Skegness 2021 replacement for usual hst sets

[WesternLancer]

Unfortunately the issues with the drop lights required a steward by every door on the Skegness train in recent times, an issue that doesn't exist on any other HST service EMR operate. A Meridian doesn't help because the bigger issue is luggage capacity, which means the only option was for EMR to use the regional trains, since a Meridian doesn't actually provide much in terms of extra seats versus a 15x/170 or keep a HST for it, if they could get permission from the DfT and once you factor in the cost of keeping the train in service just for Skegness and all the extra staffing required to stop fools hanging out the windows then it doesn't make economic sense.

There's no denying it is a problem, but there's no good solution. Personally I'd have liked the HST to remain for its luggage space, however the behaviour last year has definitely killed that idea.

These are fair points. Of course fools have been able to hang out of train windows for most of the last 200 years without needing extra staffing, but DfT and it's related agencies have perhaps decided 'enough is enough'
I'd have thought one of the longer 222 sets would have done the trick myself to be honest. They are not that bad for luggage.

 

[LowLevel]

These are fair points. Of course fools have been able to hang out of train windows for most of the last 200 years without needing extra staffing, but DfT and it's related agencies have perhaps decided 'enough is enough'
I'd have thought one of the longer 222 sets would have done the trick myself to be honest. They are not that bad for luggage.

2 passengers killed in short succession on a railway that very rarely kills it's passengers nowadays was always going to bring about a reaction, particularly as the circumstances are entirely avoidable - nobody apart from enthusiasts (who don't matter in the scheme of things) is really going to miss slam doors and droplights, they're a performance nightmare.

222s are horrendous for luggage. Absolutely awful. The overhead racks fit next to nothing in them because of the tilt profile. Even a 158 is better because you can at least stack the bike space for larger cases. A 7 car 222 is a hugely inefficient train capacity wise.

I believe the "additional" summer Saturday trains are planned to be 3 x 156 for 6 coaches with around 435 seats, 3 big luggage vans, 3 large vertical stacks, some space between seat backs, 6 wheelchair spaces and large overhead racks, which will if anything be as good as the HSTs were.

 

[WesternLancer]

2 passengers killed in short succession on a railway that very rarely kills it's passengers nowadays was always going to bring about a reaction, particularly as the circumstances are entirely avoidable - nobody apart from enthusiasts (who don't matter in the scheme of things) is really going to miss slam doors and droplights, they're a performance nightmare.

222s are horrendous for luggage. Absolutely awful. The overhead racks fit next to nothing in them because of the tilt profile. Even a 158 is better because you can at least stack the bike space for larger cases. A 7 car 222 is a hugely inefficient train capacity wise.

I believe the "additional" summer Saturday trains are planned to be 3 x 156 for 6 coaches with around 435 seats, 3 big luggage vans, 3 large vertical stacks, some space between seat backs, 6 wheelchair spaces and large overhead racks, which will if anything be as good as the HSTs were.

Thanks - 6 car 156 trains are probably more like what is needed.

 

[richardderby]

Thanks - 6 car 156 trains are probably more like what is needed.

Well EMR timetabling & resourcing suggest 4 car maximum this summer, and 2 car units on sunny summer Sunday's.. Hmm not ideal by any means

 

[SteelWeelApeal]

How difficult would it be to hire a couple of CrossCountry HSTs? I imagine the main problem would be that they would be needed by XC, especially on summer Saturdays, but also providing trained staff. I expect these would outweigh any benefits.

 

[43096]

How difficult would it be to hire a couple of CrossCountry HSTs? I imagine the main problem would be that they would be needed by XC, especially on summer Saturdays, but also providing trained staff. I expect these would outweigh any benefits.

You can't hire something that isn't available!

 

[LowLevel]

Well EMR timetabling & resourcing suggest 4 car maximum this summer, and 2 car units on sunny summer Sunday's.. Hmm not ideal by any means

4 car max for the scheduled services and 6 car for the school holiday extras is I believe the plan.

 

[221129]

How difficult would it be to hire a couple of CrossCountry HSTs?

Impossible.

 

[bunnahabhain]

Unfortunately the issues with the drop lights required a steward by every door on the Skegness train in recent times, an issue that doesn't exist on any other HST service EMR operate. A Meridian doesn't help because the bigger issue is luggage capacity, which means the only option was for EMR to use the regional trains, since a Meridian doesn't actually provide much in terms of extra seats versus a 15x/170 or keep a HST for it, if they could get permission from the DfT and once you factor in the cost of keeping the train in service just for Skegness and all the extra staffing required to stop fools hanging out the windows then it doesn't make economic sense.

There's no denying it is a problem, but there's no good solution. Personally I'd have liked the HST to remain for its luggage space, however the behaviour last year has definitely killed that idea.

