Station announcements too long

[Clip]

But with the move to itinerary-based planners both with the proliferation of tickets being bought online, plus the likes of Northern-style ticket machines, it would tell you to get train VT1934 to Preston, then NT5589 to Blackpool.

As Bletchleyite said, with a move to a takt timetable, you’d know the xx:30 and xx:58 would always stop at Preston anyway for you to change to Blackpool.

But my itinerary already tells me that in a user friendly time format which is known across the world.

Fair point. However, how many connection opportunities should be announced for each interchange station?

Is it just the main connecting services or all possible connecting services? Are these announced by referencing the end of those lines or some/all stations along those lines?

e.g. Should it be "Platform 5 for the xx:xx Avanti West Coast service to Glasgow Central calling at Crewe, Warrington Bank Quay, Wigan North Western, Preston ..... Glasgow Central. Change at Crewe for Chester and Holyhead. Change at Wigan North Western for Southport. Change at Preston for Blackpool."

OR "Platform 5 for the xx:xx Avanti West Coast service to Glasgow Central calling at Crewe, Warrington Bank Quay, Wigan North Western, Preston ..... Glasgow Central. Change at Crewe for Chester and stations to Holyhead. Change at Wigan North Western for stations to Southport. Change at Preston for stations to Blackpool North."

OR "Platform 5 for the xx:xx Avanti West Coast service to Glasgow Central calling at Crewe, Warrington Bank Quay, Wigan North Western, Preston ..... Glasgow Central. Change at Crewe for Chester, Shotton, Flint ... Holyhead. Change at Wigan North Western for Gathurst ... Southport. Change at Preston for Salwick ... Blackpool North."

The fundamental problem would appear to be that whichever version is chosen someone (at least on this forum) is going to be unhappy that the announcements are either too long/too short or too detailed/not detailed enough.

Personally, I think the railway should bring in consistent stopping patterns with route numbers for each route and retail service IDs for trains with reservations e.g London Euston - Glasgow Central (Avanti West Coast) being IWC1 for example with the 10:15 departure being IWC1-1S08 for example. These numbers could, be printed on the passenger's itinerary so they would know which train they were looking/listening for without all of its calling points having to be announced

I didn't say that they should announce all connections though

My tickets tell me a time to get on a train, where to change and then the time for the connection.

I was replying to the poster who thinks that an identifying number would be simpler.

 

[CentralTrainer]

Sorry for this specific example I wasn't clear, from Stratford-Upon-Avon to Kidderminster via Whitlocks End and Birmingham Snow Hill it's 30 stations ( https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:L25920/2021-06-10/detailed ) I'm not sure what you'd omit, as you can't announce all stops because it doesn't stop at Bordesley, plus not all services stop at Tysley.

Some say it is confusing on this line, there's 2tph between Birmingham Snow Hill and Stratford-Upon-Avon, but 1tph runs via Whitlocks End and 1tph runs via Dorridge. These both have the same destination station (Kidderminster). These sort of calling patterns make just saying "all stops" basically impossible. The stopping patterns of trains via Dorridge is even worse, some trains stop at Stratford Parkway, Hatton, Bearly, some don't, a true Takt could just be too complicated.

Some of the services between Worcester and Birmingham SH and beyond also don't stop at Hartlebury, Blakedown (iirc), Hagley (iirc), Langley Green, Old Hill or Lye as well

 

[Horizon22]

The announcements are almost non stop on the all stations services to Caterham and Tattenham Corner, which split at Purley. The 10 coaches are longer than most of the stations between London Bridge and Purley so you get warnings about travelling in the front 8 coaches as well as the list of stations for both portions.

Some weekend 12-car services from London Bridge which split 3-ways (1 terminated Purley?) were a nightmare. I'd be off the train at my stop on route, train departed and I'd be out of the station whilst the announcement was still playing!

