Stations rebranded to Great British Railways design / Rail Alphabet 2

[ScottGallagher]

I believe signage at Grange-over-Sands has been changed - not certain though.

That's odd if true as it's already in Rail Alphabet from its TPE days as is Carnforth , Arnside, Ulverston and Barrow. You would think the Serco Northern signs everywhere else would go first !

 

[WelshBluebird]

I actually really like it. Its simple, easy to read and shouldn't get lost amongst all sorts of other branding.
I think sometimes people get way too caught up in things and forget what the actual purpose is! In this case the purpose is to clearly show a station name and other signage that is easy to read and isn't going to confuse people. I think they have done that pretty well!

 

[Bletchleyite]

That's odd if true as it's already in Rail Alphabet from its TPE days as is Carnforth , Arnside, Ulverston and Barrow. You would think the Serco Northern signs everywhere else would go first !

Rail Alphabet 2 isn't actually that much like the very-dated-looking original, so neither is on brand, and those old vinylled TPE signs look very dated.

 

[Aictos]

I actually really like it. Its simple, easy to read and shouldn't get lost amongst all sorts of other branding.
I think sometimes people get way too caught up in things and forget what the actual purpose is! In this case the purpose is to clearly show a station name and other signage that is easy to read and isn't going to confuse people. I think they have done that pretty well!

My point exactly, some people are more bothered about minor things that they don't see or understand the bigger issue. It's clear and easy to read although I have to ask what happened to the idea of using Brunel font type on station signs that was the plan a few years ago hence why the South West Division and South Eastern Divisions have a dark blue background with a white font.

Surely if they really wanted to bring a unified look then they should roll out NR Brunel signage for all stations regardless of who the operator is in the UK.

 

[QueensCurve]

As various Northern stations have begun their rebrand to the Great British Railways design / Rail Alphabet 2, we may need a new thread to keep track of this.

Examples I've found on Twitter of rebranded platform signs so far are (linked):

• Appleby
• Church Fenton
• Dent (pic)
• Lazonby & Kirkoswald
• Poppleton (pic)
• Ribblehead (pic)
• Sherburn-In-Elmet
• South Milford (pic)

Paddington is confirmed as the first 'major station' to get the new signs. Northern's new timetable also uses the font.

It will be good to for Puddington get away from the awful Great Western seriffed face.

 

[WAO]

Mixed case is actually easier to read in my opinion and I read that it's been proven less likely to cause confusion to those who suffer from e.g. dyslexia.
In reality what's really need is bolder type and increased spacing between the characters.

Mixed case is certainly better for conversational text such as toilets, buffet, way out etc.

Architectural, monumental or positional text does need to be more emphatic as you say. That's why upper case is used because the area occupied by each letter is 2 - 4 times as great, so it can be seen from afar.

WAO

 

[Meerkat]

Architectural, monumental or positional text does need to be more emphatic as you say. That's why upper case is used because the area occupied by each letter is 2 - 4 times as great, so it can be seen from afar.

Mixed case is easier to read from any distance isn’t it - that’s why they chose it for British road signs??

 

[WAO]

Yes but the signs are used for different purposes.

The advantage of upper case is size. You could always increase the lower case
font size to match, but we generally don't.

WAO

 

[Meerkat]

Yes but the signs are used for different purposes.

The advantage of upper case is size. You could always increase the lower case
font size to match, but we generally don't.

WAO

Road signs are intended to be read from distance so I don’t get your point that upper case is more legible - AIUI it just isn’t.

 

[XAM2175]

Architectural, monumental or positional text does need to be more emphatic as you say. That's why upper case is used because the area occupied by each letter is 2 - 4 times as great, so it can be seen from afar.

Mixed case is easier to read from any distance isn’t it - that’s why they chose it for British road signs??

It is indeed easier to read whole words in mixed case; this has been borne out by research for traffic applications both here and in the United States. Use of full upper-case is primarily a stylistic choice - though as this discussion indicates there are some uses of it in the mistaken belief that is has greater legibility.

 

[WAO]

Road signs are intended to be read from distance so I don’t get your point that upper case is more legible - AIUI it just isn’t.

The road signs are bigger (think motorway) allowing for bigger font sizes. A station sign on a lamp standard isn't but must be read in all lights from angles by older travellers with limited acuity of vision. I'm happy with any case if it is big enough.

WAO

 

[bramling]

I was pretty happy about the reintroduction of a standardized typeface for the rail network. Having now seen some actual examples I think it looks a bit cheap and unsubstantial.

Second all that. For some reason it looks rather tacky. The concept is sound, but some refinement is needed IMO.

 

[Recessio]

I like it, maybe could be a bit bolder but I'll reserve judgement till I see it in the flesh.

As for upper case, I think that should be reserved only for signs like "WARNING" etc., to really help the single-most important/dangerous things stand out.

 

[Non Multi]

Second all that. For some reason it looks rather tacky. The concept is sound, but some refinement is needed IMO.

Reheated mid 20th century Swiss typographic style, complete with pictograms. As we're in the 21st century, it's been designed to suit electronic displays, so the Rail Alphabet 2 looks like a condensed Verdana. Verdana is a sans-serif legibility typeface designed primarily for monitors, although IKEA use it everywhere.

 

[nlogax]

Second all that. For some reason it looks rather tacky. The concept is sound, but some refinement is needed IMO.

Reheated mid 20th century Swiss typographic style, complete with pictograms. As we're in the 21st century, it's been designed to suit electronic displays, so the Rail Alphabet 2 looks like a condensed Verdana. Verdana is a sans-serif legibility typeface designed primarily for monitors, although IKEA use it everywhere.

