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Signalling history Canterbury West -Sturry - Chislet - Minster

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Islineclear3_1

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I can't remember if there was an old thread detailing the signalling arrangements around Canterbury West in the 1960s and 1970s but can't find it.

I am particularly interested in the signalling arrangements (and signals) between Canterbury West and Minster, how (and why) Sturry was downgraded to gate status in the 1960s and reinstated in later years and why Chislet box closed (did it coincide with closure of the colliery?). Was there a box at Grove Ferry & Upstreet and if so, when did it close and who took over the signalling? I have heard rumours of issues between the long block section between Canterbury West and Minster and was this the reason for reinstating Sturry (more frequent trains + HS1?)

If anyone could point me to any previous threads, I would be most grateful; otherwise, I would be interested in discussing here
 
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30907

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Can't answer in full but from the Kentrail and Signalling Record Society sites with a little help from W.Pedia:
Grove Ferry certainly was fully signalled, the LC there is now AHBs and I would assume there is no signalling in the vicinity.
Chislet Colliery closed in 1969, the halt in 1971, but a new signalbox had opened in 1962 so maybe it remained open for a considerable time afterwards - the problem with the long block section not occurring until closure occurred or was imminent.

This thread might help a little: https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...-sturry-and-minster-kent.146633/#post-2986640
 

32475

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My copy of 'Branch lines around Canterbury' by Vic Mitchell and Keith Smith states that at Chislet Colliery, the reception sidings were extended in 1962 and a new signal box was opened on 27th May of that year, a ground frame having been in use previously. The box was permanently switched out on 28th July 1984 and abolished on 14th September 1986.
Grove Ferry had a small signal box on the north west side of the level crossing. It closed on 14th March 1964
 

30907

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My copy of 'Branch lines around Canterbury' by Vic Mitchell and Keith Smith states that at Chislet Colliery, the reception sidings were extended in 1962 and a new signal box was opened on 27th May of that year, a ground frame having been in use previously. The box was permanently switched out on 28th July 1984 and abolished on 14th September 1986.
Grove Ferry had a small signal box on the north west side of the level crossing. It closed on 14th March 1964
Thanks - so Canterbury W to Minster was a single block section for 20 years. With only 2tph back then not a huge problem (in theory).
 

Dr Hoo

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Having worked in the area for part of my career it is worth mentioning that there was an outline proposal to single part of the line. (There were some papers about it in the office files.) I think that this had sprung from the 'Surplus Track Capacity [elimination] Grants under the Transport Act 1968 which led regions to 'bid' for the funding pot. Obviously this created a degree of 'planning blight' as it would be expected that rationalisation would be accompanied by re-signalling (probably from a panel) to maximise the savings. One of the ends of the single line would have been at Grove Ferry.

Chislet survived as a block post and had some attractions as a 'first box' for newly qualified signallers with nothing complicated and as a training location. It was often switched out during staff shortages. Unless there was a 'hump' in additional moves between Ramsgate and Ashford depots such as de-icers and test runs or major disruption it usually coped pretty well.

After 'permanent switch-out' there were some problems with break-ins, signals put back to danger and lack of emergency telephone contact in the days before radio so abolition was the obvious course of action.
 

yorksrob

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Having worked in the area for part of my career it is worth mentioning that there was an outline proposal to single part of the line. (There were some papers about it in the office files.) I think that this had sprung from the 'Surplus Track Capacity [elimination] Grants under the Transport Act 1968 which led regions to 'bid' for the funding pot. Obviously this created a degree of 'planning blight' as it would be expected that rationalisation would be accompanied by re-signalling (probably from a panel) to maximise the savings. One of the ends of the single line would have been at Grove Ferry.

Chislet survived as a block post and had some attractions as a 'first box' for newly qualified signallers with nothing complicated and as a training location. It was often switched out during staff shortages. Unless there was a 'hump' in additional moves between Ramsgate and Ashford depots such as de-icers and test runs or major disruption it usually coped pretty well.

After 'permanent switch-out' there were some problems with break-ins, signals put back to danger and lack of emergency telephone contact in the days before radio so abolition was the obvious course of action.

Now that is interesting. I'd never read about any proposals to part single the Ashford - Ramsgate line previously.
 

30907

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Now that is interesting. I'd never read about any proposals to part single the Ashford - Ramsgate line previously.
Nor I - out of interest, was there a similar proposal for Minster-Dover which was equally light on train services?
 

Dr Hoo

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Nor I - out of interest, was there a similar proposal for Minster-Dover which was equally light on train services?
Sorry, I can’t help with that. The Grove Ferry singling ‘gen’ arose from correspondence about the need to relay the track. One of the lines was in rather better condition as renewal on the ‘surplus’ line had been put off in anticipation of rationalisation. I was not aware of any wider South Eastern ‘strategy’.
 