 

[flitwickbeds]

Personally, I think the railway should bring in consistent stopping patterns with route numbers for each route and retail service IDs for trains with reservations e.g London Euston - Glasgow Central (Avanti West Coast) being IWC1 for example with the 10:15 departure being IWC1-1S08 for example. These numbers could, be printed on the passenger's itinerary so they would know which train they were looking/listening for without all of its calling points having to be announced

Disagree. Route numbers - if you adapt the culture to do this, which is a mammoth task in itself - are fine for enthusiasts. They're largely fine for standard point to point journeys. They're horrible for those unfamiliar with the network or route number system, or when the network has problems.

"My itinerary says I should get the AB123 service from Gatwick Airport to London Bridge but I see no AB123 service on the boards [because there is a derailed train in the Thameslink core which has stopped all trains for the last 3 hours]. Does YZ987 or MN546 go to London Bridge? I have absolutely no idea."

"I just missed the DU385 service printed on my itinerary going from Manchester Piccadilly to York, and the next one isn't for another 2 hours. Oh well, I guess I'll just wait here. What do you mean the SQ712 service goes to York via a different route? How was I supposed to know that?"

 

[davews]

One thing that really is just unnecessary filling (on SWR trains) is 'some stations have short platforms'. You could just leave that out and just say 'front 8 carriages for Winnersh, ....'

SWR have now started putting 'this train is now between X and Z' on the platform displays, but not the announcements. It seems to lag reality, when it says 'at Bracknell' when you can see the headlights brightly as it approaches Martins Heron.

 

[py_megapixel]

Avanti do a lot of this. Particularly amusing is having an emotionless synthetic voice try to assure me that the food from the buffet is "delicious" - something just doesn't fit!

 

[Jim the Jim]

They don't need all that information at every stop. Connections, request stops and short platforms can be announced starting a few stations before. Plus maybe a big announcement of everything on leaving the big city centre stations (but then you don't need the city centre connections) and the stations at the end of the line.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Avanti do a lot of this. Particularly amusing is having an emotionless synthetic voice try to assure me that the food from the buffet is "delicious" - something just doesn't fit!

SBB interestingly have a similar auto-spiel about the restaurant, but only announce 4-5 via points. This isn't really a problem because the Takt is consistent, but it did lead to an interesting situation - at Geneva Airport on the old timetable nothing at all indicated that the IRs stopped at Vevey anywhere - not on the displays, not on the train and not on any posters either! I suspect the intent might be that you took an IC to Lausanne and changed as it's quicker, but it's not much quicker so almost nobody would want to do that.

 

[Essexman]

When I was on an Exmouth train from Torquay last week, the female automated announcer said when approaching Newton Abbot "change here for Paignton", which was pretty odd given that's where the train had come from! I predict approximately 0 people travel from Torre/Torquay to Paignton by changing at Newton Abbot

the automated announcements on trains from London say change at Newton Abbott for Paignton even if the train is going to Paignton. It has caused confusion.

 

[Western 52]

the automated announcements on trains from London say change at Newton Abbott for Paignton even if the train is going to Paignton. It has caused confusion.

Similarly when the class 800s were new the morning Carmarthen to Paddington train had an automatic announcement approaching Swansea telling everyone to change at Swansea for Carmarthen! Presumably the announcements are triggered by GPS location?

 

[py_megapixel]

Similarly when the class 800s were new the morning Carmarthen to Paddington train had an automatic announcement approaching Swansea telling everyone to change at Swansea for Carmarthen! Presumably the announcements are triggered by GPS location?

They are triggered by GPS location, but the system will know what service it's on and should therefore, in my opinion, be capable of automatically adjusting them accordingly

 

[brad465]

This seems to be the most recent and relevant thread still open on the relevant subject: the Sunday Times has on its front cover for tomorrow a section suggesting Shapps is planning to introduce "curbs on tannoy messages":

Sunday Times Front Page 27th of June 2021 - Tomorrow's Papers Today!

