South Tynedale Railway Ltd Receivership.

[Hardcastle]

South Tynedale Railway Ltd. I have just noted on the BBC Cumbria News site that this railway is stated as being in receivership can anyone throw any light on this as i cant find any further details other than what's mentioned.

 

[Cowley]

Very sad if so.
I believe that they haven’t been able to run trains all through summer and I assume that they’ve spent a fair bit of money improving and extending the line this last few years?

 

[Paul Hitchcock]

If the receivership report proves correct it will be the first instance of a railway which was unable to open after lockdown, becoming insolvent. I fear it won't be the last

 

[A0wen]

I think speculation is unhelpful - there's nothing on the railway's website stating they have a problem as such.

Also the structure of the railway may be that the limited company covers certain activities, but the railway itself is operated by another body - it's website mentions 'South Tynedale Railway Preservation Society' for example.

Might be an idea if the mods lock this thread until there is some confirmation of the situation ?

 

[Cowley]

I think speculation is unhelpful - there's nothing on the railway's website stating they have a problem as such.

Also the structure of the railway may be that the limited company covers certain activities, but the railway itself is operated by another body - it's website mentions 'South Tynedale Railway Preservation Society' for example.

Might be an idea if the mods lock this thread until there is some confirmation of the situation ?

Yes agreed. I can’t find any more information either so for now it’ll be locked.
Please contact us if anything more comes to light though. Thanks all.

Edit - And here we are:

From the South Tynedale Railway Facebook page:

https://m.facebook.com/southtynedalerailway/

"The trading company STR Ltd is in administration having become insolvent, but the charitable company, the South Tynedale Railway Preservation Society that owns the railway is a going concern and we are working on a plan for STRPS to run the railway next year.
So it is not all doom and gloom, but nevertheless plenty of challenges ahead.
Anyone who would like to volunteer to help us through this time is welcome to contact Ian Millward our volunteer coordinator at [email protected]"

Thanks @paul1609 and @mitchf.

 

[grcwmaaron91]

This might help shed some light on the situation:

Five jobs lost as South Tynedale Railway operator goes into adminstration

South Tynedale Railway Ltd has gone into administration and five jobs have been lost.

www.cwherald.com

 

[Malcmal]

This just goes to show the importance of getting the business / company structure right for this kind of operation - as they clearly did here. If the assets had been owned by the trading company it would have been a much nastier outcome. I hope 2021 brings them good fortune and they can turn things around.

 

[2392]

Many Charitable Trusts these days are run as a pair if you will of companies. Depending on their turn over, they can get into decidedly grey areas when dealing with multi million pound businesses. As such a Charitable Trust shouldn't/wouldn't be seen to sully their hands with the "Dirty Business" of making money hence's the totally own operating company............... Pretty well all the big name Charity Shops on the "High Street" are run that way, by a PLC that is a wholly owned subsidiary outfit, handing over whatever in the way of "profits" to the charity the represent.

 

[fireftrm]

I heard this three weeks ago from someone in the know so it is definitely the case

 

[robkitchuk]

Was reported in last steam Railway magazine, its the operating company which is insolvent. The trust remains and volunteers remain onsite.

 

[WestRiding]

Hardly surprising. Its location cant help its difficulties. Cant for the life of me understand why it was built from nowhere to nowhere. Its fortunes would have been different had it started at Haltwhistle, with Alston as the long term aim.

 

[Monty]

This should help the WSR plc see sense and restructure accordingly.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Hardly surprising. Its location cant help its difficulties. Cant for the life of me understand why it was built from nowhere to nowhere. Its fortunes would have been different had it started at Haltwhistle, with Alston as the long term aim.

Alston to Slaggyford? A little out of the way for most folk, I would suggest.

 

[LSWR Cavalier]

I can understand why it was built, it is in a fantastic area
I travelled on the old line, c 1975

 

[WestRiding]

Alston to Slaggyford? A little out of the way for most folk, I would suggest.

Yes. We drove from Wakefield, took over 3 hours, for 3 trains in each direction. Not so much as a pub at Slaggyford, and Alston, it was quite attractive, but nothing to fulfil a day out there. Haltwhistle should have been the lines headquarters, and aim for Alston.

