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South Yorkshire Joint Railway - continued purpose

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Tom B

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27 Jul 2005
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I was recently back around Doncaster for a few days and was saddened to see the continued decline of the South Yorkshire Joint line - Harworth branch now completely defunct, and seemingly little to no traffic south of St Catherine's Junction. With the lack of functioning pits and the costly requirement to man Maltby S.B. (and possibly others), will the line have any future? It doesn't seem cost effective to keep maintaining it for occasional 'contingency' use.

On the other hand, the northern section seems to have *some* form of future - the new connection to the iPort, plus the investment of a substantial amount in the bridge at Edenthorpe.
 
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_toommm_

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8 Jul 2017
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5,846
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Yorkshire
I was recently back around Doncaster for a few days and was saddened to see the continued decline of the South Yorkshire Joint line - Harworth branch now completely defunct, and seemingly little to no traffic south of St Catherine's Junction. With the lack of functioning pits and the costly requirement to man Maltby S.B. (and possibly others), will the line have any future? It doesn't seem cost effective to keep maintaining it for occasional 'contingency' use.

On the other hand, the northern section seems to have *some* form of future - the new connection to the iPort, plus the investment of a substantial amount in the bridge at Edenthorpe.

Is Maltby permanently manned then, or is it like some of the branches that I believe only get staffed when need to e.g. Marchwood?
 

MisterSheeps

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12 Jun 2022
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263
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Kendal, England
what happened to the Middleton Towers - Doncaster (& Goole) sand trains that used to go this way to avoid complicated manoeuvres at Low Ellers Jc ?
 

Adrian Barr

Member
Joined
2 Jul 2020
Messages
152
Location
Doncaster
I was recently back around Doncaster for a few days and was saddened to see the continued decline of the South Yorkshire Joint line - Harworth branch now completely defunct, and seemingly little to no traffic south of St Catherine's Junction. With the lack of functioning pits and the costly requirement to man Maltby S.B. (and possibly others), will the line have any future? It doesn't seem cost effective to keep maintaining it for occasional 'contingency' use.

The only traffic at the moment seems to be occasional movements of new wagons from W.H. Davis at Shirebrook, like this one - https://www.flickr.com/photos/122599534@N05/52195550839/

Last summer there was a brief revival of coal trains from Immingham to West Burton (more photos if you click the left arrow) - https://www.flickr.com/photos/vinc2020/51372503372/in/photostream/

I read recently that the closure of West Burton has been pushed back from October 2022 to March 2023 in order to provide backup capacity to the National Grid over the winter. Depending how much this actually gets used, there could perhaps be some more coal trains running before it closes. https://www.edfenergy.com/media-centre/news-releases/west-burton-closure-update

In the longer term, the reason for retaining the line might be connected to a proposal to gauge clear the South Yorkshire joint line to W12 for container traffic to Doncaster Iport.
This is mentioned in a 2017 Freight Network Study, where it appears to score comparatively well in terms of projected benefits: https://www.networkrail.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/Freight-Network-Study-April-2017.pdf

Gauge clearance to W12 of South Yorkshire Joint Line between Doncaster and Gainsborough via Worksop, to
enable W12 traffic to access Rossington intermodal terminal. Potential cost range: £15m to £35m

I'm not sure how likely that is to actually happen, but the existence of this proposal might be enough for the route to be retained.

what happened to the Middleton Towers - Doncaster (& Goole) sand trains that used to go this way to avoid complicated manoeuvres at Low Ellers Jc ?

The sand train to Barnby Dunn on the outskirts of Doncaster used to run this way, but the main reason for the routing was to drop off a portion at the Rockware plant at Worksop. From what I can recall it only ran this way in the northbound direction, leaving the ECML at Retford, dropping off loaded wagons and picking up empties at Worksop, then running through to Barnby Dunn via the South Yorkshire Joint.