Matt Hancock reportedly ended his marriage just hours before his tryst with aide Gina Coladangelo was exposed, The Sunday Times reports.

www.tomorrowspapers.co.uk

 

[ScottGallagher]

In terms of request stops as somebody's destination , for the infrequent traveller at least couldn't the request stop be indicated on the ticket with (x) after the destination name and if booked online a pop up asking to remember to inform the guard. That way the announcements can simply say 'request stops are in place on this route please check your ticket'.

 

[Furryanimal]

It doesn’t matter how long or short the announcements are if they are so faint you can’t hear them!
Having had the misfortune to be on Filton Abbey Wood for an hour the other evening( i just missed my train to Newport and the next one was cancelled)I was aware of faint announcements in the background but i defy anyone to actually be able to follow them if they are not stood right under the tannoy!

 

[miklcct]

If we moved to proper Takt we could dispense with announcing calling points and just announce that it's a LM2, for example. Merseyrail doesn't, nor does London Underground.

What is a takt? Seems no one here has explained the word and it's not even English!

 

[C J Snarzell]

Milford Haven announcements (presuming they have them) must be pretty long for services to Manchester. You’ve got at least 30 stops in English, then repeated in Welsh, then you’ve got request stops too at Johnston, Clarbeston Road and Clunderwen; and Kidwelly and Ferryside.

You'd think in this scenario the TfW announcer/controller would make their lives easier and simply tell passengers which stations the train isn't calling at!!!

One thing I have found with station announcements is that I've been to a couple of stations and the PA sounds like it's been plunged in a bucket or the person doing the PA sounds like Hooks from the Police Academy films.

Another instance is when a PA is blarring away at 11pm or 6am on a deserted platform. Many years ago, my friend lived opposite a train station in Leicestershire (I forget which one) for a few months and he could hear the PA sometimes while he was in bed!!!!

CJ

 

[py_megapixel]

What is a takt? Seems no one here has explained the word and it's not even English!

It's what would be used in Germany to describe a "clock-face timetable", which means that the same services run at the same number of minutes past every hour throughout the day.

I think @Bletchleyite's point was that if you didn't have the odd little variations - such as one hour the service on a particular route being 2 minutes earlier than another, or only some trains stopping at whatever station, then you wouldn't need to announce so much detail about them.

 

[unlevel42]

Went on a day trip to Whitstable last week and found all the pits a Northener could fall into.
Staying at St Pancras I failed to notice that the tickets I bought at the St Pancras platform TVM were not valid from St Pancras without a supplement- thank you platform staff for sorting it out.
On our return we found out(smartphone) that our HS1 was cancelled before we arrived at platform.
The alternative was to go to Victoria.
One announcement only and that was about merging trains and re-routing of the Victoria train.

The only platform announcement was insufficient in offering any information about the cancellation and to how to get to St Pancras.
Thanks to the platform staff at Victoria, Victoria and St Pancras underground for being helpful.

I am sure locals do not need full and repeated explanations or repeats but us older visitors do.

 

[Mojo]

This seems to be the most recent and relevant thread still open on the relevant subject: the Sunday Times has on its front cover for tomorrow a section suggesting Shapps is planning to introduce "curbs on tannoy messages":

Sunday Times Front Page 27th of June 2021 - Tomorrow's Papers Today!

Matt Hancock reportedly ended his marriage just hours before his tryst with aide Gina Coladangelo was exposed, The Sunday Times reports.

www.tomorrowspapers.co.uk

View attachment 98858

Stories like this seem to pop up every couple of years but nothing ever seems to change. From 2013: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-21773741

Transport minister Norman Baker has said the number of computer-generated announcements on trains has got out of hand and needs to be reduced.

 

[duncanp]

Staying at St Pancras I failed to notice that the tickets I bought at the St Pancras platform TVM were not valid from St Pancras without a supplement- thank you platform staff for sorting it out.

