Stations managed by operators that do not stop there

[Anon Mouse]

Apologies if in wrong section. Can anyone confirm if I am correct in thinking that Lockerbie is the only station on the newtwork that is managed by an operator that does not have any trains stopping there?

 

[Galvanize]

Water Orton and Coleshill Parkway are both managed by London Midland, despite none of their trains serving those stations. Burton-on-Trent is managed by EMT, yet only Crosscountry stops there.

 

[Buttsy]

Manea - operated by GA, stopped at by XC only.

 

[wibble]

Dean, Mottisfont & Dunbridge operated by FGW but only SWT stop there. Romsey is also an FGW station and SWT operate the majority of services calling there.

 

[Anon Mouse]

Hmm there are more than I thought. Interesting as I realise the Lockerbie example is due to the Scottish Goverment wanting all stations in Scotland managed by Scotrail and that being the only station in Scotland where Scotrail don't stop. Presumably the other examples are victims of the changing franchises
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Dean, Mottisfont & Dunbridge operated by FGW but only SWT stop there. Romsey is also an FGW station and SWT operate the majority of services calling there.

and there's more. I don't however think Romsey counts as FGW still (afaik) have some trains stop there. Alnmouth and Chester-le-Street are managed by Northern but have a minimal Northern service stopping there so I discounted them

 

[Class172]

Hinckey is run by LM/EMT (not sure) but only served by XC.

 

[Max]

Willington is managed by EMT but only served by CrossCounty. It most frequently appears at CrossCountry served stations as they do not manage stations as part of their franchise.

 

[Anon Mouse]

Willington is managed by EMT but only served by CrossCounty. It most frequently appears at CrossCountry served stations as they do not manage stations as part of their franchise.

Ah I see, that makes sense!!

 

[cuccir]

The majority of the others will be Cross Country, who do not operate stations. Any station with a Cross Country only service will be operated by someone who does not serve it.
--
In fact, Wikipedia has a table of Cross Country-only stations and who operates them!

East Midlands Trains
Burton-on-Trent
Willington
Hinckley
Narborough
South Wigston

London Midland
Water Orton
Coleshill Parkway
Wilnecote

Greater Anglia
Manea

 

[jopsuk]

It makes sense though- the Cross Crountry-only stations are spread far and wide, some are unmanned. it would be daft to have a roving maintainence team that had a "patch" that's half the country- far more efficient to add them to the responsability of a local operator. Presumably the way XC's contract is structured involves them paying the local operators some sort of charge for this.

 

[Anon Mouse]

It makes sense though- the Cross Crountry-only stations are spread far and wide, some are unmanned. it would be daft to have a roving maintainence team that had a "patch" that's half the country- far more efficient to add them to the responsability of a local operator. Presumably the way XC's contract is structured involves them paying the local operators some sort of charge for this.

Would them being operated by Network Rail not make more sense? I can't see Go North East managing, paying for repairs and employing staff at a bus station where Arriva North East or Stagecoach only stop at (for example), no wonder passengers don't always know who they need to speak to for information, comments & complaints!

 

[swt_passenger]

Even at stations where the local TOC doesn't operate the majority of services there might be good reasons for not giving the actual majority operator the responsibility. A balance has to be struck with sensible geographic areas, as so much of the staff rostering and maintenance is done on a basis of groups of neighbouring stations. Romsey is now out on a limb from GW's normal territory though, so there is probably reasonable justification to transfer it to SWT. The opposite sort of case exists at Swanwick though, where SN provide twice as many services as SWT, yet geographically it probably sits best with SWT?

 

[Anon Mouse]

Even at stations where the local TOC doesn't operate the majority of services there might be good reasons for not giving the actual majority operator the responsibility. A balance has to be struck with sensible geographic areas, as so much of the staff rostering and maintenance is done on a basis of groups of neighbouring stations. Romsey is now out on a limb from GW's normal territory though, so there is probably reasonable justification to transfer it to SWT. The opposite sort of case exists at Swanwick though, where SN provide twice as many services as SWT, yet geographically it probably sits best with SWT?

Thats another angle too I suppose, especially when it comes to cleaning and maintaince teams.

 

[swt_passenger]

Would them being operated by Network Rail not make more sense?

Network Rail could still end up with a 'small stations' management team that suffered from similar additional costs (due to very widespread responsibilities) that a theoretical XC organisation would, so it probably must be better to effectively 'sub-contract' to the main local operator.

[crossed with your reply above]

 

[Anon Mouse]

Network Rail could still end up with a 'small stations' management team that suffered from similar additional costs (due to very widespread responsibilities) that a theoretical XC organisation would, so it probably must be better to effectively 'sub-contract' to the main local operator.

[crossed with your reply above]

dispite there bing many good reasons why it happens it still appears odd (to the general public anyway) that their station is managed by 'The Red Train' but the train that stops there is 'The Blue Train'. After all they would not expect a Vodaphone contract from EE. But like many things relating to the railway everything is not as expected.

It is not sub-contracting as it seems any outlay would come from the TOC operating the station, even if they get payments from the TOC who stop there. After all who will pay for small things like bog roll, timetable displays, posters, new lock on toilet, replacement glass panel (forgive me if I'm wrong) but the money for these things will come from the operator of the station...or am I looking into it too deep?

 

[Liam]

Hmm there are more than I thought. Interesting as I realise the Lockerbie example is due to the Scottish Goverment wanting all stations in Scotland managed by Scotrail and that being the only station in Scotland where Scotrail don't stop. Presumably the other examples are victims of the changing franchises

Glasgow Prestwick Airport is operated by the Airport. Also Dunbar is operated by East Coast, although of course East Coast services stop here, along with XC and Scotrail.

