Stagecoach Group (Group-wide matters)

[Snow1964]

Some election material prior to the Local Elections stated that an electric bus is to be coming to Stagecoach South's Aldershot depot to work on routes between Farnborough and Fleet (which is the 10).

Most likely that the said vehicle would just so happen to venture out on another route.

Aldershot depot works some services that run into Surrey, and it is known that Surrey have committed £49m over next few years (of which £32m is for introduction of upto 80 zero emission buses)

County Council boost to bring in cleaner, greener buses

A new scheme backed by £49m of county council funding, has been announced today (24 November 2020) to accelerate the introduction of ultra-low and zero emission buses in Surrey. The Surrey Ultra Lo…

news.surreycc.gov.uk

Maybe some operational piggybacking has allowed few extra to satisfy some local requirements and this is one of them.

I believe it has also been said that Peasmarsh (Guildford) depot is unsuitable currently as electric supply is at its limit (it can’t even charge the whole P&R fleet simultaneously, hence the static batteries), and is about half metre too low (river Wey occasionally floods it).

It is also factual that euroVI buses have had to be taken from Basingstoke and Winchester for 715 to Kingston (due to London LEZ) and they will presumably want them back some time.

So it seems that Surrey area is a likely recipient of new buses soon.

 

[Surreyman]

Aldershot depot works some services that run into Surrey, and it is known that Surrey have committed £49m over next few years (of which £32m is for introduction of upto 80 zero emission buses)

County Council boost to bring in cleaner, greener buses

A new scheme backed by £49m of county council funding, has been announced today (24 November 2020) to accelerate the introduction of ultra-low and zero emission buses in Surrey. The Surrey Ultra Lo…

news.surreycc.gov.uk

Maybe some operational piggybacking has allowed few extra to satisfy some local requirements and this is one of them.

I believe it has also been said that Peasmarsh (Guildford) depot is unsuitable currently as electric supply is at its limit (it can’t even charge the whole P&R fleet simultaneously, hence the static batteries), and is about half metre too low (river Wey occasionally floods it).

It is also factual that euroVI buses have had to be taken from Basingstoke and Winchester for 715 to Kingston (due to London LEZ) and they will presumably want them back some time.

So it seems that Surrey area is a likely recipient of new buses soon.

Have been having similar thoughts, Aldershot is only a short distance from the Surrey boundary at Ash.
Looking at likely placements for 80 low emission buses (over 4 years) the first thought I have is that any future operator/owner/lessor of Zero emission buses has to have the financial 'muscle' to fund them.
Surrey County council state "Operators can apply for funding to go towards the difference in price between conventional diesel, hybrid and Electric vehicles".
The major operators in Surrey are Arriva in Guildford, Stagecoach to the west in Aldershot(Hants) & Guildford, Go-Ahead (Metrobus) in the east, depot in Crawley(west Sussex), London operators RATP in Fulwell & Hounslow (both in Greater London) ditto on a smaller scale Abellio, Metroline & Arriva.
First just comes into Surrey with one route to LHR via Staines, Courtney (Reading buses)one route to Camberley about 3/4 mile inside Surrey.
Smaller operators - Rotala, just inside Greater London at Stanwell, Falcon in Byfleet, Whitebus - in Woking and Bracknell(Berks), Safeguard in Guildford.
There are other even smaller operators - Compass Bus, outstation in Dunsfold, Southdown PSV in Copthorne(just inside West Sussex), Reptons - Great Bookham.
Arrivas future ownership uncertainties means a question mark over their spending commitments.
I would guess that Stagecoach & Go-Ahead have both the will and Finances to part fund Electric or Hydrogen buses but political difficulties in that Aldershot and Crawley are in adjacent counties.
Would Surrey C.C fund RATP for buses on route 216 - Kingston - Staines via Ashford? (80% of route is in Surrey but the depot is in Greater London).

