Shunting Poles!!!! are they called something else in other places?

[doxy1968]

Not sure where to post this so admins please move to appropriate forum if possible, without going into too much detail I work for a company that uses dozens of these every few months, supply has been limited since before Xmas 2021 due to various issues. Would anyone know international names for said item which we've always referred to as a "Shunting Pole"? basically I'm looking for other suppliers/manufacturers across the planet who may be able to help us out with these if our supply dries up again. What I'm getting it is, when I search online and in particular adding words like USA railroads or other buzzwords to associate the pole to rail use i get nothing back that suggests the item even exists. I understand that a lot of rail networks dont use them anymore and there is only one supplier in the UK of these poles in Richard Carter (where we buy them from). Any help would be greatly appreciated.

 

[LowLevel]

Bear in mind a lot of other networks standardised on auto couplers for freight wagons many years before we went down that road, the USA in particular. Not sure they were ever particularly common outside the UK.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Boat hook...?

 

[hexagon789]

Not sure where to post this so admins please move to appropriate forum if possible, without going into too much detail I work for a company that uses dozens of these every few months, supply has been limited since before Xmas 2021 due to various issues. Would anyone know international names for said item which we've always referred to as a "Shunting Pole"? basically I'm looking for other suppliers/manufacturers across the planet who may be able to help us out with these if our supply dries up again. What I'm getting it is, when I search online and in particular adding words like USA railroads or other buzzwords to associate the pole to rail use i get nothing back that suggests the item even exists. I understand that a lot of rail networks dont use them anymore and there is only one supplier in the UK of these poles in Richard Carter (where we buy them from). Any help would be greatly appreciated.



View attachment 118626

The term is used in the US. Indeed, many locos had "poling pockets" to lock the pole into, so widespread was the practice at one stage. It was officialy outlawed by the rules changes in the 50s, but GP38s rolled off the EMD production line with poling pockets as late as 1971.

The practice continued unofficially on some shortlines into the 1990s I'm given to understand.

The practice was known in the US as pole shunting or "poling", so I'm not sure why searches fail to bring anything up.

 

[ac6000cw]

The term is used in the US. Indeed, many locos had "poling pockets" to lock the pole into, so widespread was the practice at one stage. It was officialy outlawed by the rules changes in the 50s, but GP38s rolled off the EMD production line with poling pockets as late as 1971.

The practice continued unofficially on some shortlines into the 1990s I'm given to understand.

The practice was known in the US as pole shunting or "poling", so I'm not sure why searches fail to bring anything up.

Be careful about mixing up poles used to lift on/off three link wagon couplings from the side of the train in the UK and elsewhere when shunting (which I think is what is pictured in the OP), and a loco moving wagons on an adjacent track by using a (generally more substantial) pole to connect the two across the 'six foot' between the tracks.

 

[doxy1968]

Many thanks for the replies, I've no doubt that through the 1900's these were manufactured by dozens if not hundreds of places worldwide but now it seems there is only 1 place that makes them! if by chance anyone happens to find a plentiful supply please let me know. I've already contacted various Rail Freight operators in the US and Canada and have had zero response, assuming they'd not replied as the terminology i was using was confusing them!!!

Yeah, I work for Tata Steel, have been in the rail department for 30 years and know the difference, we only use shunting poles for screw and link couplings no other purpose.

 

[pdeaves]

Yeah, I work for Tata Steel, have been in the rail department for 30 years and know the difference, we only use shunting poles for screw and link couplings no other purpose.

Simplistically, what you want is a long bit of bent metal (a hook). Given the employer, could you make a case to cast these on site? May not be practical for a million and one reasons, I appreciate

 

[ac6000cw]

Simplistically, what you want is a long bit of bent metal (a hook). Given the employer, could you make a case to cast these on site? May not be practical for a million and one reasons, I appreciate

A good blacksmith could probably make them (or maybe the maintenance dept in a huge place like a steelworks?)

 

[Trestrol]

Pigs tail?

 

[hexagon789]

Be careful about mixing up poles used to lift on/off three link wagon couplings from the side of the train in the UK and elsewhere when shunting (which I think is what is pictured in the OP), and a loco moving wagons on an adjacent track by using a (generally more substantial) pole to connect the two across the 'six foot' between the tracks.

Ah, I was talking about shunting with poles in the sense of transferring the motion of an engine on one track to wagons on an adjacent track - ie the latter option you describe.