These days the Barnby Dunn train runs via Doncaster station, with access to the sidings at Barnby Dunn via a reversal at Kirk Sandall Junction.
Took a while to find a photo of this move, but here it is:
6E85 is on the Up Slow at Kirk Sandall, waiting to propel across the main line: https://www.flickr.com/photos/alanpadley/39073415254/in/photostream/
Propelling into the sidings: https://www.flickr.com/photos/alanpadley/39075872704/in/photostream/
Drone shot of the Ardagh glass factory as a train propels in: https://www.flickr.com/photos/robmcrorie/51274393794/
View from the level crossing right outside the factory (manual gates operated by groundstaff): https://www.flickr.com/photos/60628514@N02/13019523895/

The train also does the same thing on the way back, running round in the sidings and doing a rather surprising propelling move across all lines onto the Up Slow, before waiting its path and departing onto the Down Main.

Some photos of the old routing via Worksop:

Unusual shot of 66075 taking the flyover at Retford in 2008: https://www.flickr.com/photos/alanpadley/2776928559/
60057 at Worksop in 2004 - https://www.flickr.com/photos/75892080@N06/49124312772/

Ten years before, I found a couple of interesting photos of the Worksop traffic being detached at Retford off the Monk Bretton sand train: https://www.flickr.com/photos/75892080@N06/13985727688/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/75892080@N06/15541870166/

This photo, also from 1994, shows a full train to Barnby Dunn running via Worksop:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/58534838@N05/5532126117/
 

BR 45111

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28 Aug 2019
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163
Location
Sheffield
I’ve read on another forum whose contributors are generally not far off the mark that West Burton will be receiving 2 trains per day from Immingham , route thought to be SYJ but not confirmed. Hoping start up day will be in September, coincidentally the saloon is booked over the SYJ in September, it also visits Immingham and the Barton Line .
Operator thought to be GB as there the only operators with current route knowledge, as far as DB are concerned its thought that possibly one person at Donny , my mate is a driver at Knottingley and cleared out all the HTA’s from Worksop which returned via the SYJ , he’s another with route knowledge but possibly not many more.
i’ve long followed activity on the SYJ and have pictures right back to semaphore days at Dinnington contained in my SYJ album on my site on Flickr Marcus 45111.

Regards
Marcus
 

wallan

Member
Joined
27 May 2020
Messages
92
Location
Bedworth
I’ve read on another forum whose contributors are generally not far off the mark that West Burton will be receiving 2 trains per day from Immingham , route thought to be SYJ but not confirmed. Hoping start up day will be in September, coincidentally the saloon is booked over the SYJ in September, it also visits Immingham and the Barton Line .
Operator thought to be GB as there the only operators with current route knowledge, as far as DB are concerned its thought that possibly one person at Donny , my mate is a driver at Knottingley and cleared out all the HTA’s from Worksop which returned via the SYJ , he’s another with route knowledge but possibly not many more.
i’ve long followed activity on the SYJ and have pictures right back to semaphore days at Dinnington contained in my SYJ album on my site on Flickr Marcus 45111.

Regards
Marcus
Would The Brigg Line not be a more direct route between Immingham & West Burton
 

Adrian Barr

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Joined
2 Jul 2020
Messages
152
Location
Doncaster
I’ve read on another forum whose contributors are generally not far off the mark that West Burton will be receiving 2 trains per day from Immingham , route thought to be SYJ but not confirmed. Hoping start up day will be in September

That's good news, thanks. In the caption to one of those photos I linked, it mentions the coal trains to West Burton last summer delivered 30,000 tons; this was presumably intended to be a sufficient stockpile for the original closure date, but further deliveries would seem likely to keep it going over the winter.

