2024 Tube Stock (Siemens Inspiro)

[Recessio]

The square windows are only on the earlier concept, they are not on the final design

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The earlier NTfL (New Tube for London) design was far more classy, I guess it matched with the New Routemaster (NBfL) and that era is now over

I agree, I much prefer the earlier design, especially the colour scheme.

I think one of the only good things about the New Routemaster was its internal design style, and I do wish that was being carried over to TfL trains...

 

[Wolfie]

I agree, I much prefer the earlier design, especially the colour scheme.

I think one of the only good things about the New Routemaster was its internal design style, and I do wish that was being carried over to TfL trains...

A bad pistache of 1950s design has no valid place in the 21st century.

 

[bramling]

A bad pistache of 1950s design has no valid place in the 21st century.

I must admit, elements of the new Routemaster aren't bad. I think having a distinctive bus for London wasn't necessarily a bad idea in principle. Just shame the execution wasn't wonderful, and the things were do damned expensive.

 

[TRAX]

I really like the grey in the Aventras, it's so much easier on the eye than the horrible clinical white all over the awful Desiro Cities.

I agree, the grey of the Aventra (especially the 345s) makes the trains look very cosy.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I must admit, elements of the new Routemaster aren't bad. I think having a distinctive bus for London wasn't necessarily a bad idea in principle. Just shame the execution wasn't wonderful, and the things were do damned expensive.

The Enviro400MMC is basically everything it should have been.

 

[Goldfish62]

The Enviro400MMC is basically everything it should have been.

The E400mmc is a stunning vehicle, but perhaps surpassed by the E400 City which has evolved to be the bodywork on the BYD E400

 

[Mikey C]

The Enviro400MMC is basically everything it should have been.

But without the open platform (and second staircase) which is the KEY element of the Borismaster design, even if it's no longer being used

 

[py_megapixel]

But without the open platform (and second staircase) which is the KEY element of the Borismaster design, even if it's no longer being used

That was just something that Boris insisted upon to pander to nostalgia. I'm not sure it was ever really practical to bring that mode of operation back. A monumental waste of money and resources.

 

[Recessio]

I agree, the grey of the Aventra (especially the 345s) makes the trains look very cosy.

Agreed. That's why I think the original 2024 design was nicer, the grey and the oxblood-tiling-esque colour makes a much less clinical, antiseptic look than existing tubes or the 700.

To me it simply looks more luxurious and higher quality than pure white in the mockup 2024 just shown.

 

[AM9]

Agreed. That's why I think the original 2024 design was nicer, the grey and the oxblood-tiling-esque colour makes a much less clinical, antiseptic look than existing tubes or the 700.

To me it simply looks more luxurious and higher quality than pure white in the mockup 2024 just shown.

Making aesthetic judgements on the decor of a static model is risky, and likely to cause inappropriate conclusions. It's a different situation with true metro rolling stock which is intentionally operating most of the time with relatively full loads. A personal preference for a subdued neutral colour scheme may look good in a showroom setting, but fill it up with passengers dressed in a plethora of colours, (even without considering crush loading), and the comfy warm 'plush' environment can look quite claustrophobic.

 

[Mikey C]

That was just something that Boris insisted upon to pander to nostalgia. I'm not sure it was ever really practical to bring that mode of operation back. A monumental waste of money and resources.

Getting a bit off topic here, but the open platform was the whole point of the Borismaster. Indeed it worked very well, having used them on routes like the 11

 

[bramling]

Making aesthetic judgements on the decor of a static model is risky, and likely to cause inappropriate conclusions. It's a different situation with true metro rolling stock which is intentionally operating most of the time with relatively full loads. A personal preference for a subdued neutral colour scheme may look good in a showroom setting, but fill it up with passengers dressed in a plethora of colours, (even without considering crush loading), and the comfy warm 'plush' environment can look quite claustrophobic.

The white decor looks quite similar to the 09 stock on the Vic Line. I would tend to agree with the view that it’s excessively clinical, and will appear all the more so with dark blue (as the Northern’s 95 stock also does).

That said, were we ever going to get terracotta given the Piccadilly Line colour? The problem with using the line colour is this does result in being tied down to colours which wouldn’t ordinarily be chosen.

Personally I much prefer the greys and pale blues found on stock like the 59 and 62 stock back in the day. But I’m not sure these would work well in modern stocks thanks to the materials used. A freshly overhauled 62 stock really looked classy.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The white decor looks quite similar to the 09 stock on the Vic Line. I would tend to agree with the view that it’s excessively clinical, and will appear all the more so with dark blue (as the Northern’s 95 stock also does).

That said, were we ever going to get terracotta given the Piccadilly Line colour? The problem with using the line colour is this does result in being tied down to colours which wouldn’t ordinarily be chosen.

They aren't now using line colours, are they? That blue is the same as the Northern stock, near enough, and the Northern is black. It used to use black but was refurbished to blue.

