Steam on the Met(rolink)

[507 001]

It's being widely reported on other fora that last nights ballast replenishment train provided by the ELR was hauled by 75008 swiftsure.

These trains are usually hauled by a class 03 or 08.

Rare haulage indeed!

https://www.flickr.com/photo.gne?short=yR7gzK (Not my photo, but an excellent one!)

 

[theshillito]

It's being widely reported on other fora that last nights ballast replenishment train provided by the ELR was hauled by 75008 swiftsure.

These trains are usually hauled by a class 03 or 08.

Rare haulage indeed!

https://www.flickr.com/photo.gne?short=yR7gzK (Not my photo, but an excellent one!)

Now I'm curious whether TFGM/Metrolink would offer track access rights for running heritage trams on their network...not that I have a heritage tram to hand.

 

[tramdan]

Now I'm curious whether TFGM/Metrolink would offer track access rights for running heritage trams on their network...not that I have a heritage tram to hand.

Heritage trams are a very different consideration to a steam locomotive. Firstly, heritage tram speeds are very low indeed (rarely much more than 20km/h) whereas on off street sections Metrolink operate up to 80km/h.

There is also the issue that Metrolink operates a line voltage of 750vDC whereas most heritage trams operate at approximately 550vDC. Blackpool operates a compromise voltage of 600vDC, but even this has caused problems for the heritage fleet.

 

[theshillito]

Heritage trams are a very different consideration to a steam locomotive. Firstly, heritage tram speeds are very low indeed (rarely much more than 20km/h) whereas on off street sections Metrolink operate up to 80km/h.

There is also the issue that Metrolink operates a line voltage of 750vDC whereas most heritage trams operate at approximately 550vDC. Blackpool operates a compromise voltage of 600vDC, but even this has caused problems for the heritage fleet.

Ahh I see. I suppose being hauled by either a 750vDC/diesel/steam would be the options, and then I doubt they would like heavy rail on the Metrolink rails...

 

[tramdan]

Ahh I see. I suppose being hauled by either a 750vDC/diesel/steam would be the options, and then I doubt they would like heavy rail on the Metrolink rails...

Indeed, heavy rail rolling stock would also be very unlikely to be permitted during regular service hours, and there isn't a lot of time between those on Metrolink!

While heritage operation on a modern tramway is a nice idea, the reality is that with the exception of the upgraded Blackpool tramway, modern systems are just too different in their design and specification from first generation systems to make any operation feasible.

 

[Trainfan344]

Prehaps we could have the old metrolink stock run? that's heritage now..

 

[507 001]

If you can find a T68 that will power up......

 

[Crossover]

Prehaps we could have the old metrolink stock run? that's heritage now..

They did that last year as part of the Farewell tour...whilst they still had some life in them

If you can find a T68 that will power up......

That too!

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

If you can find a T68 that will power up......

Was one of those intended to go to the Heaton Park tramway....or am I confusing that with something else?

 

[bluegoblin7]

Was one of those intended to go to the Heaton Park tramway....or am I confusing that with something else?

1007 has passed to the Heaton Park Tramway, although hasn't yet moved there.

 

[Crossover]

Was one of those intended to go to the Heaton Park tramway....or am I confusing that with something else?

1007 has passed to the Heaton Park Tramway, although hasn't yet moved there.

Has it actually got there yet, or is it still in one of the Metrolink depots currently?

 

[bluegoblin7]

Has it actually got there yet, or is it still in one of the Metrolink depots currently?

1007 has passed to the Heaton Park Tramway, although hasn't yet moved there.

As I said.

 

[STEVIEBOY1]

It's being widely reported on other fora that last nights ballast replenishment train provided by the ELR was hauled by 75008 swiftsure.

These trains are usually hauled by a class 03 or 08.

Rare haulage indeed!

https://www.flickr.com/photo.gne?short=yR7gzK (Not my photo, but an excellent one!)

Wow, that's amazing, very good to see, I wonder how it came about, using steam rather than diesel?

