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St Pancras to Ashford Intl return, 2 adults 2 children, F&F Railcard

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dmncf

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I want to make a return journey from London St Pancras International to Ashford International using Southeastern High Speed. Two adults, two children, with a Family & Friends Railcard. Outward on Sunday 3 April in the afternoon, back on Wednesday 6 April in the afternoon. I don't want to be tied to specific trains. I'm seeing very different prices from different retailers, perhaps around weird treatment of Southeastern's Kids for a Quid offer. Can anyone please recommend what I should buy, what the price should be, and where I should buy it?
 
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district

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Your best bet for a flexible return ticket is an Off-Peak Return (£27.55 / £7.90 with FAM railcard), coupled with a Child Flat Return Fare for £1.00 for one of the children (the other one needs to be on the railcard to make it valid).

Total of £64.00 (£27.55 + £27.55 + £7.90 + £1.00).

You can get it from Southeastern - https://ticket.southeasternrailway.co.uk/journeys-grid/STP/AFK/2022-04-03T14:00/2022-04-06T16:00/2/2/FAMx1?departNow=no&realTime=no&searchPreferences=,,,&showAdditionalRoutes=no&showCheapest=no&tocSpecific=no
(Removed pending getting written clarification)
 
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alistairlees

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(Removed pending getting written clarification)
Your now-removed point was indeed correct.

The Kids for a Quid T&Cs hint at this:
https://www.southeasternrailway.co.uk/tickets/ways-to-save/kids-for-a-quid
  • Railcard discounts can be used for the adult tickets however these discounts cannot be applied to the flat-rate £1 child fare.

I also have found correspondence from Southeastern from 2018 that is unambiguous:
Note 1 – The Family Railcard children can all be £1, there is not a requirement for one to be at the child railcard discount price.
This from the pricing team, i.e. the people who are (or should be) definitive on this.

Apologies to the OP for the intial error. It would seem that the OP is best off buying these from the station on the day of travel, unless there is somewhere else online that will sell them as intended.
 

Haywain

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Your now-removed point was indeed correct.

The Kids for a Quid T&Cs hint at this:
https://www.southeasternrailway.co.uk/tickets/ways-to-save/kids-for-a-quid


I also have found correspondence from Southeastern from 2018 that is unambiguous:

This from the pricing team, i.e. the people who are (or should be) definitive on this.

Apologies to the OP for the intial error. It would seem that the OP is best off buying these from the station on the day of travel, unless there is somewhere else online that will sell them as intended.
I was going to make the same point but couldn’t find anything to back it up (while in bed on a Sunday morning!).
 

dmncf

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I tried buying the tickets at Victoria last night from the ticket office and the clerk could only get his ticketing system to offer the tickets at £64 (one child at the non-£1 price). He initially said this was because we were using High Speed, with no evidence behind this assertion, so I then got him to demonstrate that similar pricing happened on a different non-High Speed journey from Victoria. In rather circular logic, the clerk said that it must be the correct price because that's what the system says, and he couldn't conceive that the system (programmed by people who could make mistakes) could make mistakes. His supervisor came to assist/watch but walked away without giving any assistance or any verdict. I don't know if £64 is the correct price. If the F&F Railcard requires me to buy a child ticket alongside the adult tickets, and the F&F Railcard discount cannot be applied to the £1 child fare, maybe it is correct that one child must be at the non-£1 fare?
 

Wallsendmag

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I tried buying the tickets at Victoria last night from the ticket office and the clerk could only get his ticketing system to offer the tickets at £64 (one child at the non-£1 price). He initially said this was because we were using High Speed, with no evidence behind this assertion, so I then got him to demonstrate that similar pricing happened on a different non-High Speed journey from Victoria. In rather circular logic, the clerk said that it must be the correct price because that's what the system says, and he couldn't conceive that the system (programmed by people who could make mistakes) could make mistakes. His supervisor came to assist/watch but walked away without giving any assistance or any verdict. I don't know if £64 is the correct price. If the F&F Railcard requires me to buy a child ticket alongside the adult tickets, and the F&F Railcard discount cannot be applied to the £1 child fare, maybe it is correct that one child must be at the non-£1 fare?
Ask them if they know haow to use the fare override option.
 

alistairlees

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I tried buying the tickets at Victoria last night from the ticket office and the clerk could only get his ticketing system to offer the tickets at £64 (one child at the non-£1 price). He initially said this was because we were using High Speed, with no evidence behind this assertion, so I then got him to demonstrate that similar pricing happened on a different non-High Speed journey from Victoria. In rather circular logic, the clerk said that it must be the correct price because that's what the system says, and he couldn't conceive that the system (programmed by people who could make mistakes) could make mistakes. His supervisor came to assist/watch but walked away without giving any assistance or any verdict. I don't know if £64 is the correct price. If the F&F Railcard requires me to buy a child ticket alongside the adult tickets, and the F&F Railcard discount cannot be applied to the £1 child fare, maybe it is correct that one child must be at the non-£1 fare?
As I have said, it isn't correct. Try buying it from St Pancras (though I think that there's no SE ticket office, just the EMR one, there?). If you have no luck, pay the extra then write to EMR Customer Services to get your £6.90 back.