 

[Cowley]

This should help the WSR plc see sense and restructure accordingly.

God you’d hope so, I’m just not sure though.

 

[Shenandoah]

Was reported in last steam Railway magazine, its the operating company which is insolvent. The trust remains and volunteers remain onsite.

I wonder if this will affect its operating licence?

 

[AHoseason]

Hardly surprising. Its location cant help its difficulties. Cant for the life of me understand why it was built from nowhere to nowhere. Its fortunes would have been different had it started at Haltwhistle, with Alston as the long term aim.

Originally an attempt was made to preserve the whole line intact. But its down to money and opportunity. Given good opportunities the whole line can be reinstated. Haltwhistle yard recently received attention from the Society to clean it up, especially the public access footpath running along it

 

[Pinza-C55]

Hardly surprising. Its location cant help its difficulties. Cant for the life of me understand why it was built from nowhere to nowhere. Its fortunes would have been different had it started at Haltwhistle, with Alston as the long term aim.

That would make sense but I seem to remember that the track into the Haltwhistle bay platform still existed for some years after closure of the branch so the STR would have had to lease or purchase the area from British Rail which would have been expensive for a fledgling society. And Alston, as well as being a tourist town, was a ready made terminus with plenty of space. If they'd done it the other way round Alston station would probably have been a Sainsburys by the time they reached it.

 

[paul1609]

The STR predecessor was a standard gauge scheme to take over the whole branch from BR but permission for this was refused by the Government. Alston station and the trackbed as far as Lambley was purchased by the County Council.
The A69 Haltwhistle Bypass Road was built over the line about 1/2 mile south of the junction in 1996.

 

[2392]

The STR predecessor was a standard gauge scheme to take over the whole branch from BR but permission for this was refused by the Government. Alston station and the trackbed as far as Lambley was purchased by the County Council.
The A69 Haltwhistle Bypass Road was built over the line about 1/2 mile south of the junction in 1996.

Unlike other "Bypasses" when the Haltwhistle bypass was built, it was built in such a way as to be able to insert a bridge across the ensuing breach in the railway embankment.

As an additional note to my previous remarks about the Trading arm going into receivership. Quite a number these days of Charitable Trusts, run the "Business" side of their operations as a totally owned subsidiary. Mainly I believe down to the various regulations that have been introduced over the years. It also protects the charitable trust or it's management/trusties from any of a variety of business "nasties" should the trading side of things go belly up.

 

[Dunfanaghy Rd]

This should help the WSR plc see sense and restructure accordingly.

Dream on . I'm afraid that Somerset is 'different'.
Pat

 

[paul1609]

Unlike other "Bypasses" when the Haltwhistle bypass was built, it was built in such a way as to be able to insert a bridge across the ensuing breach in the railway embankment.

As an additional note to my previous remarks about the Trading arm going into receivership. Quite a number these days of Charitable Trusts, run the "Business" side of their operations as a totally owned subsidiary. Mainly I believe down to the various regulations that have been introduced over the years. It also protects the charitable trust or it's management/trusties from any of a variety of business "nasties" should the trading side of things go belly up.

Really? The A69 build demolished the embankment but the A69 is higher than the land. it would require quite a massive embankment off the end of the viaduct to clear the A69 by bridge. I think a dive under would be more likely but might be subject to flooding. Nothing is impossible but neither solution would be cheap or particularly easy. Have look on google maps. I think its the same category as the SPA valley railway having a reinstatement route through to Tunbridge Wells Central even though it involves crossing a Sainsburys Car Park, running through a pub beer garden, demolishing 2 aisles of the supermarket and then through a coach park to reach the tunnel.

The separate trading company was a requirement of the charity commissioners from (at least) the 1970s up until the early 2000s. It has since been relaxed by them as it incurred higher administrative costs and didn't really achieve their desire that it would achieve better governance. Most of the companies that were formed in that time including the STR and my own railway (K&ESR) have just maintained the existing structure to avoid re-organisation costs.