 

[Gloster]

Do you wreck the pole so much that all parts are unusable, or do you do something that happened in my day (forty plus years ago) of breaking the wooden part close to the metal part. I know that long ago they could be sent back to stores and a new handle fitted to an old hook end. If it is regular occurrence, then possibly your repair shop could do this, although you might want to get prepared wooden shafts provided (in a suitable type of wood) from outside. (I must say that you do seem to get through them at quite a rate.)

 

[doxy1968]

We can't/won't allow our own men to make them due to insurance purposes, there's too much red tape involved. As for how they break, we will sometimes suffer hook breakages at a huge rate when we are training new shunters who haven't got the hang of swinging a coupling up onto a drawbar, they end up jamming the "Pigs Tail" and they snap off when forced out, this always occurs during a glut of new starters, our main problem with the supplier in their words is the hickory shafts are tremendously hard to get stock of! now what has changed in all these years I've no idea, whether it's just the price of the timber or simply a shortage if hickory...We've debated other products and even had prototypes made from Sapele and used a welded pigs tail instead of cast one but they've proved unreliable from a wood source.

 

[Hadrian]

Drawing on experience with shovel handles (for PWay) you could consider having GRP poles made to replace wood. With shovels, the use of GRP replacement handles virtually eliminated splinters from unsuitable wood which had been used when appropriate wood became hard to find.

The hook end for a shunting pole has a very specific configuration - so boat hooks are unlikely to be a satisfactory substitute.

 

[Dr Hoo]

I thought that 'pole shunting' was generally called 'propping' in the UK.

Still generally frowned on, at least in main line applications. The sort of thing that you might do in a goods depot.

 

[AndrewE]

On shunting poles (proper, as used for three-link couplings,) my understanding is that the shafts were of hickory, because it was the only wood fit for the purpose. When they got broken they were returned to stores because the wood was so valuable that all the parts went back to be re-used... as hammer handles.

 

[Ashley Hill]

I’ve never seen the hook brake but have in the past seen poles that have snapped ,usually through having been used to ride on or when used instead of a brake stick.

 

[Irascible]

Bear in mind a lot of other networks standardised on auto couplers for freight wagons many years before we went down that road, the USA in particular. Not sure they were ever particularly common outside the UK.

You still have to release the couplers yourself ( at the moment ), I have a vague idea you can do that with a pole?

On the continent they still use a lot of screw couplers, do they not? presuambly they don't stop to screw the couplers up & charge the brakes every single movement, so a remote device would be handy.

 

[doxy1968]

Our wagon supply and useage consists of a huge fleet of around 1000+ wagons consisting of BYA (Buckeye Auto Couplings), BLA/BZA/BCA open coil carriers all Screw Couplings and Ermewa and Ralion wagon fleet of SNCF style wagons again with 3 link couplings, as a company we have outlawed the practice of entering in between wagons to hook up the couplings to prevent crushing injuries and have used shunting poles forever. Our loco fleet too is solely a 3 link chain coupling including our brand new Hybrid Claytons locos so everything we do requires a pole. Once again i appreciate the help being offered but could still do with finding an international supplier of shunting poles, I cant believe we are the only company worldwide that uses a pole for this purpose. Just for info too, we have no need to tie the air brakes in to our wagons this is done by DB Schenker when we hand the traffic over to them in the knuckle yard

 

[ac6000cw]

Once again i appreciate the help being offered but could still do with finding an international supplier of shunting poles, I cant believe we are the only company worldwide that uses a pole for this purpose.

In terms of finding out which countries use which coupling systems, try this Wikipedia page - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Railway_coupling_by_country

UK-style buffer and hook couplings are called 'English' couplers on that page, so search it for 'English'. They are basically used in the UK, Ireland and most mainland European countries, plus some other countries to some extent, so I suspect they're the only countries likely to have anyone manufacturing shunting poles (assuming their railways use them, of course).

 

[XAM2175]

I have seen virtually the same style of device used in shunting in Germany in the past, but can't offer any help on suppliers.

 

[doxy1968]

have seen virtually the same style of device used in shunting in Germany in the past, but can't offer any help on suppliers.

That sounds promising, would you remember what rail network or roughly where you were in Germany when you saw it?

 

[randyrippley]

A couple of references online to museum examples which based on the trademark appear to have come from Spear & Jackson, or it's parent James Neil. No idea how recently though

trademark is the letters "SJ" surmounted with a red crown

could be worth asking whether they can still offer
note variously named shunt pole, shunters pole, coupling hook