some options/release in terms of leisure until "abroad" decides its time to get back to normal.
 

Bantamzen

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A holiday in the UK isn't really a holiday though.
It's not going to be relaxing or enjoyable if Everyman and their dog flocks to Costa del Bournemouth's or Cornwall
To be fair there are a lot a fantastic place to visit in the UK. However the problem here is the weather, and frankly the cost. Also, as this thread is showing, Brits aren't always the friendliest of people, one of the joys of going abroad is mingling and talking with the locals, hearing their stories and sharing ours. Of course some of the miserable gits here would probably just sulk in a corner because the restaurant wouldn't serve them egg and chips with a cup of weak Nescafe!

But it’s not our government’s policy to ban travel outside the country based on vaccine status.

It’s other, sovereign nations who are choosing not to accept the unvaccinated. It’s like shouting at clouds.
This is where a little thing called diplomacy comes in. It would be in the interest of both nations to come to some arrangement whereby vaccination is not mandatory.

The stench of entitlement on this thread is almost overpowering. I'm itching to start international travel again but if I have to wait until I've been vaccinated until I can visit some countries then so be it. Until then I'll make the most of things in my home country. And for those complaining abut having to have a Covid jab before visiting certain countries, you'd better not try visiting those that require a yellow fever jab before being allowed in.
Oh wind yer neck in. Its not a sense of entitlement, its about allowing all people the opportunity to travel, not restrict them through no fault of their own. People travelling to the few countries that require yellow fever jabs (which by the way is in no way comparable with covid) you can simply book a jab and away you go. For literally millions of people a covid jab is not yet available, so countries who do not account are basically discriminating. You might b comfortable with this, many of us are not.
 

cactustwirly

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To be fair there are a lot a fantastic place to visit in the UK. However the problem here is the weather, and frankly the cost. Also, as this thread is showing, Brits aren't always the friendliest of people, one of the joys of going abroad is mingling and talking with the locals, hearing their stories and sharing ours. Of course some of the miserable gits here would probably just sulk in a corner because the restaurant wouldn't serve them egg and chips with a cup of weak Nescafe!

Yeah there are, but I wouldn't consider it a proper holiday tbh.

That for me is visiting somewhere different and experiencing cultures and food.
 

londonteacher

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Shocking to see such such a lack of empathy for other people's personal mental health 'triggers' being
displayed by a teacher of all people! o_O

Unfortunately, this has been a recurring theme throughout this pandemic - people who can cope with
the restrictions belittling those who can't...




MARK
Not wanting to go on holiday in the UK is hardly anything to do with mental health. It is people feeling that they are entitled to things when in reality they really are not.

International travel restrictions have been difficult for me as well.
 

Richard Scott

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Not wanting to go on holiday in the UK is hardly anything to do with mental health. It is people feeling that they are entitled to things when in reality they really are not.

International travel restrictions have been difficult for me as well.
How do you know? Maybe not for you but for others it's really important.
 

londonteacher

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The stench of entitlement on this thread is almost overpowering. I'm itching to start international travel again but if I have to wait until I've been vaccinated until I can visit some countries then so be it.
Completely agree with you on that - but be careful can't have that opinion on here! People don't seem to realise that other countries have the right to determine their own border restrictions because it seems that the UK has a god-given right to travel wherever we want to!
 

Bantamzen

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Yeah there are, but I wouldn't consider it a proper holiday tbh.

That for me is visiting somewhere different and experiencing cultures and food.
I agree, and through that experience we rub up against different cultures & people, learn from them as they do from us. Its how the world will eventually find peace with itself, when everyone has the chance to integrate & understand each other. Those advocating sitting in our little boxes, behind closed borders damage not only ourselves but everyone. Isolation breeds suspicion, which breeds hatred, and eventually war. Its why I am quite passionate on the subject.
 

londonteacher

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How do you know? Maybe not for you but for others it's really important.
Because you can still go on holiday in the UK. You can still experience different cultures within the UK, new food and see amazing places all without leaving the UK.

So are we saying that if you cannot afford to travel abroad your mental health will be bad? I know that everyone has their own mental health triggers and it is possible but it is getting ridiculous the level of entitlement.
 

Bantamzen

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Because you can still go on holiday in the UK. You can still experience different cultures within the UK, new food and see amazing places all without leaving the UK.

So are we saying that if you cannot afford to travel abroad your mental health will be bad? I know that everyone has their own mental health triggers and it is possible but it is getting ridiculous the level of entitlement.
Another on that thinks travel is an entitlement. What if say Yorkshire were to say no-one from outside were allowed in or out? Or what if your local town do the same? Its petty minded crap quite frankly.
 

londonteacher

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Another on that thinks travel is an entitlement. What if say Yorkshire were to say no-one from outside were allowed in or out? Or what if your local town do the same? Its petty minded crap quite frankly.
They are part of our country though so completely different.
 
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