 

[2392]

Really? The A69 build demolished the embankment but the A69 is higher than the land. it would require quite a massive embankment off the end of the viaduct to clear the A69 by bridge. I think a dive under would be more likely but might be subject to flooding. Nothing is impossible but neither solution would be cheap or particularly easy. Have look on google maps. I think its the same category as the SPA valley railway having a reinstatement route through to Tunbridge Wells Central even though it involves crossing a Sainsburys Car Park, running through a pub beer garden, demolishing 2 aisles of the supermarket and then through a coach park to reach the tunnel.

The separate trading company was a requirement of the charity commissioners from (at least) the 1970s up until the early 2000s. It has since been relaxed by them as it incurred higher administrative costs and didn't really achieve their desire that it would achieve better governance. Most of the companies that were formed in that time including the STR and my own railway (K&ESR) have just maintained the existing structure to avoid re-organisation costs.

Ok it's been a few years since I've been that far west on the A69. But I came back on a "Mystery Weekend" away, along the A69 from Carlisle direction to Tyneside. The Bypass travels along the south side of Tyne to Haltwhistle, with a semi clear view across the river near the station. So you can see the branch leave the station rising in the process and crossing the Tyne by bridge with an embankment at both ends. As the track-bed/embankment continues on it rises, with a wide V shaped gap where the duel carriageway breaches it making it possible to fit a new single track bridge across it.

 

[paul1609]

I walked through there last year on my Lands End to John o Groats Walk. Down Pellmener Road and then across the Tyne Viaduct. Its locally known as the Alston Arches viaduct. Its a massive gap and would require a huge embankment to get over the A69. Unless its been widened since last year its only a single carriageway road with a local access track alongside at that point.

Haltwhistle

Haltwhistle

www.google.co.uk

 

[2392]

Wasn't sure off the top of my head if the bypass was duel or not. Though looking at the link to google the strip of lad is wide enough to instert a second carriageway as well as the possible railway over bridge. The major road network around Washington [New Town as was] was built in a similar fashion. In some places you'd have a horse shoe junction rather than a round about in some places under the main duel carriageways, with the second bridge being inserted years later. There's one main road that runs from the East side of Gateshead not far from me that is still 40 plus years on single carriageway occupying a duel carriageway tract of land into the heart of Washington. It links up with the junction off the A1m at Washington services, so there is a precedent for the bypass arrangements at Haltwhistle. It has at least been to some degree "future proofed" keeping the option open.

Unlike what has happened with some of the canals around Manchester and the M62. In some parts the motorway was built in such a fashion as to allow the canal to be re-instated, only for other sections to be bulldozed and built over with no provision for re-instatement..........

 

[Altfish]

Hardly surprising. Its location cant help its difficulties. Cant for the life of me understand why it was built from nowhere to nowhere. Its fortunes would have been different had it started at Haltwhistle, with Alston as the long term aim.

They wouldn't have got far if they's started in Haltwhistle, the A69 posses a major problem after about half a mile

 

[2392]

Hardly surprising. Its location cant help its difficulties. Cant for the life of me understand why it was built from nowhere to nowhere. Its fortunes would have been different had it started at Haltwhistle, with Alston as the long term aim.

They wouldn't have got far if they's started in Haltwhistle, the A69 posses a major problem after about half a mile

Not strictly speaking true, IMO Altfish. As they'd already started operations at the Alston end of the line when the A69 Bypass was built. So if as has been suggested they'd started at Haltwhistle instead the Highways Authority or who ever would have, had to build a bridge over the Bypass to accommodate the railway........

 

[paul1609]

I think that what happened was that a preservation society tried to buy the whole line direct from BR but was denied permission by the governement.
Cumbria County Council then bought the Alston station and the trackbed in their county which was offered to the society and eventually morphed in to the South Tynedale Railway. I don't think the section of the railway in Northumberland was offered to the society although the railway does now cross the border.
I think that the A69 Haltwhistle Bypass was probably one reason but there were also plans for the coal from the Plenmeller opencast site to be loaded on the branch although this subsequently went by conveyor to the main Newcastle-Carlise line.