Islineclear3_1

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Very interesting, thanks. Probably just as well the line wasn't singled considering the heavier traffic today (inc. the high speed). In my days living in Canterbury, I remember the through lines being lifted (c. 1977) and the long block section between Canterbury West and Minster.

What I am also curious about was the signalling arrangement at Sturry, which retained semaphore signalling for a time and in particular, a bracket Home and Distant on the up side just east of Sturry. There was also another Home at the end of the Up Platform and a Down Home before the level crossing (near a foot crossing from memory). If Sturry was a gate box at the time, how were these signals operated? Presume they were all electrically operated from Canterbury West?
 

Colin1501

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Very interesting, thanks. Probably just as well the line wasn't singled considering the heavier traffic today (inc. the high speed). In my days living in Canterbury, I remember the through lines being lifted (c. 1977) and the long block section between Canterbury West and Minster.

What I am also curious about was the signalling arrangement at Sturry, which retained semaphore signalling for a time and in particular, a bracket Home and Distant on the up side just east of Sturry. There was also another Home at the end of the Up Platform and a Down Home before the level crossing (near a foot crossing from memory). If Sturry was a gate box at the time, how were these signals operated? Presume they were all electrically operated from Canterbury West?
The home signals approaching the crossing in each direction were worked from Sturry gate box. The stop signal on the end of the up platform was worked electrically from Canterbury West, and the distant arm under the up home on the bracket worked in conjunction with this signal. I believe these signals protected the half barrier crossing midway between Sturry and Canterbury West.
 

Islineclear3_1

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The home signals approaching the crossing in each direction were worked from Sturry gate box. The stop signal on the end of the up platform was worked electrically from Canterbury West, and the distant arm under the up home on the bracket worked in conjunction with this signal. I believe these signals protected the half barrier crossing midway between Sturry and Canterbury West.

When I was a boy, I was always under the impression that the signals (at Sturry) were worked by the box. Then I read somewhere that Sturry was downgraded to a gate box in the 1960s and wondered how this could be if it was working some of the mechanical signals.

So if Canterbury West operated the stop signal at the end of the Up platform and it's Distant, does anyone know/remember the signal names?

What was the name of the Home signal below the Distant (on the bracket) on the Up side and the Home signal on the Down line on the approach to Sturry? Which signal box operated these?
 

30907

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When I was a boy, I was always under the impression that the signals (at Sturry) were worked by the box. Then I read somewhere that Sturry was downgraded to a gate box in the 1960s and wondered how this could be if it was working some of the mechanical signals.

So if Canterbury West operated the stop signal at the end of the Up platform and it's Distant, does anyone know/remember the signal names?

What was the name of the Home signal below the Distant (on the bracket) on the Up side and the Home signal on the Down line on the approach to Sturry? Which signal box operated these?
Gate boxes routinely worked signals.
Assuming you mean above not below, then normal signalling practice would be that both Homes (and their distants) were worked by Sturry Gates. This is theory on my part, as I didn't know the area then.
 

Gloster

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I don’t know the area either, but if I have understood #11, then the point is that gate boxes are not block posts, i.e. they do not control the safe spacing of trains, they are only concerned with ensuring that the level-crossing is operated safely. They can have semaphore signals (Home and Distant) to indicate to the driver whether the crossing is clear. There are locations where a signal (or signals) operated by a gate box may also be operated by a block post, when both have to pull their lever to clear the signal, but this does not appear to be one of them. The stop signal on the end of the up platform may have been one of those signalling oddities that turned up from time to time. I hope I haven’t confused things.
 

Colin1501

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When I was a boy, I was always under the impression that the signals (at Sturry) were worked by the box. Then I read somewhere that Sturry was downgraded to a gate box in the 1960s and wondered how this could be if it was working some of the mechanical signals.

So if Canterbury West operated the stop signal at the end of the Up platform and it's Distant, does anyone know/remember the signal names?

What was the name of the Home signal below the Distant (on the bracket) on the Up side and the Home signal on the Down line on the approach to Sturry? Which signal box operated these?

As per my previous post #10, the stop signals approaching the crossing in each direction were operated by Sturry gate box, and were probably labelled 'up home' and 'down home'. There was a distant in rear of each of these signals - when I knew the area these were both colour-lights. As per post #13 above, these signals formed no part of the block signalling - their function was solely to protect the crossing. The block section was Canterbury West to Minster.

The signal on the end of the up platform, together with its distant under Sturry's up home, was operated by Canterbury West. Perhaps somebody familiar with that box will know what they were called.
 
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