Split ticketing websites and Apps not making clear the need to remain on same train

[Killingworth]

Twice recently I've seen passengers leave a westbound Hope Valley service at Dore & Totley and watch the train draw away from the single platform with no other trains in sight. Both were wanting Hope to walk to Castleton. Oops. A threesome were happy to go for a walk in the local area instead.

The single walker showed me his phone with a journey from Cambridge clearly suggesting changes at both Sheffield and Dore. The one he'd just tried to make showed him arriving and departing at the same time! I'd have thought little of it if it hadn't been the second time in a month. After I'd sent him to get a quick lunch I realised I hadn't noted which App he was using.

I don't suppose any regular App user can find one that will plot a journey from Cambridge to Hope (Derbyshire) that implies a change at Dore & Totley?

We're used to people coming from Manchester to catch a TM Travel 218 bus for Chatsworth. That combination comes from several Apps and it works.

All new traffic flows are welcome at present!

 

[Baxenden Bank]

Could they be using a split-ticketing site?

From my local station, a CDR to Dore & Totley and then a CDR onto a Hope Valley station is the way to do it for a day trip, rather than the significantly more expensive SVR (off-peak return) . Dore & Totley is the same price as Sheffield, might as well split there to boost your usage figures.

 

[Killingworth]

Could they be using a split-ticketing site?

From my local station, a CDR to Dore & Totley and then a CDR onto a Hope Valley station is the way to do it for a day trip, rather than the significantly more expensive SVR (off-peak return) . Dore & Totley is the same price as Sheffield, might as well split there to boost your usage figures.

Could well be! We need a bit of extra use at present. Commuting is only about 15% of that seen in January so far, but leisure is almost back to normal.

 

[LowLevel]

I'm going to go with a split ticketing issue. I'm always getting questions about whether they need to get off the train.

 

[Inthewest]

Google also is a nightmare for this.
Type in any station and it'll start suggesting trains. It doesn't get its data from live feeds and thus is frequently wrong.

People rely on it rather than an official app/ website.

 

[TUC]

Google also is a nightmare for this.
Type in any station and it'll start suggesting trains. It doesn't get its data from live feeds and thus is frequently wrong.

People rely on it rather than an official app/ website.

Although Google Maps is pretty good at finding quickest journeys by suggesting interchanges not found on rail sites. Agreed it doesn't have live data, but it does update with planned timetable changes quickly. A combination of it, plus a separate site on the day to check live times can be very helpful.

 

[Killingworth]

Trainpal shows the situation I encountered (including the specific train involved) with several split ticketing options including a break at Dore, although all say to stay on train. That wasn't the display I was shown but proves how it happens.

 

[yorkie]

The single walker showed me his phone with a journey from Cambridge clearly suggesting changes at both Sheffield and Dore. The one he'd just tried to make showed him arriving and departing at the same time!

Could they be using a split-ticketing site?

I don't think this could be linked to split ticketing, if the journey planner clearly showed a change at Dore with arrival & departure at the same time.

The split ticketing sites that I've seen do clearly state the itinerary.

What is described would be a major accreditation fail.

Google also is a nightmare for this....

Is more likely.

Without more information (a screenshot would be good), it's not really possible to comment.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Although Google Maps is pretty good at finding quickest journeys by suggesting interchanges not found on rail sites. Agreed it doesn't have live data, but it does update with planned timetable changes quickly. A combination of it, plus a separate site on the day to check live times can be very helpful.

It does have live data for buses (except Stagecoach for some reason). A project to get live rail data in would be very valuable.

 

[SargeNpton]

I can think of one train planning data error that might be behind this, but without knowing which train was involved and on which date I'm unable to confirm that that is the cause.

 

[Killingworth]

OK, it's clear there are a wide variety of options for making the journey from Cambridge to Hope, Derbyshire to get the errant walker to Dore & Totley at 11.21 last Friday. All start at 7.57 and end up by taking that 11.14 from Sheffield. The prices vary a little to reflect some different routes. I can't replicate the live running information used by the traveller. I've looked to see what's available now for tomorrow, Friday.

So far I've checked Trainline (£51.50), Split Train Tickets (£40.20), Split My Fare (£45.72), My Train Ticket (£51.50), Raileasy (£58.20) and Trainpal, see below (£44.90). (Trainsplit would get me there for £39.60 but arriving an hour earlier or later using different trains.) Booking fees usually apply and more advanced, or later, booking may make a difference.

The proof, for me, that split ticketing is at the root of this particular case is this screenshot of the final part of the routing from Trainpal. Last night I found a site that showed short times for changes, including the one in this case, but I can't find it today!

The live feed screen showed to me by the traveller at the time wasn't this so I can't prove the one it was. It did clearly imply a change. He seemed a well educated and regular rail user and I too was surprised to see it displayed as it was.