I'm just looking at some of your flickr pictures, I especially like the ones from the 1980s, but this 2014 shot of a diverted container train at Maltby could be a taste of the future if they ever decide to improve the gauge - https://www.flickr.com/photos/92367454@N02/14866635910/

Those look like IKA wagons (which have a fairly low deck) with a mixture of 8'6" and 9' 6" containers, which would match the W8 clearance shown in the sectional appendix. Clearing the route for 9' 6" containers on standard container flats would require W10 clearance. I suppose the idea behind the proposed gauge clearance would be for container trains from the Peterborough direction to run via Lincoln as far as Trent Jns at Gainsborough and then divert via Retford Low Level and Maltby to reach the Iport. This would avoid the run round for Iport trains currently required at Hexthorpe, but I wonder how it would affect journey times overall?

Would The Brigg Line not be a more direct route between Immingham & West Burton

I remember some coal trains in EWS days running from Immingham and arriving into West Burton from the east end, either via Lincoln or Brigg, I'm not sure.

I think route knowledge / crew diagramming might be an issue via Brigg, especially if GBRF use Doncaster drivers. Some of the Immingham - Ratcliffe coal services take the shorter route via Lincoln but others run via Doncaster, I suspect for traincrew purposes (and also to allow loco swaps for fuelling). Nothing on the freight railway is straightforward, like taking a direct route from A to B...
 

wallan

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27 May 2020
Messages
92
Location
Bedworth
That's good news, thanks. In the caption to one of those photos I linked, it mentions the coal trains to West Burton last summer delivered 30,000 tons; this was presumably intended to be a sufficient stockpile for the original closure date, but further deliveries would seem likely to keep it going over the winter.

I'm just looking at some of your flickr pictures, I especially like the ones from the 1980s, but this 2014 shot of a diverted container train at Maltby could be a taste of the future if they ever decide to improve the gauge - https://www.flickr.com/photos/92367454@N02/14866635910/

Those look like IKA wagons (which have a fairly low deck) with a mixture of 8'6" and 9' 6" containers, which would match the W8 clearance shown in the sectional appendix. Clearing the route for 9' 6" containers on standard container flats would require W10 clearance. I suppose the idea behind the proposed gauge clearance would be for container trains from the Peterborough direction to run via Lincoln as far as Trent Jns at Gainsborough and then divert via Retford Low Level and Maltby to reach the Iport. This would avoid the run round for Iport trains currently required at Hexthorpe, but I wonder how it would affect journey times overall?



I remember some coal trains in EWS days running from Immingham and arriving into West Burton from the east end, either via Lincoln or Brigg, I'm not sure.

I think route knowledge / crew diagramming might be an issue via Brigg, especially if GBRF use Doncaster drivers. Some of the Immingham - Ratcliffe coal services take the shorter route via Lincoln but others run via Doncaster, I suspect for traincrew purposes (and also to allow loco swaps for fuelling). Nothing on the freight railway is straightforward, like taking a direct route from A to B...
GBRF have an early morning service from Doncaster - Immingham which is routed via Brigg
 

Adrian Barr

Member
Joined
2 Jul 2020
Messages
152
Location
Doncaster
True, it looks like 4R61 03:48 Down Decoy - Immingham via Brigg forms 6M61 08:00 Immingham - Ratcliffe (via the Doncaster avoider) and returns to Doncaster as 4E87 13:40 Ratcliffe - Down Decoy.

I suppose you could start a set from Doncaster, run from Immingham to West Burton via Brigg, then return to Doncaster via Maltby, although it might require route learning the short section between Trent Jns and West Burton and assumes the junctions at the east end of West Burton are still in working order.

One consideration might be the need to open signal boxes, there seem to be a few on the Brigg line but I don't know how many need to be open to run trains over it. I get the impression the route is only open on nights (and Saturday day shifts) normally - that 4R61 seems to be the only regular freight unless there are engineering diversions. Then coming the other way you've got Maltby box to open...

My hunch is that if they ran via the South Yorkshire Joint Line last year they'll do the same this year. The route via Brigg is certainly a lot shorter, something like 35 miles vs 87 miles, but operational simplicity usually seems to win out over distance travelled.
 
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