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Quite simply, the 03 was unavailable, the steam locomotive was and the contract doesn't specify what traction is used - all that matters is that it's in gauge, meets the axle load limits and the train runs when and where it should.

 

[WatcherZero]

Probably shows its time Metrolink invested in more track maintenence vehicles, theyve tripled the size of the network and still have only one spv, though they have a couple of road/rail trucks and white vans.

 

[tramdan]

Has it actually got there yet, or is it still in one of the Metrolink depots currently?

It is currently sitting at Trafford depot. When I visited earlier this year it was inside the workshop powered down. Two other T68s and T68a 2001 were also stabled outside and had a distinctly damp smell inside them, with puddles on the floor in places. I think 1007 is being kept inside to avoid it deteriorating as they have.

 

[Crossover]

It is currently sitting at Trafford depot. When I visited earlier this year it was inside the workshop powered down. Two other T68s and T68a 2001 were also stabled outside and had a distinctly damp smell inside them, with puddles on the floor in places. I think 1007 is being kept inside to avoid it deteriorating as they have.

But leaky then! I wonder why the other remaining units remain at Trafford and haven't followed their sisters...

 

[tramdan]

But leaky then! I wonder why the other remaining units remain at Trafford and haven't followed their sisters...

No idea, although as the other 5 T68As have now been scrapped, 2001 is unique so possibly someone has preservation aspirations for it? I did hear that one of the other T68s (ie. in addition to 1007) is earmarked for an as yet unnamed heritage tramway. There is a lot of uncertainty and rumours floating around at the moment with regards to these vehicles.

 

[bluegoblin7]

No idea, although as the other 5 T68As have now been scrapped, 2001 is unique so possibly someone has preservation aspirations for it? I did hear that one of the other T68s (ie. in addition to 1007) is earmarked for an as yet unnamed heritage tramway. There is a lot of uncertainty and rumours floating around at the moment with regards to these vehicles.

2001 is unique, but I'm not aware of any intention to preserve it. It has been retained as a large amount of money was spent on returning it to service (basically a complete rewire by Bombardier) a few years ago, so it still has residual value left in it. There was talk that it could be used as a works tram.

1020 is also still extant, but there's no public plans for it.

The only one with a confirmed future is 1007, which will at some point be making the journey to the Heaton Park Tramway in Manchester.

 

[STEVIEBOY1]

As well as these Metrolink engineering works being helped by steam loco. is it true that elsewhere in the UK, there are still some movements in a heavy industrial area, possibly mining or iron/steel, that are also being operated by steam. I presume shunting wagons etc? I heard about this on a rail trip recently, but was unable at the time to follow it up?

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Only on preserved lines; true industrial steam use finished in the early 1980s I'm afraid. I think a colliery or two in wales were the last ones. Mountain Ash maybe?

 

[Hornet]

Only on preserved lines; true industrial steam use finished in the early 1980s I'm afraid. I think a colliery or two in wales were the last ones. Mountain Ash maybe?

I believe Brynlliw Colliery was operating Steam until it's closure in c.1982. It was the only time, apart from Slough Trading Estate, that I saw Steam working outside of the preserved arena.

https://www.google.ie/search?q=bryn...QsAQ4CmoVChMIjryU887ByAIVQtYaCh1vTQpg&dpr=0.9

 

[507 001]

Probably shows its time Metrolink invested in more track maintenence vehicles, theyve tripled the size of the network and still have only one spv, though they have a couple of road/rail trucks and white vans.

Why? Why pay for the maintenance etc of such a vehicle when it is just as easy to bring something in from outside?

2001 is unique, but I'm not aware of any intention to preserve it. It has been retained as a large amount of money was spent on returning it to service (basically a complete rewire by Bombardier) a few years ago, so it still has residual value left in it. There was talk that it could be used as a works tram.

1020 is also still extant, but there's no public plans for it.

The only one with a confirmed future is 1007, which will at some point be making the journey to the Heaton Park Tramway in Manchester.

There are plans for the three remaining T68s,

2001 has something planned for it, but nobody will tell me what.
1020 is supposed to be going to a heritage tramway
1023 (which can apparently power up (or at least it could do when it was put there...) also has something planned, but again nobody will say what.


