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Sleights Station Hole?

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Stevemca

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We own the old station buildings at Sleights. We have a clock on platform level which we can access the back of from inside the house. We also have another larger hole on the first floor which again goes through to the inside of the house. This has been filled in but we always have wondered what it would be for. We have several old photos which don't show anything being there. Does anyone have any ideas what the hole would have been for?

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pdeaves

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Thoughts that may prompt someone else's knowledge:
  • There was another clock (or the clock was repositioned) at one time;
  • The 'hole' is just a stonework repair.
 

Stevemca

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Thoughts that may prompt someone else's knowledge:
  • There was another clock (or the clock was repositioned) at one time;
  • The 'hole' is just a stonework repair.
We have thought about these options, however if the clock was there originally it would have been much too high for the platform. We know it's not a stonework repair as the hole is lined with timber as it goes through the wall. As mentioned we do have pictures probably dating back 100+ and they don't show anything.
 

trebor79

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Maybe the clock was there originally, but quickly moved to its current location? Perhaps even before the station opened someone said "Hmm, that clock looks a bit too high, let's move it down".
 

John Webb

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Do you know what the room behind the repair was used for in railway days? That may give a clue?

The high level suggests something that needed to clear trains. Early electricity supply? Telegraph wires? Either of these might have a wood lining to the hole - wood ducting was often used before the advent of plastics to contain electrical wiring.

Additional thought: Access to a large wall mounted lamp to illuminate the platform?
 
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WesternLancer

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We have thought about these options, however if the clock was there originally it would have been much too high for the platform. We know it's not a stonework repair as the hole is lined with timber as it goes through the wall. As mentioned we do have pictures probably dating back 100+ and they don't show anything.
I don't know the line but are the stations on this (or other lines nearby) architecturally 'themed' in the sense that a relatively standard pattern of station / house design was used in various places - including on other now closed lines - that might provide clues if you were to look at other stations built to the same pattern to see what is in that location, if anything.

You must have seen all the old pics out there but I chanced upon this and it def seems to show some change in stone colour or other 'thing' in the location where the creeper seems to stop, but I can't fathom what from the image:

Judging by the attire of the people on the bench that pic looks edwardian perhaps.

Lovely building / home by the way!
 

peteb

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If it's a square-ish hole you don't suppose there might have been a timber bracket beam fixed back through the masonry? Maybe for some sort of hoist or to support an early bracket signal perhaps? Have you tried the local Historic Environment Record, that may yield some more photos or information?

But the timber lining is intriguing. Did the station building have a telegraph office? The wires may have been fed into the building via a duct from the overhead lines but it sounds like quite a sizable hole not a slot.

But the timber lining is intriguing. Did the station building have a telegraph office? The wires may have been fed into the building via a duct from the overhead lines but it sounds like quite a sizable hole not a slot.

Sorry for duplicate post, itchy trigger finger.....
 
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Kingspanner

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Are we wrong is assuming that the hole is ancient? Maybe it was a relatively recent and short lived feature, making it difficult to catch in a photo hunt.
What is the workmanship like on the timber lining? Often the better it is, the older the work.

Edit, of course my first comment is ridiculous. The mortar colour is visible in the photo even when the hole isn't.
 

Stevemca

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Are we wrong is assuming that the hole is ancient? Maybe it was a relatively recent and short lived feature, making it difficult to catch in a photo hunt.
What is the workmanship like on the timber lining? Often the better it is, the older the work.

Edit, of course my first comment is ridiculous. The mortar colour is visible in the photo even when the hole isn't.
When we bought the house the hole was blocked up internally, sadly the previous owners didn't seem to care very much for original features! I am no expert but I would think the timber lining is fairly old.

Do you know what the room behind the repair was used for in railway days? That may give a clue?

The high level suggests something that needed to clear trains. Early electricity supply? Telegraph wires? Either of these might have a wood lining to the hole - wood ducting was often used before the advent of plastics to contain electrical wiring.

Additional thought: Access to a large wall mounted lamp to illuminate the platform?
We are pretty certain that the first floor room was actually part of the Station Masters House which is mainly the left part of the house but a bedroom extended over the ticket office below.

I don't know the line but are the stations on this (or other lines nearby) architecturally 'themed' in the sense that a relatively standard pattern of station / house design was used in various places - including on other now closed lines - that might provide clues if you were to look at other stations built to the same pattern to see what is in that location, if anything.

You must have seen all the old pics out there but I chanced upon this and it def seems to show some change in stone colour or other 'thing' in the location where the creeper seems to stop, but I can't fathom what from the image:

Judging by the attire of the people on the bench that pic looks edwardian perhaps.

Lovely building / home by the way!
Our house is very similar to the house at Grosmont (next station along the line) on the North Yorkshire Moors Railway. We have looked at that building but it doesn't seem to have anything similar, although they have got lots of equipment attached to the side of that house, so it makes it a little difficult to see.
 
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Stevemca

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If it's a square-ish hole you don't suppose there might have been a timber bracket beam fixed back through the masonry? Maybe for some sort of hoist or to support an early bracket signal perhaps? Have you tried the local Historic Environment Record, that may yield some more photos or information?

But the timber lining is intriguing. Did the station building have a telegraph office? The wires may have been fed into the building via a duct from the overhead lines but it sounds like quite a sizable hole not a slot.

But the timber lining is intriguing. Did the station building have a telegraph office? The wires may have been fed into the building via a duct from the overhead lines but it sounds like quite a sizable hole not a slot.

Sorry for duplicate post, itchy trigger finger.....
There is a signal box very close and there used to be a coal yard the other side of the tracks.
 