The weight of it is my biggest issue though to the point raised by @HarryL the spacing is indeed wrong as they are temporary signs so let's see how they look on permanent ones. My concern with designed-for-screen condensed faces such as this one is they tend to look a little lost against sizeable backgrounds.

 

[Tobberz]

Call me a soppy privatisation lover, but it'll be a great shame to leave the GWR branding behind, both on stations and on trains. I truly enjoy GWR's branding on an irrational level, honestly.

 

[185]

Did I see one at Mcr Oxford Road, on platform 4 by the lift, or was that a 30 year old one?

 

[Doomotron]

It’s London Liverpool Street not Liverpool Street

Actually, the station is officially just Liverpool Street. In fact the only London station to actually have London in the name is London Bridge.

 

[BluePenguin]

I am curious to know whether all of the blue signs with white text on are going to be removed? Nearly everywhere from Margate to Weymouth has them, apart from Southern stations which are green

 

[MP393]

Did I see one at Mcr Oxford Road, on platform 4 by the lift, or was that a 30 year old one?

Yes I believe Manchester Oxford Roads are currently being replaced, which is what I came on this thread to post and you beat me too it!

 

[lyndhurst25]

GBR is missing a trick. They should be opening a new Collectors Corner to sell off the thousands of old station signs that they are soon gong to have on their hands!

 

[camflyer]

Actually, the station is officially just Liverpool Street. In fact the only London station to actually have London in the name is London Bridge.

Err... London Fields?

 

[SargeNpton]

Actually, the station is officially just Liverpool Street. In fact the only London station to actually have London in the name is London Bridge.

All London terminal stations were re-named sometime in the 1980s to include London as the prefix. So Liverpool Street is now indeed London Liverpool Street for the National Rail station (but just Liverpool Street for the Underground station).

 

[urbophile]

Actually, the station is officially just Liverpool Street. In fact the only London station to actually have London in the name is London Bridge.

London Fields!

I'm strongly in favour of a standardised style nationwide, but I'm not keen on the Rail Alphabet in black on white. Stylistically I much prefer the elegant sans serif font (which I can't identify) in white on dark blue as used by the Italian state railways (FS). Not that we should copy that, but at least try something different. The Brunel typeface is elegant, readable and not dated.

 

[gallafent]

Err... London Fields?

London Road (Brighton) …

 

[Mat17]

London Road (Manchester)... erm Piccadilly.

 

[Nymanic]

I ondon Fields!

I'm strongly in favour of a standardised style nationwide, but I'm not keen on the Rail Alphabet in black on white. Stylistically I much prefer the elegant sans serif font (which I can't identify) in white on dark blue as used by the Italian state railways (FS). Not that we should copy that, but at least try something different. The Brunel typeface is elegant, readable and not dated.

FS use the Futura typeface - as did East Midlands Trains in some contexts. The bold weighting is pretty clear from a passing train, but the lighter weighting less so. Although the larger size of Italian station signs is a key factor in readability.

I do like Brunel, which has stood the test of time quite admirably. It resembles Frutiger, used by the likes of NS (and the NHS), and on Abellio-era Northern station signs. I'd probably prefer both to the new Rail Alphabet, which is by no means bad, but just seems a little "lacking". It's the enigmatic marriage of smartphone-ready typography (e.g. the Roboto I'm typing this in), and the current political fixation on nostalgism as a cheap vote-winner.

Perhaps I'll be swayed by RA2 over time, but not just yet.

 

[HarryL]

Stylistically I much prefer the elegant sans serif font (which I can't identify) in white on dark blue as used by the Italian state railways (FS). Not that we should copy that, but at least try something different.

Dark blue backgrounds with white text was one of the initial options for the new signage that ultimately didn't get chosen during the public testing.

This article talks through the reason for changing from the current TOC signage, why it was important and how they went about it. It also shows the 3 early concepts near the end, with the black and white and (at the time) New Rail Alphabet option being favoured which was developed further with the new typeface and a lot of refining.

https://thebeautyoftransport.com/20...ayfinding-signage-and-rail-alphabet-2-part-1/

 

[domcoop7]

I think the new style is brilliant, actually. Clear, and does what it says on the tin. It tells you that you are at a railway station and gives you the information needed.

To most people now, and even more so in the future, nobody cares a fig whether they are at a "First Group", station, a "Stagecoach South Western" one, an "Arriva Train Northern", or "Northern Rail (Capita)", or "Northern Rail (DRO)", etc.

We wouldn't change the signs on the M6 in Birmingham to a different colour every time the principal maintenance contractor changed, and then have a different colour scheme when you run into Staffordshire and South Cheshire (and another one for Lancashire / Cumbria / Greater Manchester).

It does the job. It tell the TOCs that no, they can't pour money down the drain every four years on the latest trendy colour scheme, and it gives the signal "this is the national rail network", just like road signs say "this is the national road network".

Mixed case is more readable I believe - research from the early 1960s suggested that people look at the shape of the word first before decoding individual glyphs, and all upper case words have the same shape as each other. Hence the use of mixed case on roadsigns. (You spot the difference straight away if you ever drive in Ireland, where the English language words are in a heavy uppercase font and the signs are cluttered and harder to read).

As for Scotland and Wales, whilst their devolved government TOCs can, and will do, something different (which they were doing anyway before the Review came out, but even if they weren't the "we have to be distinctive from the English" lobby would make sure of), Network Rail will surely follow the national guidelines. Therefore trackside signs, and major stations, will be in Rail Alphabet 2 I'd have thought.

 

[Bletchleyite]

One thing I don't get about RA2 is why the standard UK bus and tram pictograms were not used. The ones they have used are not as clear.