There was no issue with droplights and in 2020 the trains were manned by a Senior Conductor and two to three Customer Hosts and Chefs from the Intercity side displaced due to the withdrawal of catering due to covid. They were there primarily to encourage social distancing, face coverings and to prevent morons leaning out of windows. In 2019 there were issues with excessive foliage on the route which led to Network Rail funding 1 person per pair of vestibules to prevent anybody leaning out of the windows.

222s aren't passed for Skegness and no member of traincrew signs both route and traction, having discussed this with people higher above me the feeling was that it wouldn't be a feasible option to train members of staff up given the Covid situation, 170/180/360 training for drivers and guards, and various other issues for this year. The reason against HSTs given is that they are not PRM compliant, and the depot for them is no longer going to be an EMR depot from May 16th, and so it isn't viable either. The cost of extra staffing for HSTs is absolutely not the reason they aren't running, it isn't an issue at all because we have plenty of Customer Hosts and Chefs who enjoyed their shifts on them and it became a bit of a bunfight to get on them in 2020 because people enjoyed working them.

 

[WesternLancer]

There was no issue with droplights and in 2020 the trains were manned by a Senior Conductor and two to three Customer Hosts and Chefs from the Intercity side displaced due to the withdrawal of catering due to covid. They were there primarily to encourage social distancing, face coverings and to prevent morons leaning out of windows. In 2019 there were issues with excessive foliage on the route which led to Network Rail funding 1 person per pair of vestibules to prevent anybody leaning out of the windows.

222s aren't passed for Skegness and no member of traincrew signs both route and traction, having discussed this with people higher above me the feeling was that it wouldn't be a feasible option to train members of staff up given the Covid situation, 170/180/360 training for drivers and guards, and various other issues for this year. The reason against HSTs given is that they are not PRM compliant, and the depot for them is no longer going to be an EMR depot from May 16th, and so it isn't viable either. The cost of extra staffing for HSTs is absolutely not the reason they aren't running, it isn't an issue at all because we have plenty of Customer Hosts and Chefs who enjoyed their shifts on them and it became a bit of a bunfight to get on them in 2020 because people enjoyed working them.

All makes sense - when I went in 2020 there were no 'window stewards' on either of the 2 trips I took - just regular traincrew and the occasional announcement.
But it's clear that this year HSTs would not be an option for the various reasons you cite.

 

[Silver Cobra]

Anything that doesn't include Class 153s has to be an improvement

My last experience of travelling to/from Skegness in the summer of 2019, in a 5-car consist of a 153, a 156 and a 158, most of the passengers sat in the 153. The 158 at the rear of the consist was virtually empty (and of course, I chose to sit in the 158 )

 

[WesternLancer]

My last experience of travelling to/from Skegness in the summer of 2019, in a 5-car consist of a 153, a 156 and a 158, most of the passengers sat in the 153. The 158 at the rear of the consist was virtually empty (and of course, I chose to sit in the 158 )

I guess the 153 was closest to the buffer stops / back of the train at one key boarding point?
I recall some of the passengers when I was last on it did not look like they were geared up for lengthy beach walks...let alone platform strolls

 

[Silver Cobra]

I guess the 153 was closest to the buffer stops / back of the train at one key boarding point?
I recall some of the passengers when I was last on it did not look like they were geared up for lengthy beach walks...let alone platform strolls

Surprisingly no, at least with regards to Skegness. The 153 was the furthest away from the station exit. There is the possibility that the 153 lined up with the exits at Boston or Sleaford (I was on the service from Skegness until Grantham), but I can't remember unfortunately.

 

[WesternLancer]

Surprisingly no, at least with regards to Skegness. The 153 was the furthest away from the station exit. There is the possibility that the 153 lined up with the exits at Boston or Sleaford (I was on the service from Skegness until Grantham), but I can't remember unfortunately.

could have loaded up heavily at Grantham maybe (or others as you suggest)

 

[richardderby]

noticed the Summer Saturday extra now commences from Matlock at 07.10, and provides a direct service through to Skegness, handy, and extra coaches are added at Derby, so definitely a unit.

1S01 0710 Matlock to Skegness
Departing on 31st July 2021​

 

[NorthWestRover]

Pair of 20s with two extra coaches added at Derby lol.

 

[High Dyke]

noticed the Summer Saturday extra now commences from Matlock at 07.10, and provides a direct service through to Skegness, handy, and extra coaches are added at Derby, so definitely a unit.

1S01 0710 Matlock to Skegness​

Departing on 31st July 2021​

Indeed. Both Class 1 services to/from Skegness have been 2x156's, so far. Other 15x units may be used on other Saturdays.

 

[Wayne679]

I reckon they will replace it with a pairing of a couple of 153s!.

 

[Whistler40145]

I reckon they will replace it with a pairing of a couple of 153s!.

Dogboxes will be delightful if the temperature rises again