FQTV

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My first thought would be that it could have been a (unique, I think) NER duplicate clock, which could have been visible from the other platform on the loop when a train or trains were occupying either road.

I’m not aware of any other such installations anywhere else, even at ostensibly similar stations, though.

The telegraph suggestion seems plausible, but to further consider the clock possibility, what does the extant ground floor clock look like inside?

Apologies for the poor picture, but this is (I think) the inside side of an original NER ground floor installation.

15D8976E-CAB6-44F2-A3FB-06B4C397B8AD.jpeg

Are there any signs of similar cabinetry having been in place in your first floor room?
 

Meole

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There is a specialist LNER forum, called that, which may yield more info.
 

Bevan Price

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A 1975 photo on this site seems to show something "dark" near the location of the "hole":


Just a guess, but a few old stations used to be equipped with bells to warn staff or passengers that there was an approaching train.
 

WesternLancer

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A 1975 photo on this site seems to show something "dark" near the location of the "hole":


Just a guess, but a few old stations used to be equipped with bells to warn staff or passengers that there was an approaching train.
does look like something there in the 1975 pic. Signal bells does sound like a plausible possibility.
 

KevinTurvey

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It could have been for a flue for an upstairs heating appliance, perhaps, added in the 60's or 70's which were quite common. Do you have gas here or has gas or a new heating system been recently installed as the repair looks recent-ish. Is there any evidence of pipework holes in the floor or ceiling?
 

peteb

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Sounds plausible until one considers the timber lining which would combustible?
 

Stevemca

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It could have been for a flue for an upstairs heating appliance, perhaps, added in the 60's or 70's which were quite common. Do you have gas here or has gas or a new heating system been recently installed as the repair looks recent-ish. Is there any evidence of pipework holes in the floor or ceiling?
When we moved into the house the hole was blocked up on the inside, we imagine it had been like that since BR sold the station buildings in the mid 80s. When we started to renovate the house we opened up the hole, the outside repair hadn't been done at that point and you could see light through it! The house has fairly recently been repointed, as cement had incorrectly been used for some pointing in the past, the repair was carried out then.

My first thought would be that it could have been a (unique, I think) NER duplicate clock, which could have been visible from the other platform on the loop when a train or trains were occupying either road.

I’m not aware of any other such installations anywhere else, even at ostensibly similar stations, though.

The telegraph suggestion seems plausible, but to further consider the clock possibility, what does the extant ground floor clock look like inside?

Apologies for the poor picture, but this is (I think) the inside side of an original NER ground floor installation.

View attachment 83065

Are there any signs of similar cabinetry having been in place in your first floor room?
Nothing like that on the first floor, although that looks very similar to the downstairs room which was the old ticket office!
 
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Pinza-C55

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Where an NER station had an internal Master clock it would have a drive shaft which went through the wall to the external "Slave" clock face and the hole would be about a foot square and lined with timber about as thick as a skirting board. So the hole makes sense as a hole for a clock but no sense for it to be that high. The bezel of the slave face would be fixed to the wall with three screws.

I think the stations on the Tweedmouth - Kelso line had mountings for clocks as part of the stonework but these were never used.

Edit* Have a look at the postcard view of Velvet Hall station. It has the feature I mentioned plus a NER clock below it to the right of the door.

 

Stevemca

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Where an NER station had an internal Master clock it would have a drive shaft which went through the wall to the external "Slave" clock face and the hole would be about a foot square and lined with timber about as thick as a skirting board. So the hole makes sense as a hole for a clock but no sense for it to be that high. The bezel of the slave face would be fixed to the wall with three screws.

I think the stations on the Tweedmouth - Kelso line had mountings for clocks as part of the stonework but these were never used.

Edit* Have a look at the postcard view of Velvet Hall station. It has the feature I mentioned plus a NER clock below it to the right of the door.

That is interesting. I wonder if they intended to install a bigger clock when the house was built so it could be seen from the sidings opposite, but just never did it? Someone sent us a picture dated 1899 and there was no clock then.

We now own the original lower clock, we intend to have a new movement installed so it works again.
 

WesternLancer

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We now own the original lower clock, we intend to have a new movement installed so it works again.
well done indeed!
In case you were unaware, the Settle Carlisle Line had similar clocks - not surprisingly. The S&C Trust restored these not that long ago

Not sure who contractor was for that work but no doubt they could advise if needed. Details may be in back numbers of the Friends of S&C line journal also.
 

Pinza-C55

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That is interesting. I wonder if they intended to install a bigger clock when the house was built so it could be seen from the sidings opposite, but just never did it? Someone sent us a picture dated 1899 and there was no clock then.

We now own the original lower clock, we intend to have a new movement installed so it works again.

I think the most reasonable explanation is that like the clock mountings on the Tweedmouth - Kelso line it seemed to make sense to have a clock that could be seen from the other platform but then they realised that it was hard to see from the same platform. BTW the National Railway Museum has the original LNER Clock Record Books which show the serial number of the clocks allocated to every NER station so if you were able to have a look through them you could probably find the numbers of the clocks used in the station and signalbox. I have a photo somewhere of the station clock at Robin Hoods Bay in 1995 when it was intact but terribly neglected. I remember one of the interior long case clocks turning up at the Malton railwayana auction in the 1990s - it was from Weaverthorpe station and was absolutely filthy and it went for just £40 ! This was the NER clock at Widdrington station in Northumberland in 1979.
 

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Grumpy Git

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Pinza-C55

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Another photograph here with less ivy growth definitely shows something with a "roundel" shape?




Whatever it was had gone by 1958!


I found a couple of photos on ebay about 1910 period and under a magnifying glass it just looked like lighter colour stone where the hole had been blocked.
 
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