 

[ACSlater]

A friend of mine is going for a trainee bus driver interview at stagecoach. Has no bus driving experience. Does anyone have any idea what they’ll ask her so I can advise? Thanks

 

[Stan Drews]

A friend of mine is going for a trainee bus driver interview at stagecoach. Has no bus driving experience. Does anyone have any idea what they’ll ask her so I can advise? Thanks

I would expect them to be more interested in her customer service skills. They are likely to assess her driving skills with a separate assessment, which may or not, be part of the same process.

 

[ACSlater]

I would expect them to be more interested in her customer service skills. They are likely to assess her driving skills with a separate assessment, which may or not, be part of the same process.

Yeah that’s what we figured. Gone are the days where you turn up and have a quick chat with the gaffer and start on the Monday

 

[Cesarcollie]

A friend of mine is going for a trainee bus driver interview at stagecoach. Has no bus driving experience. Does anyone have any idea what they’ll ask her so I can advise? Thanks

Customer service experience. Punctuality/reliability/attendance. Cash handling/honesty.

 

[LUYMun]

Maybe some operational piggybacking has allowed few extra to satisfy some local requirements and this is one of them.

I believe it has also been said that Peasmarsh (Guildford) depot is unsuitable currently as electric supply is at its limit (it can’t even charge the whole P&R fleet simultaneously, hence the static batteries), and is about half metre too low (river Wey occasionally floods it).

It is also factual that euroVI buses have had to be taken from Basingstoke and Winchester for 715 to Kingston (due to London LEZ) and they will presumably want them back some time.

So it seems that Surrey area is a likely recipient of new buses soon.

Have been having similar thoughts, Aldershot is only a short distance from the Surrey boundary at Ash.
Looking at likely placements for 80 low emission buses (over 4 years) the first thought I have is that any future operator/owner/lessor of Zero emission buses has to have the financial 'muscle' to fund them.
Surrey County council state "Operators can apply for funding to go towards the difference in price between conventional diesel, hybrid and Electric vehicles".
The major operators in Surrey are Arriva in Guildford, Stagecoach to the west in Aldershot(Hants) & Guildford
[...]
I would guess that Stagecoach & Go-Ahead have both the will and Finances to part fund Electric or Hydrogen buses but political difficulties in that Aldershot and Crawley are in adjacent counties.

The electric bus is being funded by a local council from Rushmoor Borough Council in Hampshire, intended for the operations between Farnborough and Fleet, so I doubt they would be appreciated for the bus being spotted in Guildford. One would assume that this will be allocated within Farnboorugh for the purpose of pleasing that particular councillor.

I scratch my head whether the councillor purposefully meant an as for 'one' electric bus. Considering that the Pointer/Darts are due to leave service sometime in the next year, a whole fleet of single-decker buses (I place my bets on Enviro200MMC) will have to be their successors, so surely voters would've anticipated more? Note that the election leaflet mentions the route 9 having been diverted to additionally serve a Health Clinic in Southwood, which was the case back in March 2021. This is probably why the bus is being funded in the first place, so that the bus can primarily serve these towns to sustain passenger growth because it's electric.

It's also worth noting that this corner of Hampshire has less of a need to meet climate demands, so expect less from Stagecoach's Aldershot depot.

That being said, a new electric bus, despite the climate crisis and attempts to win back commuters onto public transport, would win no brownie points. Living in Farnborough, I would rather see an influx of improvements from Hampshire County Council to improve the reliability on buses, mainly road infrastructure works, as well as seeing Stagecoach try doing improvements from themselves - AFAIK there is a scheme to introduce a bus lane along Alexandra Road in North Camp as well as a relocation of Aldershot Bus Station, however, some regular buses (other than the Gold 1) to the Main Rail Station would be handier, particularly to residents living in far-flung estates who commute into London, which currently only few serve at early mornings and/or late evenings, sometimes only in one direction. And don't make me get started on Fleet!

(Apolgies if I waffled a bit)

 

[Surreyman]

Ref climate demands, an air quality report I looked at listed Aldershot with a DAQ (Days air quality exceeded) as 41 - the 9th highest on a list of 55 places in England. (For comparison the highest was Bournemouth at 62, the lowest Wakefield at 16).
I can't confirm the date of the report but I noted down the details in the light of the various LEZs/CAZs being planned or proposed.
I know Aldershot fairly well and with the possible exception of the Army can't particularly think why it should suffer from poor air quality.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Noting that this thread covers Stagecoach and its Magic Bus service, why have Stagecoach gone to the expense of re-livering its Manchester based Magic Bus fleet when matters of bus provision in that city are said to change under the auspices of Andy Burnham?