How can tickets bought from a platform TVM at St Pancras not be valid from St Pancras?

I would have thought that if you are buying a ticket from a machine at St Pancras, to a destination that is served by direct trains from St Pancras, the TVM should make the reasonable assumption that you want to start your journey from there, and present the ticket for the direct journey as the default choice.

If there are different tiket options which are only valid via certain routes, the machine should state this clearly, so that the passenger can make an informed choice.

This sort of thing is not very user friendly, and could put people off using the railway.

 

[Huntergreed]

The problem is not the service announcements. These are necessary, particularly for those who do not use the network regularly or do not have good knowledge of routing. They also provide reassurance that you are on the correct platform/train.

The issue is the massive barrage of non-service announcements which, realistically, make little difference. Including:

If you see something that doesn’t look right, speak to staff, or text British transport police on 61016. We’ll sort it. See it, say it, sorted.

Please do not leave your luggage unattended on the station. Unattended items may be removed without warning, or destroyed or damaged by the security services

and more recently:

Please wear a face covering whilst on stations and travelling on public transport, and remember, some passengers may have invisible disabilities or health conditions which may mean they are unable to wear one

or the far less pleasant

You must wear a face covering whilst on stations and travelling on public transport

Combine all of these 2 or 3 times an hour and it’s so easy to see how annoying this can get. Keep the service announcements and really cut down on the other nonsense.

 

[Parallel]

It is worth noting there are variances across TOCs and stations. GWR tend to play the below generic messages at 30 minute intervals:

- See it, say it, sorted
- Unattended luggage
- Train doors close 40 secs before departure
- Mind the gap
- Stand behind the yellow line/platform edge
- You must wear a face covering
- GWR Penalty fares

Are there actually that many people who wait longer than 30 minutes for a train? I guess some might wait for up to an hour for a connection but even then, they’d only hear them twice. If it’s an issue, why not just wear earphones? The sound of announcements won’t be as loud as the sound of the trains!

A lot of the stations across the network I’ve noticed tend to turn the volume on their announcements down/off after 10 or 11pm.

 

[swaldman]

I remember that on some of the (at the time) SWT services departing Waterloo, the barrage of announcements, including the BTP one and the "You must have a ticket to travel on this service" and so forth, wouldn't stop until arrival in Vauxhall...

 

[Alfie1014]

This seems to be the most recent and relevant thread still open on the relevant subject: the Sunday Times has on its front cover for tomorrow a section suggesting Shapps is planning to introduce "curbs on tannoy messages":

Sunday Times Front Page 27th of June 2021 - Tomorrow's Papers Today!

Matt Hancock reportedly ended his marriage just hours before his tryst with aide Gina Coladangelo was exposed, The Sunday Times reports.

www.tomorrowspapers.co.uk

View attachment 98858

The irony is that his very own Department mandates many of the very messages he complains about, including “See it, say it, sorted” and Penalty Fares and revenue protection messages! Slaps hand loudly against forehead.

 

[island]

What is a takt? Seems no one here has explained the word and it's not even English!

It’s the first syllable of “Taktfahrplan”, a German term which roughly translates as “clock-face timetable”, though the implication is a public transport timetable covering a relatively large area and designed in such a way as to repeat in a predictable manner, minimise connection times, make common connections easy, etc.

How can tickets bought from a platform TVM at St Pancras not be valid from St Pancras?

There are no “platform TVMs”, but if someone specifies a Kent destination on a TVM at St. Pancras it is possible for them to select between routes such as “PLUS HIGH SPEED” or “NOT VALID ON HS1”.

Similarly, at most London terminals it’s possible to buy a ticket from London Terminals to a destination which would require travel to another London terminal to use.

I would have thought that if you are buying a ticket from a machine at St Pancras, to a destination that is served by direct trains from St Pancras, the TVM should make the reasonable assumption that you want to start your journey from there, and present the ticket for the direct journey as the default choice.

