Southern Timetable Change September 2022

[Minstral25]

It’s been flagged across several threads that there will be a major change to Southern Metro Services from Sunday Sept 4th which is appearing in RealTimeTrains.
It is just 6 weeks away, however as of yet Southern have not announced it to Passengers or Stakeholders. Will it be happening or will it be delayed?

Changes include: -
London Bridge to Caterham via Tulse Hill only runs to East Croydon
London Bridge to East Croydon via Sydenham withdrawn
London Bridge to Beckenham Jnct returns to half hourly
London Bridge to London Victoria reinstated
London Victoria to Horsham/Dorking semi-fast withdrawn
London Victoria to Epsom stopping extended to Horsham/Dorking

There may be more and I recall there are changes along the coast too

 

[OliverH68]

1Pxx Caterham/Tattenham - London Bridge calls additionally Norwood Jnc. Runs later throughout in old 2Jxx path (leaves Purley xx15/xx45) towards London. Runs later also from London Bridge (xx10/xx40) but does actually run earlier from East Croydon.

 

[Lewlew]

Any hints of a return for the Milton Keynes services?

 

[JonathanH]

Any hints of a return for the Milton Keynes services?

No. There are no such hints. It won't be too long before the traincrew lose route knowledge.

 

[mister-sparky]

Any hints of a return for the Milton Keynes services?

Doubt they’ll ever return

 

[Peregrine 4903]

It’s been flagged across several threads that there will be a major change to Southern Metro Services from Sunday Sept 4th which is appearing in RealTimeTrains.
It is just 6 weeks away, however as of yet Southern have not announced it to Passengers or Stakeholders. Will it be happening or will it be delayed?

Changes include: -
London Bridge to Caterham via Tulse Hill only runs to East Croydon
London Bridge to East Croydon via Sydenham withdrawn
London Bridge to Beckenham Jnct returns to half hourly
London Bridge to London Victoria reinstated
London Victoria to Horsham/Dorking semi-fast withdrawn
London Victoria to Epsom stopping extended to Horsham/Dorking

There may be more and I recall there are changes along the coast too

The timetable change is defintley happening.

Basically rebalances some of Southern's metro resources more evenly.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

I can see some of Southern’s London commuters from Ewell - Dorking switching to SWR over this change. The additional stops are sure to make SWR at least ten to fifteen minutes faster. Southern have the air-conditioning, charging points, armrests, Wi-Fi and tables of course though

 

[Benjaminmorgan]

No direct service from Crystal Palace to Norwood Junction and West Croydon on Sunday from September?

 

[Amos]

Doubt they’ll ever return

I was recently told by LNWR staff at Milton Keynes that this service will not return

 

[louis97]

No direct service from Crystal Palace to Norwood Junction and West Croydon on Sunday from September?

Correct, also Monday to Saturday after 2000 (apart from some trains post midnight)

 

[Southern Dvr]

I was recently told by LNWR staff at Milton Keynes that this service will not return

Apparently Network Rail and DfT have been very clear that the GTR services will not run north of Hemel. The drivers wanted to go to at least Tring but were told it’s not happening.

 

[boiledbeans2]

I can see some of Southern’s London commuters from Ewell - Dorking switching to SWR over this change. The additional stops are sure to make SWR at least ten to fifteen minutes faster. Southern have the air-conditioning, charging points, armrests, Wi-Fi and tables of course though

SWR has already halved their Epsom branch services since COVID. I don't use the line on weekdays, but on weekends, the SWR services are very busy. Especially on Sundays when they use 4-car 455s on Guildford via Epsom.

 

[DazCM]

Had a message on my local Facebook group (private group so can’t link to it) from some local councillors who’ve met with GTR and say that the 1920 Victoria to E Grinstead returns on 5th Sep.

 

[bicbasher]

Penge West and Anerley will only be served by a handful of Southern services for the majority of the day. London Overground will be the main TOC serving those two stations.

New Cross Gate to Sydenham lose their direct service to East Croydon, but get their 2tph service to Victoria reinstated, while keeping the 2tph to London Bridge at different times to now.

 

[Southern Dvr]

Penge West and Anerley will only be served by a handful of Southern services for the majority of the day. London Overground will be the main TOC serving those two stations.

New Cross Gate to Sydenham lose their direct service to East Croydon, but get their 2tph service to Victoria reinstated, while keeping the 2tph to London Bridge at different times to now.

Penge West and Anerley will not be served by Southern, except for one train to E Croydon circa 0045, a Caterham around 0500 and one train to London Bridge around 0530.

 

[Minstral25]

Had a message on my local Facebook group (private group so can’t link to it) from some local councillors who’ve met with GTR and say that the 1920 Victoria to E Grinstead returns on 5th Sep.

East Grinstead is half hourly most of the day except between 9am and 2pm plus after 8pm

 

[Basil Jet]

Penge West and Anerley will not be served by Southern, except for one train to E Croydon circa 0045, a Caterham around 0500 and one train to London Bridge around 0530.

Post Elizabeth Line, a service to Canada Water and Whitechapel is probably a lot more useful than a service to London Bridge.

 

[87015]

Penge West and Anerley will not be served by Southern, except for one train to E Croydon circa 0045, a Caterham around 0500 and one train to London Bridge around 0530.

And no service when the line at West Croydon is closed but London Bridge to East Croydon open.

 

[JonathanH]

And no service when the line at West Croydon is closed but London Bridge to East Croydon open.

In the past it has always been Southern who put on the replacement buses when the slow lines are closed. Presumably London Overground will have to do it now.