It's dofficult to sell correctly as the data has to be overridden for a particular set of circumstances.
 

Haywain

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The flat fare tickets need to be selected separately to the adult F&F tickets.
Try buying it from St Pancras (though I think that there's no SE ticket office, just the EMR one, there?)
There is a Thameslink office as well, plus the excellent LNER office across the road at Kings Cross*, so good options for ‘shopping around’.


*biased? Me?
 

district

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……..

Your now-removed point was indeed correct.

The Kids for a Quid T&Cs hint at this:
https://www.southeasternrailway.co.uk/tickets/ways-to-save/kids-for-a-quid


I also have found correspondence from Southeastern from 2018 that is unambiguous:

This from the pricing team, i.e. the people who are (or should be) definitive on this.

Apologies to the OP for the intial error. It would seem that the OP is best off buying these from the station on the day of travel, unless there is somewhere else online that will sell them as intended.

I was going to make the same point but couldn’t find anything to back it up (while in bed on a Sunday morning!).
Thanks both. I was sure I was correct, but couldn’t find anything to back it up and it wasn’t offered correctly on the SE website, so removed my post until I had confirmation to avoid causing confusion.

Ask them if they know haow to use the fare override option.

As I have said, it isn't correct. Try buying it from St Pancras (though I think that there's no SE ticket office, just the EMR one, there?). If you have no luck, pay the extra then write to EMR Customer Services to get your £6.90 back.

It's dofficult to sell correctly as the data has to be overridden for a particular set of circumstances.
They don’t need to use the fare override button - just sell it in “Anywhere to Anywhere”, not Journey planner, selecting the correct £1 fare.

(though I think that there's no SE ticket office, just the EMR one, there?)
Southeastern staff sell tickets on the Gateline at St Pancras (on the left hand side facing the platforms), using both an Envoy machine and a STAR machine.
 
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dmncf

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Thanks everyone for your advice.
I was in a rush at St Pancras so ended up buying the tickets from the EMR ticket office at £64 (one child at the non-£1 price), as I didn't have time to shop around.
I'll have to think how to find out if I am owed any money back. I doubt EMR is an expert on this Southeastern fare, so perhaps I'll contact Southeastern via its website so I can then refer EMR to show Southeastern's response. I wish Southeastern had this text on its webpage:
I also have found correspondence from Southeastern from 2018 that is unambiguous:
This from the pricing team, i.e. the people who are (or should be) definitive on this.
Note 1 – The Family Railcard children can all be £1, there is not a requirement for one to be at the child railcard discount price.
 

paul1609

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The flat fare tickets need to be selected separately to the adult F&F tickets.

There is a Thameslink office as well, plus the excellent LNER office across the road at Kings Cross*, so good options for ‘shopping around’.


*biased? Me?
Strictly speaking I think the LNER branded ticket office at King's Cross is operated by Dft Last Resort Trains Ltd. whose subsidiary company operates the Southeastern brand so they should be experts in their own groups products.
 

Haywain

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Strictly speaking I think the LNER branded ticket office at King's Cross is operated by Dft Last Resort Trains Ltd. whose subsidiary company operates the Southeastern brand so they should be experts in their own groups products.
The LNER office is operated by LNER, not some other company whose name you have made up.
 

paul1609

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Sorry you are right I got it wrong the correct company is Dft OLR Holdings Ltd who wholly own LNER and its brand along with Northern and Southeastern
 

Haywain

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Sorry you are right I got it wrong the correct company is Dft OLR Holdings Ltd who wholly own LNER and its brand along with Northern and Southeastern
And the staff are still employed by LNER.
 

alistairlees

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Thanks everyone for your advice.
I was in a rush at St Pancras so ended up buying the tickets from the EMR ticket office at £64 (one child at the non-£1 price), as I didn't have time to shop around.
I'll have to think how to find out if I am owed any money back. I doubt EMR is an expert on this Southeastern fare, so perhaps I'll contact Southeastern via its website so I can then refer EMR to show Southeastern's response. I wish Southeastern had this text on its webpage:
In the first instance yuo should contact EMR and explain how you were overcharged, and that you would like to be reimbursed. You should refer them to this page: https://www.southeasternrailway.co.uk/tickets/ways-to-save/kids-for-a-quid and this quote:
  • Railcard discounts can be used for the adult tickets however these discounts cannot be applied to the flat-rate £1 child fare.
If this does not get a satisfactory result then you should involve SE customer services.

If that does not get a satisfactory result then you should DM me and I will ensure that it gets to the right people.
 
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