I personally very much liked the "line colour" thing and thought it was a shame when the Northern stock was refurbed to blue.

 

[bramling]

They aren't now using line colours, are they? That blue is the same as the Northern stock, near enough, and the Northern is black. It used to use black but was refurbished to blue.

I personally very much liked the "line colour" thing and thought it was a shame when the Northern stock was refurbed to blue.

They’re all over the place now. When the Northern was done the tentative plan was to do everything in blue. Then apparently it was felt the blue was too clinical, so the Jubilee emerged in grey (which ironically had been rejected back in the 1990s!). On top of that there’s the S stock in yellow, and which will never be able to properly match line colour. So a bit of a dog’s breakfast, which kind of sums up LU as a whole now.

But I think they are, sort of, back to line colours now. Then again, they might surprise us and a stock might emerge with brushed steel!

 

[Mikey C]

They’re all over the place now. When the Northern was done the tentative plan was to do everything in blue. Then apparently it was felt the blue was too clinical, so the Jubilee emerged in grey (which ironically had been rejected back in the 1990s!). On top of that there’s the S stock in yellow, and which will never be able to properly match line colour. So a bit of a dog’s breakfast, which kind of sums up LU as a whole now.

But I think they are, sort of, back to line colours now. Then again, they might surprise us and a stock might emerge with brushed steel!

Black would surely have been too dark for grab rails, if the whole point is making them more visible to the partially sighted?

Personally I really don't like the grey grab rails of the refurbished Jubilee Line trains, or indeed the excessive greyness of it!

 

[Bletchleyite]

Black would surely have been too dark for grab rails, if the whole point is making them more visible to the partially sighted?

Weren't they yellow with everything else having a black base, or do I remember wrong?

 

[fgwrich]

Weren't they yellow with everything else having a black base, or do I remember wrong?

A sort of Lemon Yellow, but wasn't the original moquette grey / black in colour? The Blue design with the coloured squares being from their first refurbishment (pre-barman).

Jubilee Line 1996 Stock Interior

Jubilee Line 1996 Stock Interior 07/02/2009

www.flickr.com

 

[Bletchleyite]

A sort of Lemon Yellow, but wasn't the original moquette grey / black in colour?

Yes, and I quite liked that touch.

 

[thomalex]

Black would surely have been too dark for grab rails, if the whole point is making them more visible to the partially sighted?

Personally I really don't like the grey grab rails of the refurbished Jubilee Line trains, or indeed the excessive greyness of it!

Black grab rails you say?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Is this one of those cases where PRM TSI is weaker than RVAR which applied before? I don't think that display would have complied with RVAR either.

 

[Mojo]

Is this one of those cases where PRM TSI is weaker than RVAR which applied before? I don't think that display would have complied with RVAR either.

PRM-TSI doesn’t apply to London Underground, Rvar are still the appropriate regulations. The original Jubilee line design wouldn’t actually have been compliant if built now (of course when constructed the rules were different hence why it was allowed).

As it so happens, in many areas the new design actually offers improved compliance against Rvar as the contrast is greater, although against the moquette and floor the contrast is reduced (https://tfl.gov.uk/corporate/transp.../foi-request-detail?referenceId=FOI-1187-1920).

 

[bramling]

Black would surely have been too dark for grab rails, if the whole point is making them more visible to the partially sighted?

Personally I really don't like the grey grab rails of the refurbished Jubilee Line trains, or indeed the excessive greyness of it!

From what I understand, quite a bit of work was done on all this, and the main factor is about contrast, as opposed to simply what colour is chosen. For various reasons there was a desire to move away from yellow, not least because (again from memory) after some work had been done it was found that yellow wasn't necessarily the best colour anyway.

Personally I tend to agree with the view that yellow should be avoided, especially if it doesn't even do the purpose that well.

The original Jubilee design I was never overly keen on, though it worked better with the original moquette - as built the whole interior was designed as a package. The moment the ghastly dark blue Tube Lines moquette appeared it made the interior look awful (same on the Northern Line), and the Barman moquette isn't much better in its original form, though some of the versions which use different colours look much better. So on this basis I prefer the grey, though it would have worked better with a different colour moquette IMO. As an aside, there was a reason why the aquamarine was used for certain parts of the original Jubilee interior, it was meant to represent something or other, can't for the life of me remember what!

 

[Mikey C]

From what I understand, quite a bit of work was done on all this, and the main factor is about contrast, as opposed to simply what colour is chosen. For various reasons there was a desire to move away from yellow, not least because (again from memory) after some work had been done it was found that yellow wasn't necessarily the best colour anyway.

Personally I tend to agree with the view that yellow should be avoided, especially if it doesn't even do the purpose that well.