There are 17 stations operated by Network Rail. Last time I checked Network Rail don't run any passenger services...

 

[Anon Mouse]

Glasgow Prestwick Airport is operated by the Airport. Also Dunbar is operated by East Coast

There are 17 stations operated by Network Rail. Last time I checked Network Rail don't run any passenger services...

oh yeah, Dunbar...and Glasgow Central etc, I honestly forgot about the NR managed ones in Scotland! So how can Lockerbie be opearated by Scotrail but the likes of Edinburgh and Glasgow be operated by NR and Dunbar by EC. Relating to Lockerbie I was told it was down to the Scottish Parliment!

 

[jopsuk]

Another non-operator station: the new Southend Airport station is owned and managed by Stobart Rail (the airport being owned by Stobart Group). GA services only.

 

[Jordeh]

oh yeah, Dunbar...and Glasgow Central etc, I honestly forgot about the NR managed ones in Scotland! So how can Lockerbie be opearated by Scotrail but the likes of Edinburgh and Glasgow be operated by NR and Dunbar by EC. Relating to Lockerbie I was told it was down to the Scottish Parliment!

Quite possible but it also seems most logical. It's out of the way for either TPE or Virgin Trains to manage but not too far afield for Scotrail. Network Rail only manage major stations.

 

[merlodlliw]

Network rail manage a few termini, but have no train services for pax

 

[jopsuk]

Yes, that's been noted already- though they also manage through stations

 

[Liam]

Quite possible but it also seems most logical. It's out of the way for either TPE or Virgin Trains to manage but not too far afield for Scotrail. Network Rail only manage major stations.

This is why I think it a Scotrail station. Lockerbie is only 12 mles from Dumfries and Annan. Dunbar is approximately half way between Edinburgh and Berwick. I suppose work done there is carried out from Berwick?

 

[hilly]

fishguard harbour is operated by stena line i believe

 

[Blindtraveler]

in theory Lockerbie could be managed by TPE Subcontracted to Scotrail as both are opperated by First. Have to say this though, one of Scotrails cleanest bogs is at this station and now there is footbridge and lifts its an overaj good station to use.

 

[Clip]

oh yeah, Dunbar...and Glasgow Central etc, I honestly forgot about the NR managed ones in Scotland! So how can Lockerbie be opearated by Scotrail but the likes of Edinburgh and Glasgow be operated by NR and Dunbar by EC. Relating to Lockerbie I was told it was down to the Scottish Parliment!

Because Railtrack were very clever in keeping the Major Stations to make money out of the commercial side of it. I.E rents and a slice of every retailers profits. Very handy income I should think too.

 

[tractakid]

A couple of station management things I dont understand...

Why is Rugby managed by VT and Milton Keynes Central managed by LM?

Why is Marylebone managed by Chiltern? (as opposed to other London termini being Network Rail)

Why does the Wikipedia article for Lockerbie state that Long Buckby is an example of a station managed by a TOC that does not serve the station with trains? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lockerbie_railway_station

I also had another thought- not a particularly serious one... how about, due to proximity, Network Rail manage Milton Keynes Central?

 

[Clip]

Why is Marylebone managed by Chiltern? (as opposed to other London termini being Network Rail)

I also had another thought- not a particularly serious one... how about, due to proximity, Network Rail manage Milton Keynes Central?

See above. Costs of doing both would outstrip what they would make from the retail side of things. Marylebone is a small terminal station, and very pretty too, but there just isnt enough room for the retail outlets that would bring in the revenue, especially with the LUL station taking up so much room. Just look at how much they cut back the concourse to install the barriers - the barrier line before that was at the end of the platforms just manned with a few people clipping - now its a good 10 ft back into the concourse.

Milton Keynes - whilst you could build as much as you want there would it be worth it? Its generally a commuter station IMO so youre looking at 3 hours max in the morning to take any revenue but most people are only there for 5-10 mins so not much time to buuy stuff. Yes you get travellers in through the day but not enough to sustain running the station or the improvements - leave that to a TOC and its not coming out of your coffers nor do you have to deal with most of the day to day issues surrounding your concessions.

Which is why some people are surprised they dont manage Newcastle given how big the city is but it was never thought that the footfall nor interchange passengers would ever be enough to bother managing it.

 

[pinguini]

dispite there bing many good reasons why it happens it still appears odd (to the general public anyway) that their station is managed by 'The Red Train' but the train that stops there is 'The Blue Train'. After all they would not expect a Vodaphone contract from EE. But like many things relating to the railway everything is not as expected.

It is not sub-contracting as it seems any outlay would come from the TOC operating the station, even if they get payments from the TOC who stop there. After all who will pay for small things like bog roll, timetable displays, posters, new lock on toilet, replacement glass panel (forgive me if I'm wrong) but the money for these things will come from the operator of the station...or am I looking into it too deep?

I think you need to give a bit more credit to the travelling public who understand a bit more than 'the red train' and 'the blue train' They aren't pre-schoolers!

 

[IanXC]

Which is why some people are surprised they dont manage Newcastle given how big the city is but it was never thought that the footfall nor interchange passengers would ever be enough to bother managing it.

The East Coast franchise consultation raised the question of whether Newcastle and/or York should become NR managed stations.

 

[SussexSpotter]

It recently occured to me, why is it that Dean and Mottifont & Dunbridge stations are still under First Great Western management when only South West Trains serve the stations?

Something else I thought should happen is to transfer all the stations between Reigate and Shalford to SWT, with SWT taking over the services.

What are your views on this?