What news is there of the Stagecoach's attempt to obtain a judicial review of the Burnham proposals that affect the Greater Manchester area?

 

[overthewater]

Noting that this thread covers Stagecoach and its Magic Bus service, why have Stagecoach gone to the expense of re-livering its Manchester based Magic Bus fleet when matters of bus provision in that city are said to change under the auspices of Andy Burnham?

What news is there of the Stagecoach's attempt to obtain a judicial review of the Burnham proposals that affect the Greater Manchester area?

Do you think its going to happen tomorrow? I think Andy Burnhan plans will take a few year to come about if they do. On top of that Magic bus might be left alone, since its bargain basement operation.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Do you think its going to happen tomorrow? I think Andy Burnhan plans will take a few year to come about if they do. On top of that Magic bus might be left alone, since its barging basement operation.

Andy Burnham has already moved an original starting period dated 2025 to 2024.

 

[Surreyman]

Do you think its going to happen tomorrow? I think Andy Burnhan plans will take a few year to come about if they do. On top of that Magic bus might be left alone, since its barging basement operation.

Sounds like Andy Burnham wants to include the canals too!!!

 

[hst43102]

Andy Burnham has already moved an original starting period dated 2025 to 2024.

In which case repainting the vehicles was probably going to take place before then anyway, I don't think Stagecoach spent a fortune on the new Magicbus brand!

 

[py_megapixel]

I can't see why they would want to let Stagecoach continue running the oldest, most worn-out buses from their fleet up one of the busiest corridors in the city with the sole purpose of undercutting the TfGM fares!

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Sounds like Andy Burnham wants to include the canals too!!!

Andy Burnham in Canal Street....

I think Andy Burnhan plans will take a few year to come about if they do. On top of that Magic bus might be left alone, since its bargain basement operation.

I think the point is that's one of the few instances of overbussing so MagicBus won't be left alone. More that the vehicles need a repaint and they are going to be there for at least another 3 years

 

[Volvodart]

What news is there of the Stagecoach's attempt to obtain a judicial review of the Burnham proposals that affect the Greater Manchester area?

See below:-

https://www.manchestereveningnews.c...l-process-behind-greater-manchesters-20685746

'Unlawful' process behind Greater Manchester's bus franchising plans, court hears​

Bus operators have launched a legal challenge against the decision-making process behind approving the £134.5m scheme

(Image: Mark Waugh Manchester Press Photography Ltd)


The Greater Manchester Combined Authority was ‘unlawful’ in relying on an assessment of the ‘cataclysmic’ impact of Covid-19 on its bus franchising proposals, a court has heard.
Bus operators Stagecoach and Rotala are challenging the decision-making behind the £134.5m scheme in a judicial review hearing at the High Court.
Advertisement



Plans to bring Greater Manchester’s bus network back into public control and introduce London-style services were signed off by Mayor Andy Burnham in March.
But the bus companies claim the GMCA ‘conducted an unlawful process and a flawed consultation’ which failed to properly account for 'fundamental changes' brought about by the pandemic.
A 2019 assessment of the bus franchising proposal, which was independently audited by the business advisory firm Grant Thornton, said franchising provided better value for money to taxpayers than partnering with operators.

RELATED ARTICLES​

• Stagecoach mounts legal challenge against Greater Manchester's 'flawed' bus reform plans
  
• Andy Burnham questions 'justification' of legal challenges to Greater Manchester's bus franchising plans
  

Covid had delayed a decision being taken on bus franchising in March 2020, with the GMCA agreeing in June to compile a report on the potential impacts of the virus on the bus market.

Despite the crippling effect on the industry which saw passenger levels plummet and bus timetables slashed, the Covid report concluded that franchising remained the preferred option.