Although, even if they had I wouldn't be able to say anything.......

 

[181]

Only on preserved lines; true industrial steam use finished in the early 1980s I'm afraid. I think a colliery or two in wales were the last ones. Mountain Ash maybe?

I don't have a citation for this, but I thought it lasted a bit further into the 1980s (to my regret I never saw any). Near the beginning of this programme from 1988 there is a steam loco at Castle Donington power station, although I suppose it could have been steamed specially for the camera. I seem to remember reading that Glaxo at Ulverston had a fireless locomotive in at least occasional use until 1991; here it is in 1984.

There have of course been various special events involving steam locomotives at industrial sites, for example this. There was a brief usage of steam in Northern Ireland (a bit like the Metrolink operation, but longer-lasting) more recently than you might expect. But the nearest regular 'real' steam is now in Germany (fireless) or Bosnia (coal-burning) -- see http://www.internationalsteam.co.uk/.

 

[WatcherZero]

Why? Why pay for the maintenance etc of such a vehicle when it is just as easy to bring something in from outside?

Would likely be cheaper in the long run, more flexibility on scheduling, could run across the whole network rather than being limited to the Bury or Altrincham lines, no need to book in advance and use heritage crews and if you had it around you would have justification to use it more frequently as opposed to having to justify the cost of hiring in.

Also worth noting the Steam train ran because the intended booked vehicle wasn't available.

 

[Shrimper]

Would likely be cheaper in the long run, more flexibility on scheduling, could run across the whole network rather than being limited to the Bury or Altrincham lines, no need to book in advance and use heritage crews and if you had it around you would have justification to use it more frequently as opposed to having to justify the cost of hiring in.

It wouldn't though - tampers, ballast wagons etc would be completely unable to run through the city centre so you'd have to double up with suitable items at both depots.

Ballasting and heavy maintenance doesn't just happen on a whim, it will be scheduled weeks, months if not years in some cases; but once done it may be months before anything further is required. If you have a connection to a suitable facility which can do what you need on an as-required basis, why wouldn't you use it?

 

[WatcherZero]

They've run through the city center perfectly fine with the trailer for the existing SPV filled with ballast or sleepers. Though mostly seems to do wiring maintenance and ferrying supplies for points/cracked rail replacement these days.

Crane for OHLE work
http://i985.photobucket.com/albums/ae333/freel07/Metrolink/P1020740_zps30baf1dc.jpg

Bags of Ballast to be loaded
http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6130/5919904854_13c8858d12_z.jpg

http://www.philt.org.uk/Industrial/Ind-DE/i-LrgKNp9/1/L/locob-L.jpg

http://www.philt.org.uk/Industrial/Ind-DE/i-CsXGHKF/1/L/locod-L.jpg

 

[Shrimper]

Yes, the SPV can run through the streets; and it can take a few of bags of ballast, but not in the quantities a rake of heavy rail ballast wagons can.

I notice that Trafford had a mountain of ballast bags which have migrated from the depot to various points on the Altrincham line; most moved by hired in road rail vehicles rather than the SPV.

 

[507 001]

Yes, the SPV can run through the streets; and it can take a few of bags of ballast, but not in the quantities a rake of heavy rail ballast wagons can.

I notice that Trafford had a mountain of ballast bags which have migrated from the depot to various points on the Altrincham line; most moved by hired in road rail vehicles rather than the SPV.

The SPV can only run through the city under a possession IIRC

 

[34D]

Why? Why pay for the maintenance etc of such a vehicle when it is just as easy to bring something in from outside?



There are plans for the three remaining T68s,

2001 has something planned for it, but nobody will tell me what.
1020 is supposed to be going to a heritage tramway
1023 (which can apparently power up (or at least it could do when it was put there...) also has something planned, but again nobody will say what.


Although, even if they had I wouldn't be able to say anything.......

Weren't they being kept to run de-icing trains through the night?

If so, we might see them in action quite soon?