Step 3 confirmed for 17th May

[NorthOxonian]

Indeed - continuing with the 'divide and rule' tactics we've seen all along, we can turn on each other and not direct our anger where it should be going.

Also this wave of propaganda against the unvaccinated, stirring up fear and anger and 'othering' them, is going to be an oh-so-convenient hook for Michael Gove to roll-out his domestic vaccine passports in a few weeks time.

I can imagine quite a worrying scenario playing out. The variant could well be used as an excuse for delaying easing until all adults have been offered the vaccine. At that point, the government might turn round and ease everything but implement vaccine passports. They still get to be the knights in shining armour who saved the summer to much media fanfare, but they also get their pet project in.

After all, if they want to roll out vaccine passports they'll find it much easier to do this after all adults have been offered the vaccine. I seem to recall a poll from a while back showing a 15 point increase in public support for passports if they're done after that point, any legality issues around indirect age discrimination wouldn't apply, and it would be less likely to inflame tensions among young people. Delaying it slightly also gives them time to actually finish the app, since as I understand it the technology has taken longer to develop than they expected.

 

[bramling]

I can imagine quite a worrying scenario playing out. The variant could well be used as an excuse for delaying easing until all adults have been offered the vaccine. At that point, the government might turn round and ease everything but implement vaccine passports. They still get to be the knights in shining armour who saved the summer to much media fanfare, but they also get their pet project in.

After all, if they want to roll out vaccine passports they'll find it much easier to do this after all adults have been offered the vaccine. I seem to recall a poll from a while back showing a 15 point increase in public support for passports if they're done after that point, any legality issues around indirect age discrimination wouldn't apply, and it would be less likely to inflame tensions among young people. Delaying it slightly also gives them time to actually finish the app, since as I understand it the technology has taken longer to develop than they expected.

Apart from the fact I object to being coerced into taking any vaccine, if anything the worse aspect of vaccine passports is having to flash it every time one wants to enter somewhere. What a horrible way of life that would be.

 

[Jonny]

The Daily Mail front page is suggesting that both Tory MPs and Ministers are warning Johnson not to delay easing, although more because of those not taking the vaccine than the Indian variant. The article also compares Johnson and June 21st to Theresa May and March 2019, which was the Brexit deadline that never was, suggesting missing June 21st would be his "Theresa May moment", which could be a recipe for his marching orders, especially if all the stats (bar infections maybe) are looking positive.

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I think I have mentioned Section 45E earlier on the thread, but for an announcement that rules (with the possible exception of premises closures) are being continued due to people declining to be vaccinated would likely constitute a breach of that so as to invalidate those rules.

 

[Pete_uk]

Oh god they still on about these covid passports??

 

[chris11256]

Oh god they still on about these covid passports??

If anything I’d say this new variant gives them a new lease of life. It feels like the government is 2-3 steps away from panicking itself back into lockdown. Perhaps vaccine passports are the way for June 21 to still go ahead provided you’ve been jabbed.

 

[yorksrob]

I can see how this one will be spun out of - it will all be the fault of people who have declined to be vaccinated. Correct me if I’m wrong, but I thought the health establishment was saying the spread is among young people - who presumably in most cases won’t have been offered a vaccine yet?

But this will prove a convenient response to the “why did Boris let people enter the country” line, which is certainly building momentum.

Yes, everything will be thrown into deflecting the blame towards the population.

 

[island]

How anyone can claim Wembley is inside I will never know.

What will be interesting in future times when Councils say what ever you are attesting to do has to be indoors and say your proposed venue isn't when in Covid times they said it was.

I can't quite think of an example but I'm sure there will be one.

Nobody ever claimed Wembley was indoors, although anywhere under the roof probably does qualify under the legal definition. But many of the stadia which have been hosting permitted events have made mask-wearing a condition of entry to be extra-safe/make people feel safe/virtue-signal for the TV cameras (delete as appropriate). I passed the London Stadium and they were requiring masks from the security checkpoint onwards.

If this turns out to be the case, Boris had better start brushing up on his after dinner speaking, because I can't see him coming back from this.

He has survived far, far worse.

I think I have mentioned Section 45E earlier on the thread, but for an announcement that rules (with the possible exception of premises closures) are being continued due to people declining to be vaccinated would likely constitute a breach of that so as to invalidate those rules.

That suggestion is extremely fanciful. “You can’t do X unless you’re vaccinated” is not equivalent to “you must be vaccinated” (unless, perhaps, X is something everybody does and has a right to do regularly, such as leave their home). There is no possibility that continuation of the current rules could be considered mandatory vaccination.

 

[DelayRepay]

Nobody ever claimed Wembley was indoors, although anywhere under the roof probably does qualify under the legal definition. But many of the stadia which have been hosting permitted events have made mask-wearing a condition of entry to be extra-safe/make people feel safe/virtue-signal for the TV cameras (delete as appropriate). I passed the London Stadium and they were requiring masks from the security checkpoint onwards.

Isn't it the case that some events have required masks, whilst others have not, as part of the government's pilot events programme?

So, hopefully, we might finally get an answer as to whether there is any benefit or not.

 

[yorksrob]

He has survived far, far worse.

I don't know. In some ways, the consequences of previous errors have been far worse, but there'a an element of it being unprecedented - us not knowing so much about the virus and the Government being caught between a rock and a hard place.

Allowing such unrestricted travel between here and India at a time when infection rates there were increasing substantially seems like a failure to learn from past mistakes, not exercising the same level of caution that they exercise when it comes to our own freedoms and squandering the gains and efforts of the vaccine programme.

 

[Yew]

Allowing such unrestricted travel between here and India at a time when infection rates there were increasing substantially seems like a failure to learn from past mistakes,

Given that most pre pandemic scientific advice was that border controls are useless, this is less about effectiveness, and more about the perception being 'tough' on the virus (read as 'people heading home for funerals')

There is no miracle public health intervention, and anyone who says they have one, be they masks, lockdowns, test and trace, border controls, is selling you snake oil. Let's trust real, evidence-based science, and the vaccines.

 

[Bantamzen]

I don't know. In some ways, the consequences of previous errors have been far worse, but there'a an element of it being unprecedented - us not knowing so much about the virus and the Government being caught between a rock and a hard place.

Allowing such unrestricted travel between here and India at a time when infection rates there were increasing substantially seems like a failure to learn from past mistakes, not exercising the same level of caution that they exercise when it comes to our own freedoms and squandering the gains and efforts of the vaccine programme.

Given that most pre pandemic scientific advice was that border controls are useless, this is less about effectiveness, and more about the perception being 'tough' on the virus (read as 'people heading home for funerals')

There is no miracle public health intervention, and anyone who says they have one, be they masks, lockdowns, test and trace, border controls, is selling you snake oil. Let's trust real, evidence-based science, and the vaccines.

Lets also not forget that a lot of this travel would have been from UK citizens, we are not in the business of denying our citizens the rights to travel home. Its bad enough us dragging our feet in helping countries like India with their problems, let alone dumping tens of thousands more on them that we refuse to come back.

But as @Yew rightly says, this whole snapping borders shut is a red herring. We don't have the option to do this, and neither do most countries. This "variant fear" needs to come to an end now, we are going in the right direction.