Andy Burnham announcing the approval of the £134.5m bus franchising scheme in March (Image: Manchester Evening News)
However, the hearing presided over by Mr Justice Julian Knowles heard that the document failed to meet legal requirements set out in the Bus Services Act.

Marie Demetriou QC, the barrister representing Stagecoach, said on Wednesday: “You can’t have a cataclysmic event like Covid which throws into doubt the validity of the assessment that’s been conducted before the event occurs, and then determine that the earlier assessment holds good but to do so on the basis of work which falls short of statutory standards.
“It’s common ground that the GMCA did not proceed on the basis which we say was necessary so there’s no dispute about that.
“They accept that the Covid report did not comply with the Act and was not audited in accordance with the provisions of the Act.
“We say that their failure to proceed in the way that we say is necessary was unlawful.”


Legislation requires that local authorities need to obtain an independent audit of their assessment for bus franchising before proceeding with it.
Stagecoach accept that the GMCA’s pre-Covid assessment was audited by Grant Thornton - but they claim the Covid impact report that followed was not audited to the same standards.
The court heard the report relied on several ‘subjective’ potential scenarios forecasting how the public transport sector in Greater Manchester would - or would not - recover from Covid.

They range from public transport demand returning to normal, to car travel dominating and public transport continuing to slump, to public transport exceeding pre-crisis levels.
But the report provided no data to support the scenarios, which Stagecoach say is contrary to the ‘detailed and granular analysis’ required to make the case for change.

Stagecoach and its chief executive Martin Griffiths (pictured) believe the GMCA conducted 'an unlawful process' (Image: ABNM Photography)
Ms Demetriou said: “In the circumstances where there had been this dramatic turn of events, it was irrational of the GMCA to carry out its further work to a standard that fell below the statutory standard.
“The independent auditor needs to certify that the data, the evidence and the analysis is robust and has been properly done.
“That’s what the defendant should have done, they should have obtained an audit once they carried out the Covid work.
76659595577
“We say, respectfully, that it’s obvious why the defendant didn’t ask Grant Thornton to audit the Covid report, it simply wouldn’t have met this standard.
“We just don’t know when you look at the report where the information comes from, it’s all highly subjective.”
Legal representatives for the GMCA and Rotala, which operates Diamond Bus services in Greater Manchester, will make their submissions to the court tomorrow (Thursday).

​

 

[Scotrail314209]

Just seen on the Megabus website that they are now allowing passengers to sit next to each other between stops in England only. This does not count on inter-Scotland work.

It comes with a warning that passengers from Scotland and Wales may end up with people sitting next to them between stops in England.

megabus Coronavirus safety information

Our enhanced safety measures are there to help keep you and our people safe on board. We’d ask that you read these in detail before you travel and thank you in advance for helping us keep all our passengers and people safe.

uk.megabus.com

• We're now able to safely make more seats available on our services in England, so you're now able to sit next to each other. But we'd still encourage customers to keep their distance where possible.

 

[RomeoCharlie71]

Just seen on the Megabus website that they are now allowing passengers to sit next to each other between stops in England only. This does not count on inter-Scotland work.

It comes with a warning that passengers from England and Wales may end up with people sitting next to them between stops in England.

megabus Coronavirus safety information

Our enhanced safety measures are there to help keep you and our people safe on board. We’d ask that you read these in detail before you travel and thank you in advance for helping us keep all our passengers and people safe.

uk.megabus.com

Ah, so the Welsh and Scottish services are too unsafe for this to happen. Gotcha.

I really wish operators would be mindful when it comes to wording this sort of stuff. Something akin to "Updated government guidance has allowed us to make more seats available on services in England, so you're now able to sit next to each other" would probably be better in this instance?

 

[Scotrail314209]

Ah, so the Welsh and Scottish services are too unsafe for this to happen. Gotcha.

I really wish operators would be mindful when it comes to wording this sort of stuff. Something akin to "Updated government guidance has allowed us to make more seats available on services in England, so you're now able to sit next to each other" would probably be better in this instance?