OK, it's clear there are a wide variety of options for making the journey from Cambridge to Hope, Derbyshire to get the errant walker to Dore & Totley at 11.21 last Friday. All start at 7.57 and end up by taking that 11.14 from Sheffield. The prices vary a little to reflect some different routes. I can't replicate the live running information used by the traveller. I've looked to see what's available now for tomorrow, Friday.

So far I've checked Trainline (£51.50), Split Train Tickets (£40.20), Split My Fare (£45.72), My Train Ticket (£51.50), Raileasy (£58.20) and Trainpal, see below (£44.90). (Trainsplit would get me there for £39.60 but arriving an hour earlier or later using different trains.) Booking fees usually apply and more advanced, or later, booking may make a difference.

The proof, for me, that split ticketing is at the root of this particular case is this screenshot of the final part of the routing from Trainpal. Last night I found a site that showed short times for changes, including the one in this case, but I can't find it today!

The live feed screen showed to me by the traveller at the time wasn't this so I can't prove the one it was. It did clearly imply a change. He seemed a well educated and regular rail user and I too was surprised to see it displayed as it was.

Trainpal at first quotes £51.50 for next week with 3 changes (standard fare the same as East Midlands, Northern etc), but by staying on that very same train with the nonsensical 4th non-change it would cost £28.40! The following week it might cost only £26.20.

I haven't the time to constantly check all the varied sites to find the best options for all my journeys. They seem to move by the hour. That issue is another story. I've yet to find the site I viewed last night that showed warnings of short changing times where the same train was being used both sides of a 'change'. I found another example on a CrossCountry service between Sheffield and Newcastle splitting at York.

However, all this proves what a minefield this is for passengers trying to find the quickest, cheapest and most convenient trains.

I've also discovered how many shop fronts there are offering cheap tickets, and how many are clearly the same behind the differing facades!

 

[Inthewest]

It did clearly imply a change.
View attachment 83614

Except the part where it says "no need to change".
A classic example of people glancing, thinking they know all the info, then blaming someone else when it goes wrong.
See it regularly these days.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Except the part where it says "no need to change".
A classic example of people glancing, thinking they know all the info, then blaming someone else when it goes wrong.
See it regularly these days.

It's very, very poorly presented. A UI should be designed so you can derive the correct information at a glance.

The way to show a "ticket gap" would be to show it differently, e.g. keep the line continuous and put a picture of a ticket on it.

 

[yorkie]

OK, it's clear there are a wide variety of options for making the journey from Cambridge to Hope, Derbyshire to get the errant walker to Dore & Totley at 11.21 last Friday. All start at 7.57 and end up by taking that 11.14 from Sheffield. The prices vary a little to reflect some different routes. I can't replicate the live running information used by the traveller. I've looked to see what's available now for tomorrow, Friday.

So far I've checked Trainline (£51.50), Split Train Tickets (£40.20), Split My Fare (£45.72), My Train Ticket (£51.50), Raileasy (£58.20) and Trainpal, see below (£44.90). (Trainsplit would get me there for £39.60 but arriving an hour earlier or later using different trains.) Booking fees usually apply and more advanced, or later, booking may make a difference.

The proof, for me, that split ticketing is at the root of this particular case is this screenshot of the final part of the routing from Trainpal. Last night I found a site that showed short times for changes, including the one in this case, but I can't find it today!

The live feed screen showed to me by the traveller at the time wasn't this so I can't prove the one it was. It did clearly imply a change. He seemed a well educated and regular rail user and I too was surprised to see it displayed as it was.
View attachment 83614


Trainpal at first quotes £51.50 for next week with 3 changes (standard fare the same as East Midlands, Northern etc), but by staying on that very same train with the nonsensical 4th non-change it would cost £28.40! The following week it might cost only £26.20.

I haven't the time to constantly check all the varied sites to find the best options for all my journeys. They seem to move by the hour. That issue is another story. I've yet to find the site I viewed last night that showed warnings of short changing times where the same train was being used both sides of a 'change'. I found another example on a CrossCountry service between Sheffield and Newcastle splitting at York.

However, all this proves what a minefield this is for passengers trying to find the quickest, cheapest and most convenient trains.

I've also discovered how many shop fronts there are offering cheap tickets, and how many are clearly the same behind the differing facades!

There are several completely different concepts/issues that have been conflated in this post.

One - you appear to suggest that fares should not vary according to demand; this would need to be a new thread as you are advocating the abolishment of market based pricing / yield management in the form of Advance fares. I am more than happy for anyone to propose a replacement fare structure but it doesn't make sense to have that discussion in this thread.

Two - you appear to be suggesting split ticketing should be banned (or that all sites should offer the same splits?); again this should be a new thread.

Three - the UI issues with the Trainpal website specifically; I agree the UI is poor. Your title suggests that other websites / apps have this problem; which are these and do you have any screenshots please? or is it just Trainpal?