“PLUS HIGH SPEED” is selected in the “popular tickets” buttons on the home screen; for other destinations the passenger is prompted to choose a route. The TVM software offers all routes and does not presume which one is desired.

If there are different tiket options which are only valid via certain routes, the machine should state this clearly, so that the passenger can make an informed choice.

It does.

This sort of thing is not very user friendly, and could put people off using the railway.

Anyone at St Pancras who is unclear as to which ticket option to choose for their journey has the option of using either of the two booking offices, or consulting one of the numerous staff members present.

 

[miklcct]

Disagree. Route numbers - if you adapt the culture to do this, which is a mammoth task in itself - are fine for enthusiasts. They're largely fine for standard point to point journeys. They're horrible for those unfamiliar with the network or route number system, or when the network has problems.

"My itinerary says I should get the AB123 service from Gatwick Airport to London Bridge but I see no AB123 service on the boards [because there is a derailed train in the Thameslink core which has stopped all trains for the last 3 hours]. Does YZ987 or MN546 go to London Bridge? I have absolutely no idea."

"I just missed the DU385 service printed on my itinerary going from Manchester Piccadilly to York, and the next one isn't for another 2 hours. Oh well, I guess I'll just wait here. What do you mean the SQ712 service goes to York via a different route? How was I supposed to know that?"

In such case you should be able to read the route map to see if the SQ712 train actually stops at your desired destination, or if you can change to another train for your destination on route!

 

[unlevel42]

There are no “platform TVMs”, but if someone specifies a Kent destination on a TVM at St. Pancras it is possible for them to select between routes such as “PLUS HIGH SPEED” or “NOT VALID ON HS1”.

Similarly, at most London terminals it’s possible to buy a ticket from London Terminals to a destination which would require travel to another London terminal to use.

“PLUS HIGH SPEED” is selected in the “popular tickets” buttons on the home screen; for other destinations the passenger is prompted to choose a route. The TVM software offers all routes and does not presume which one is desired.

It does.

Anyone at St Pancras who is unclear as to which ticket option to choose for their journey has the option of using either of the two booking offices, or consulting one of the numerous staff members present.

To be specific, I bought the ticket at St Pancras platform level Southeastern TVM which is 10m from the platform which we used as directed by the staff at the booking office downstairs which was very busy.

Sorting out seven people all with one of three different railcards I obviously missed the "Not valid on HS1" which seemed irrelevant as I was going to Whitstable not Paris- and up North we don't have supplements like they do in Europe.

Thankfully the very understanding people at the gate and kiosk sorted it out, they both said it happened regularly.
I have no problem with this as it was my mistake I will know next time thanks to those patient and understanding members of staff who did not need point out my stupidity.

 

[PR1Berske]

Avanti do a lot of this. Particularly amusing is having an emotionless synthetic voice try to assure me that the food from the buffet is "delicious" - something just doesn't fit!

The industry likely has little idea just how mocked some of the robotic announcements are. When a computer tells you its sorry for any inconvenience, I doubt many people will feel comforted!

 

[Merseysider]

The issue is the massive barrage of non-service announcements which, realistically, make little difference. Including:
...
Combine all of these 2 or 3 times an hour and it’s so easy to see how annoying this can get. Keep the service announcements and really cut down on the other nonsense.

My opinion is that (if it’s a generic announcement which applies to all trains like luggage or masks), if you can stick it on a poster it doesn’t need to be announced at all/more than once.

Calling points should be announced as they do vary by service.

 

[142blue]

Milford Haven announcements (presuming they have them) must be pretty long for services to Manchester. You’ve got at least 30 stops in English, then repeated in Welsh, then you’ve got request stops too at Johnston, Clarbeston Road and Clunderwen; and Kidwelly and Ferryside.

Depends when you start the announcement. I do Milford Haven and Pembroke Dock