I think the main reason is, passengers can sit next to each other in England, but not in Wales or Scotland.

 

[RomeoCharlie71]

I think the main reason is, passengers can sit next to each other in England, but not in Wales or Scotland.

Yeah. I'm just not a fan of this whole "safe" thing - it implies it's safe enough to do it in England but not in Wales or Scotland. In reality it's just because the UK government has updated the guidance for England, but the devolved nations haven't followed suit.

Might just be me being a bit pedantic!

 

[Scotrail314209]

Yeah. I'm just not a fan of this whole "safe" thing - it implies it's safe enough to do it in England but not in Wales or Scotland. In reality it's just because the UK government has updated the guidance for England, but the devolved nations haven't followed suit.

Might just be me being a bit pedantic!

It's definitely confusing. Just hoping it's a Panorama and not an Astromega, that won't be great.

 

[hst43102]

Last Thursday I saw a couple of Stagecoach Versas being towed south at Scotch Corner on the A1. The Versas were heavily stripped and both appeared to be missing engines - probably on their way to Barnsley?

Does anyone know where they were from - Scotland possibly?

 

[David Verity]

Last Thursday I saw a couple of Stagecoach Versas being towed south at Scotch Corner on the A1. The Versas were heavily stripped and both appeared to be missing engines - probably on their way to Barnsley?

Does anyone know where they were from - Scotland possibly?

East Scotland have been disposing of some recently. Formerly they moved them on to Cumbria and North Lancashire, who in turn shunted some of them off to Merseyside and South Lancs. Clearly not anybody's favourite bus. The latest lot have gone for scrap, including one which self combusted in Dunfermline a few weeks ago.

 

[Jordan Adam]

East Scotland have been disposing of some recently. Formerly they moved them on to Cumbria and North Lancashire, who in turn shunted some of them off to Merseyside and South Lancs. Clearly not anybody's favourite bus. The latest lot have gone for scrap, including one which self combusted in Dunfermline and few weeks ago.

Most of them have MAN engines so it comes as little surprise.

 

[cnjb8]

Last Thursday I saw a couple of Stagecoach Versas being towed south at Scotch Corner on the A1. The Versas were heavily stripped and both appeared to be missing engines - probably on their way to Barnsley?

Does anyone know where they were from - Scotland possibly?

East Scotland have been disposing of some recently. Formerly they moved them on to Cumbria and North Lancashire, who in turn shunted some of them off to Merseyside and South Lancs. Clearly not anybody's favourite bus. The latest lot have gone for scrap, including one which self combusted in Dunfermline a few weeks ago.

The Versas originally had MAN engines, and we all know how bad they have been. The Solos built around the same time as Versas are gradually being disposed of too, particularly at West Scotland, who plan to replace the MAN Solos with the EV Solos from Inverness

 

[py_megapixel]

The Solos built around the same time as Versas are gradually being disposed of too

Are these Solos of the original design or the redesign (SR, I think they're called?)

 

[hst43102]

East Scotland have been disposing of some recently. Formerly they moved them on to Cumbria and North Lancashire, who in turn shunted some of them off to Merseyside and South Lancs. Clearly not anybody's favourite bus. The latest lot have gone for scrap, including one which self combusted in Dunfermline a few weeks ago.

East Scotland would make sense considering the location of the vehicles. Does anyone know which yard bought them?

 

[cnjb8]

Are these Solos of the original design or the redesign (SR, I think they're called?)

No, the orginal Solo. The updated design is the Solo SR

 

[David Verity]

According to a piece in Buses magazine, Torbay Council plan to withhold concessionary reimbursement from Stagecoach amounting to £950k because "so few pass holders travelled during the lockdown" Anybody out there know if this is legal and if it might set a trend please?

 

[markymark2000]

According to a piece in Buses magazine, Torbay Council plan to withhold concessionary reimbursement from Stagecoach amounting to £950k because "so few pass holders travelled during the lockdown" Anybody out there know if this is legal and if it might set a trend please?

I think it is legal but goes against government advise. If the council gained any funding from central govt for public transport, it could be a condition in there to keep paying operators at 100%.