The original Jubilee design I was never overly keen on, though it worked better with the original moquette - as built the whole interior was designed as a package. The moment the ghastly dark blue Tube Lines moquette appeared it made the interior look awful (same on the Northern Line), and the Barman moquette isn't much better in its original form, though some of the versions which use different colours look much better. So on this basis I prefer the grey, though it would have worked better with a different colour moquette IMO. As an aside, there was a reason why the aquamarine was used for certain parts of the original Jubilee interior, it was meant to represent something or other, can't for the life of me remember what!

That aquamarine colour choice was weird, as it didn't fit the rest of the interior or indeed the line

To me the grey handrails don't stand out very well, with the greyness of the interior other than the moquette

 

[thomalex]

Line coloured grab rails are all well and good until you get to the Bakerloo line and you end up with brown ones, which I don't think anyone ever asked for. And of course you've then got the District/Circle/H&C lines which it doesn't work for unless you go for a multicoloured forest of them. The (relatively) new Metropolitan line trains just stick with yellow. The Victoria line has half and half with line coloured light blue on the horizontal grab bars and deep blue on the vertical ones. The Jubilee seems to have gone all in with the grey but looks miserable inside. And Crossrail have plumped for black for some reason.

Personally I think they'd be best if they just stuck with one colour so it at least has some consistency with yellow or blue being the top candidates.

 

[bramling]

That aquamarine colour choice was weird, as it didn't fit the rest of the interior or indeed the line

Someone may remember what the rationale was for it, there was definitely some design idea behind it. It might have been something silly like emphasising the Jubilee Line Extension's connection with water, crossing the river four times. But I really can't remember.

Line coloured grab rails are all well and good until you get to the Bakerloo line and you end up with brown ones, which I don't think anyone ever asked for. And of course you've then got the District/Circle/H&C lines which it doesn't work for unless you go for a multicoloured forest of them. The (relatively) new Metropolitan line trains just stick with yellow. The Victoria line has half and half with line coloured light blue on the horizontal grab bars and deep blue on the vertical ones. The Jubilee seems to have gone all in with the grey but looks miserable inside. And Crossrail have plumped for black for some reason.

Personally I think they'd be best if they just stuck with one colour so it at least has some consistency with yellow or blue being the top candidates.

They tried this on the Northern and the blue was disliked, with it being felt that the interior was excessively clinical.

It seems this is one of those things which is surprisingly difficult to get right, hence my suggestion of going back to bare metal, but then this would likely run into accessibility issues.

I'd say a lot of the "clinical" issues are more to do with the Barman moquette, and in particular the original version of it which uses a rather dreary shade of blue.

 

[thomalex]

Someone may remember what the rationale was for it, there was definitely some design idea behind it. It might have been something silly like emphasising the Jubilee Line Extension's connection with water, crossing the river four times. But I really can't remember.




They tried this on the Northern and the blue was disliked, with it being felt that the interior was excessively clinical.

It seems this is one of those things which is surprisingly difficult to get right, hence my suggestion of going back to bare metal, but then this would likely run into accessibility issues.

I'd say a lot of the "clinical" issues are more to do with the Barman moquette, and in particular the original version of it which uses a rather dreary shade of blue.

I'm curious what the accessibility issues would be with just brushed metal? It has advantages as it's far more durable than paint and looks quite high quality in my opinion. You can have light grey as we've seen on the Jubilee line so why not metal?

 

[Dstock7080]

I'm curious what the accessibility issues would be with just brushed metal? It has advantages as it's far more durable than paint and looks quite high quality in my opinion. You can have light grey as we've seen on the Jubilee line so why not metal?

As shown above the 345s have aluminium centre poles.

 

[Mikey C]

Someone may remember what the rationale was for it, there was definitely some design idea behind it. It might have been something silly like emphasising the Jubilee Line Extension's connection with water, crossing the river four times. But I really can't remember.




They tried this on the Northern and the blue was disliked, with it being felt that the interior was excessively clinical.

It seems this is one of those things which is surprisingly difficult to get right, hence my suggestion of going back to bare metal, but then this would likely run into accessibility issues.

I'd say a lot of the "clinical" issues are more to do with the Barman moquette, and in particular the original version of it which uses a rather dreary shade of blue.

I've no problem with the Northern Line trains having blue, they look quite attractive to me and much better than the grey ones on the Jubilee Lines

The Victoria line ones look silly with the 2 different shades though, light blue to match the line, dark blue presumably because it passes the regulations!

 

[AM9]

As shown above the 345s have aluminium centre poles.

I don't think that polished metal gives anough grip, whereas the gloss paint used certainly has some sort of grip feel.

 

[bramling]

I don't think that polished metal gives anough grip, whereas the gloss paint used certainly has some sort of grip feel.

The paint also has anti-vandal properties. Though, as with the paint used on train exteriors, despite being extremely hard-wearing, it doesn’t last forever. LU seem to think that painting something in the early 1990s means it will still be good as new 30 years later, hence why the Bakerloo, Central and Piccadilly fleets are now in quite a state.