 

[ctrh136]

I also think that the link between Tulse Hill and West Norwood is severed on Sundays.
A few updates to the OP:
London Bridge to Beckenham Junction is only hourly in the evenings.
The Victoria - Epsom peak services are still running.
The Uckfield line returns to hourly except for the 2207 from London Bridge.

 

[Robski_]

There are also service reductions on TLGN, 1tph Kings Cross-Cambridge to be curtailed at Letchworth off peak Mon-Sat from September (meaning back to 1tph off peak for Foxton/Meldreth/Shepreth). Sunday service pattern remains unchanged, but first trains on Sunday on this route will be significantly later - Knebworth will have its first train at 08:41 (compared with the current 06:44).

Also of note that in the evenings, 9Sxx trains will stop (northbound only) at Welwyn Garden City, Welwyn North and Knebworth between 21:00 and midnight, presumably due to a shortage of train crew to run the full KGX-Letchworth/Cambridge service through to the end of service.

 

[bicbasher]

In the past it has always been Southern who put on the replacement buses when the slow lines are closed. Presumably London Overground will have to do it now.

They have done it only once before. Unlike Southern, London Overground use iBus to tell passengers when the RRB arrives.

It's worth noting that the RRB's don't serve Penge West. At one point there was a shuttle service from Sydenham to Penge West using single decker vehicles which can reach the side road the station is on, but otherwise there's a decent enough bus service between the two stations or a short walk to Anerley which resolves the issue.

 

[Bishopstone]

Looks as though the Brighton-Hove shuttles are back, Monday-Friday.

 

[paul1609]

Looks as though the Brighton-Hove shuttles are back, Monday-Friday.

Don't really see the point in the Brighton-Hove Shuttles now the Vic to Littlehampton service stops at Preston Park tbh.

 

[bramling]

There are also service reductions on TLGN, 1tph Kings Cross-Cambridge to be curtailed at Letchworth off peak Mon-Sat from September (meaning back to 1tph off peak for Foxton/Meldreth/Shepreth). Sunday service pattern remains unchanged, but first trains on Sunday on this route will be significantly later - Knebworth will have its first train at 08:41 (compared with the current 06:44).

Also of note that in the evenings, 9Sxx trains will stop (northbound only) at Welwyn Garden City, Welwyn North and Knebworth between 21:00 and midnight, presumably due to a shortage of train crew to run the full KGX-Letchworth/Cambridge service through to the end of service.

Whilst the Letchworth change is something I always thought would happen (and to be fair does actually make some sense - there really doesn’t need to be 4tph of local services between Hitchin and Cambridge), the change to the 9Sxx services seems to be another thing which will have the practical effect of making the service more unattractive. It’s almost as though they *want* to drive people away.

And just to please a few people, it appears 700/0s make a return to Ely, albeit just one return trip in the evening.

Also looks like a few formation / stock changes to early morning and late evening GN services. Some of the 700/1s that run to/from King’s Cross look to be changing, in some cases down to 700/0, 2x387 or 1x387.

 

[Tomp94]

Are we going to see any improvements on the West Coast way services?
For example, making the Brighton - Southampton service a semi-fast service again, instead of the current all stations to Chichester.
Or the same with the Brighton - Portsmouth service
These services seem to be rammed, especially at weekends!
Dare I ask if the Brighton - Portsmouth service will no longer use the 313 bangers during weekdays? Could have sworn that pre covid they were all 377s during the week?

My guess to all of the above would be a resounding no!

 

[Minstral25]

Was just looking at the Tonbridge line from September, the peak unit that currently goes off from Tonbridge line services to sit in Three Bridges sidings through the middle of the day, will from September heading off to Lovers Walk instead. As it is the unit that starts from Selhurst in the morning is this a way of swapping units between the depots or does it means some three car 377s are going back to Lovers Walk?

Or are they getting rid of the daytime cleaning crew at Three bridges to save costs?

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

Whilst the Letchworth change is something I always thought would happen (and to be fair does actually make some sense - there really doesn’t need to be 4tph of local services between Hitchin and Cambridge), the change to the 9Sxx services seems to be another thing which will have the practical effect of making the service more unattractive. It’s almost as though they *want* to drive people away.

And just to please a few people, it appears 700/0s make a return to Ely, albeit just one return trip in the evening.

Closing Welwyn Nth would be helpful of course to managing ECML!

 

[JonathanH]

Are we going to see any improvements on the West Coast way services?
For example, making the Brighton - Southampton service a semi-fast service again, instead of the current all stations to Chichester.
Or the same with the Brighton - Portsmouth service
These services seem to be rammed, especially at weekends!
Dare I ask if the Brighton - Portsmouth service will no longer use the 313 bangers during weekdays? Could have sworn that pre covid they were all 377s during the week?

My guess to all of the above would be a resounding no!

Not in September.

Having Brighton to Hove shuttles back might give a bit more of an option for journeys from Brighton to the primary stations out to Angmering which will help with passenger loadings on the Southampton and Portsmouth services.

 

[Class 466]

Was just looking at the Tonbridge line from September, the peak unit that currently goes off from Tonbridge line services to sit in Three Bridges sidings through the middle of the day, will from September heading off to Lovers Walk instead. As it is the unit that starts from Selhurst in the morning is this a way of swapping units between the depots or does it means some three car 377s are going back to Lovers Walk?

Or are they getting rid of the daytime cleaning crew at Three bridges to save costs?

From September 4x 3 car 377 will be based at Lovers Walk and work:

5H06 0510 Lovers Walk T&R.S.M.D to Littlehampton
1H07 0616 Littlehampton to London Victoria
1F10 0824 London Victoria to Eastbourne
5G90 1001 Eastbourne to Lovers Walk T&R.S.M.D

They also come out in the evening I believe.